It's Time to Shut Down Byron Buxton

Just now, chpettit19 said:

But you've been saying that the last 30 games and they still haven't fallen out of the race. This division is awful. The Twins should be getting multiple players back in September. Maybe they'll come to life like the 2009 and 2010 teams and chase down the division title. Maybe they won't. But why would we ever want to give up on a season with over a month to go when they're only 2 games out? I'm not predicting a WS title. Not even a playoff win. But why just throw in the towel in August?

I think the difference is perspective.  You are hoping the team starts playing better than they have the last 80 games.  Those guys coming back better get back soon, and better contribute ALOT from the moment they get back, or they could be much farther behind by Sept 8.  They are only 2 games back, but they are moving in the wrong direction.  They are not getting better, they are getting worse, game by game.

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Do you look at Buxton and see someone who isn't following a good conditioning plan? There's a number of articles out there that you can find about his running routine during the offseason to keep his speed and stay in shape. Buxton works his tail off. Somebody doesn't have to have failed at something for them to be injury prone. Sometimes their bodies just weren't meant to do the things professional athletes do with their bodies. Sucks, but it happens. There's no reason to believe Buxton's injuries have anything to do with lack of effort on his part.

Maybe running isn't the method of conditioning he needs to be doing?  I have no suggestions because I'm not a medical professional nor do I have access to his medical files.  For all I know, he might benefit more from yoga or Tai Chi.  Just looking fit and trim (which sounds like a low-fat yogurt) does not necessarily mean you are in top condition.

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You're asking them to shutdown their best player for no reason other than you don't want him to get hurt when they aren't going to make the playoffs. You don't call that giving up? What do you call it when you suggest not playing your best player even though they could play?

Buxton has been playing throughout the last 80 games, but things are still moving in the wrong direction.  At this point he is not healthy enough to carry this team.  Let him play, but at the end of Sept it probably won't matter.

Just now, Cody Pirkl said:

FWIW I wrote this prior to him being put on the IL which is what I wanted to see over them just sitting him for a day or 2 and sending him back out. 

The difference between the entire season of managing him and now is how bad he looked on Monday. They can't let him continue getting to that point, and if they're out of it by the time he's eligible to be back, there's no reason to risk it.

and that might be the case

I don't think most here are saying it's a bad idea to shut Buxton down if that is whats necessary, but lets wait and see what his medicals call for. I also believe that if he can play threw the pain without risking further injury then yes, he should play. Simply put, these guys " ARE " paid to play, and being only 2 or 3 back in this division doesn't make winning it unthinkable.

Also, what makes you think they'll be drastically better next season? I see a ton of potential but no guarentees that our pitching will improve or our hitting will get any better. I believe you play to win this season until they are out of contention. All of this wait til next year stuff and we become the Vikings.

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

It might not matter. But that wasn't your stance. Your stance was that it wouldn't matter so don't even risk it. My stance is to give them a shot with their best players. Now if his hip is never good enough to come back this year then none of this even matters. But if they're still mathematically in the race when he's healthy again I'd bring him back and see what he can do. 

I frankly don't care either way if he plays at this point.  He is on the 10 day IL right now, and who knows how long it will actually be before he returns(based on his history).  I expect him to play again this season. if the FO determines he is healthy enough.  All I'm saying is it won't matter.  He has not been able to carry this team at any point this season, and he won't save this season unless he is firing on all cylinders.  Even then, it probably won't be enough.

aaaaaaaannnnddd the part many people here are ignoring is they just shut Buxton down for 8 days after 7/17. He either strained his hip or significantly aggravated what was a sore hip and made his way to the 10 day IL, but I'll tell you this much... a true hip strain will likely keep Buxton out until mid September at least. So the people hoping and praying for the Twins to have their best player collecting dust on a shelf during the most important stretch of the season are getting their wish.

20 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

My point is they don't even need to play drastically better to be in the fight. They haven't been good for 80 games yet they're still only 2 games back. That's the point. They don't need to have Buxton, Correa, and Polanco turn into MVPs or have Larnach come back and blast 12 homeruns in 3 weeks to win the division. They aren't playing well. Not arguing that at all. They're still in the fight, though. So why shutdown your best player in the name of 2023 when you blindly hope they'll be better than 2 games out by August 23rd?

Considering the games left against teams as good or better than the Twins, I think Buxton, Correa, and Polanco will need to play like all stars.  We cannot beat good teams unless they do.

