It's Time to Shut Down Byron Buxton

18 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

They need to come up with a good conditioning plan for him.  Surgeries are one thing but conditioning is huge when trying to prevent injuries.  I know totally different sport but but gymnastics is a sport where all parts of the body can take a good pounding everyday.  They practice 20 hours a week but at least 5 hours of that is pure conditioning.  Good core strength is the key.  

Do you look at Buxton and see someone who isn't following a good conditioning plan? There's a number of articles out there that you can find about his running routine during the offseason to keep his speed and stay in shape. Buxton works his tail off. Somebody doesn't have to have failed at something for them to be injury prone. Sometimes their bodies just weren't meant to do the things professional athletes do with their bodies. Sucks, but it happens. There's no reason to believe Buxton's injuries have anything to do with lack of effort on his part.

1. Buxton is now on the 10 day IL so your wishes have come true. Hip strain.

2. Why do we assume the team, and, more importantly, Byron himself, haven't been doing what is medically right for him this entire season? Do we think Byron, and the team, are being told he needs to shut it down or he's risking his career? Or do we think they're being told playing on it is purely about pain tolerance and the only risk for long-term damage is the same as the risk everyone else faces because of the type of injury he's dealing with? I'd assume the Twins want Byron around for the entirety of his contract, and I'd assume Byron wants to continue playing major league baseball for the entirety of his contract. Why do we think they're ignoring things and pushing him harder than doctors who've actually seen his medical reports say they should push him? Why can't we just accept that everyone involved want what's best for Byron to perform at a high level for the next 6 years and they're doing what they should be doing? They've told us time and again that shutting him down won't fix his knee, but playing on it won't hurt it more. Why can't we just let that be the answer for this season?

15 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

A little slump?  Byron has been taking hitting results right next to Correa for the past nearly 3 months.  At least Buxton has an injury excuse.  Correa not so much.  Buxton over eight years now is hurt.  Hurt a lot.  It's part of what he is.  It isn't likely to change.  But here we have people worried that our " best player" being on IL for 10 days is going to ruin the Twins chances.  Let's get serious.  Of the 10 games missed he would have only played 6 or 7 of those games anyway.  He and Correa are battling out to see who is the biggest flop since June 1.  I vote Correa as the bigger flop but Buxton has been no prize.  He has hit 28 Homer's and plays a good center field.  He is poor at hitting in the clutch and is totally unreliable for play.  Yes I wish Buxton didn't have to go on IL but his lack of production over the past couple of months will make it a mute point.  If the team does not win the division it's not going to fall on Buxton.  There's a lot to go around.

Since June 1 (date you suggested he's been bad since) Byron Buxton has hit 17 HRs (tied for 9th in all of baseball in that time frame), and had a triple slash of .236/.323/.552 which is good for a 149 wRC+. If being 49% better than the average major league hitter is not just a "little slump," but something much worse than that, as you suggest, I can't even imagine how good he is when he isn't in a massive slump.

Just now, Cody Pirkl said:

My point is I think the team and his body have reached the point where whatever procedure he needs done should probably just be done. He could barely walk last night and if guys like Correa and Polanco aren't going to do their jobs then there's nothing the Twins can do with or without Buxton that'll get them into the playoffs

Do you have quotes from team officials, or Buxton himself, saying he'll need a procedure? What is the knee injury he's suffering from, and what is the procedure that fixes it? My point is you don't know that he'll need a procedure, or that he's risking an ACL injury (as you suggest without any basis from what I can see) by simply playing through the current pain. My point is none of us are doctors who have seen his medicals, thus have no basis to assume any of the things you're assuming.

The people who have far more invested in his health than any of us have decided the best thing for him, and the team, this year and into the future was to play CF sparingly and DH on most other days. Why can't we just assume at the very least Byron has enough self preservation desire that he wouldn't risk next season, or his career, by playing through something he shouldn't? Instead you assume you know more about how his knee should be handled than the doctors paid to know such things.

1 minute ago, Cody Pirkl said:

I think its probably safe to assume when they say "time off won't fix it" that it's going to require some kind of surgical procedure. And in regards to further injury, again, go back and watch him last night. He's running around on one leg which is how further injury happens.

I don't think its that much of a stretch to draw these conclusions based on the info we have available. 

Buxton is playing through tendinitis in his knee (according to Do-Hyoung Park). Surgery is absolutely not a safe assumption as tendinitis is rarely treated with surgery. Now it's completely possible that he does end up having a debridement procedure during the offseason, but it shouldn't just be assumed.  "Time off won't fix it" isn't their stance. "If it's going to be something if he took significant time off, would he just be dealing with the same symptoms within a few games of returning? That's possible, too," is their stance. Their stance is that a 10 day IL stint won't be enough to fix it and he needs far more time off than that to do the therapies to get it right, without surgery, so putting him on the 10 day IL wouldn't help his knee situation enough to matter as he'd still be playing through pain when he came back.

His hip flared up last night and changed the situation. The hip isn't something he can play through and he needed to go on the IL for it. When the situation called for it they shut him down. Just like I'd think the assumption should be. When shutting it down is in the best interest of everyone involved (team and player) they shut the player down. I just don't get why we'd think any team, or player, would be actively going against what the medical professionals say is the best.

Or why a team should give up on a season on August 23rd when they're 2 games back with 17 games left against the 2 teams they're battling for the division title.

1 minute ago, SanoMustGo said:

I have a feeling when we get to those games against the Sox and Cle at the end of the season we will be more than 2 games back.  And, unless this team shows us something they have not since, early June, there is no point in pushing Buxton.  If we get swept by Houston this team will be on a 35-45 stretch.  Which is half a season worth of games. Frankly I think the goose will be cooked by the end of the Yankee series.

Luckily for the sports world your feeling doesn't decide who gets to make the playoffs in any given league. And hopefully, for Twins fans in general, the team doesn't agree with your and Cody's assessments and decide to just go home before September even starts.

4 minutes ago, Cody Pirkl said:

I just don't get the attitude behind everything you've posted like it's the dumbest idea ever for a team to shut down their star long term asset who's been injured all season when the team is sinking like a stone. I think theyll be much better in 2023 and would like him there for that. If you'd prefer they bring him back in 10 days no matter what and aggressively play him until he pulls up looking like he did last night or worse that's totally fine, agree to disagree.

I don't get the attitude behind shutting down your star player when the doctors say there's no reason to. My point is you have no reason to believe he's risking greater injury. Everything the team has said all season long is that he's not risking greater injury by playing on his knee. Thus your argument shouldn't just be for Buxton, but should be for Polanco, Arraez, Miranda, Gordon, Mahle, Gray, Ryan, Duran, and everyone else on the team with more control beyond this year since they all risk blowing out a knee every time they step on the field just like Buxton does.

Yes, I want them to play him as much as he can play while they're fighting for a playoff spot. I'm sorry I haven't given up on the season on August 23rd with the hope they will be drastically better in 2023. If they're not drastically better next year what month should they shut him down in? July? Have to make sure he doesn't blow out a knee in early August in case they're drastically better in 2024.

1 minute ago, Cody Pirkl said:

My point exactly. I wrote this prior to him going on the IL and I just didn't want to see them rest him for a day or 2 and send him back out given how rough he looked yesterday. They basically bought themselves 10 days at this point. If the team plays as poorly as they have been they could be 5+ games out of 1st at which point there's no reason to bring him back if he's not 100%.

The 2009 and 2010 Twins teams were both more than 5 games out going into September and both made the playoffs. Why are we giving up on a team in August?

Just now, SanoMustGo said:

All I'm saying is I have seen nothing the past 80 games that makes me believe this team has anything left.  If the team was healthy and guys performing, it would be different.  This team the way it is will not be good enough to have any real success against any of the teams listed above.  Those teams are just flat out better than the Twins in their current state.   And weather the team agrees with my sentiment won't make them play any better.  You may have a different assessment, but they are based on fact, not hope or lack there of.

But you've been saying that the last 30 games and they still haven't fallen out of the race. This division is awful. The Twins should be getting multiple players back in September. Maybe they'll come to life like the 2009 and 2010 teams and chase down the division title. Maybe they won't. But why would we ever want to give up on a season with over a month to go when they're only 2 games out? I'm not predicting a WS title. Not even a playoff win. But why just throw in the towel in August?

Shutting Buxton down is folding the season.  As abyssal as the offense has been with him, it doesn't take much imagination to see what it'll be without him.  If they wouldn't shut him down earlier to deal with his lingering issues, doing it now doesn't make much sense if the goal is still a playoff push.  And if the goal wasn't a playoff push in the first place, why wasn't he shut down earlier?

Just now, SanoMustGo said:

No one is giving up, we are just looking at the make up of the team and being realistic.  The 2009 and 2010 teams would destroy the team taking the field tonight.

You're asking them to shutdown their best player for no reason other than you don't want him to get hurt when they aren't going to make the playoffs. You don't call that giving up? What do you call it when you suggest not playing your best player even though they could play?