9 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

aaaaaaaannnnddd the part many people here are ignoring is they just shut Buxton down for 8 days after 7/17. He either strained his hip or significantly aggravated what was a sore hip and made his way to the 10 day IL, but I'll tell you this much... a true hip strain will likely keep Buxton out until mid September at least. So the people hoping and praying for the Twins to have their best player collecting dust on a shelf during the most important stretch of the season are getting their wish.

And again, by Sept 8, they could be out of it for all practical matters..  Mathematically out of it means nothing.  6 games out with 12-15 left is out of it in my book.

3 hours ago, Dman said:

It might me time to shut him down but when a player has incentive clauses in his contract that becomes a tougher decision for both sides.  Shutting him down might be the right thing to do but I don't think they will do it.

15 minutes ago, SanoMustGo said:

And again, by Sept 8, they could be out of it for all practical matters..  Mathematically out of it means nothing.  6 games out with 12-15 left is out of it in my book.

If all their best players are at home on the sofa, there's a pretty good chance of that, isn't there? 

16 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

How do you know this isn't the same thing that kept him out for those 8 days in July?

Shutting him down because he's unable to play is quite different than just shutting him down to save him for 2023.

Feel free to read my post any time you want before creating a strawman.

1 hour ago, wsnydes said:

Shutting Buxton down is folding the season.  As abyssal as the offense has been with him, it doesn't take much imagination to see what it'll be without him.  If they wouldn't shut him down earlier to deal with his lingering issues, doing it now doesn't make much sense if the goal is still a playoff push.  And if the goal wasn't a playoff push in the first place, why wasn't he shut down earlier?

It depends on why you were shutting him down. If he truly is not gonna hurt himself any further by playing then let him play. If he’s risking more serious injury by playing then shut him down. We’ll see where things are at in 10 days I guess.

Does anyone really believe that shutting him down now will impact his 2023 health at all? If so, why?? He’s going to be hurt every single year…and he’s going to miss significant time every single year. There’s zero history to suggest otherwise no matter what you do with him now. Zero.

If he can play, play him. If not, don’t.

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

The 2009 and 2010 Twins teams were both more than 5 games out going into September and both made the playoffs. Why are we giving up on a team in August?

This isn't even half true. The 09 team started September 3.5 games out of first. The 2010 team was leading the division by 4 games on September 1.

This team is terrible. Absolutely no point pushing Buck. This team is more lethargic than some of those god-awful mid 2010s teams that had a fraction of the talent. I hope they clean house this off-season (on the field and off).

Give him 15 days off. Check him out, if he can play ok. If not shut him down completely. Others will have to pick up the slack.

I believe if Buck can physically get out there, he will play. The bigger issue is, will he contribute enough to make a difference? He really isn't our 'best player' if you look at his overall performance. He should be our best player. In fact many touted him as one of the best players in MLB before season started....IF..he stayed healthy.

He didn't. His situational hitting has really taken a nosedive. His defensive skills have been short circuited to an extent because of his fragile body not allowing him to do the things that continue to astound us all. He has killed his share of rallies with k's with the best of them this year.

My best guess is he is out for 2 weeks. By then Twins may know whether its worth rushing him back. If they are under .500 and more than 5 games behind, they will need to re-evaluate their options. Twins should ALWAYS be a better team with Buxton in the lineup. For the better part of the first half, that was very true. Not so much anymore. And I just have to think that the reason for his less than stellar season at the plate is that he has played the entire year hurt. And the compound effect of the daily grind has caught up with him.

Meantime, the Twins are sinking slowly like the setting sun, and it certainly isn't all buxton's doing. But he is an accomplice.

8 hours ago, ashbury said:

It's Time to Shut Down Tim Beckham

 

/ if you ask me

 

Jake Cave has nothing left. He can go with him. Emilio would be a popular choice also. There must be something wrong somewhere. 

Right knee, hip. Buxton is not going to hit well with no base. I don’t know if Buxton has lost flexibility or if he works too hard and these are overuse injuries. Tendinitis in the knee would normally be the patellar tendon. He could hit, but not run. The hip could be compensating for the knee. But really I don’t know because I haven’t seen either the patient or the diagnostician (the smartest person in the room who is hopefully smart enough to figure it out)

Of course it is. - time to shut him down.?

Why would we expect our best player to play when we are battling for a playoff spot? I hate this type of attitude and hate this type of post. Give up basically is what you are saying. 

There's a reason for the 18 straight playoff losses. This type of attitude is it. Kirby Puckett, ask him if you could shut him down with some nagging injuries in a playoff race. How about Dan Gladden? Think Jack Morris would have been shut down with some shoulder tightness?

I get it, we want him for next year. But that is a ways off. Play now, rest later.