Miranda Mania: 3 Ways To Get Him To Minneapolis

chpettit19 · August 23, 2021

Certainly don't want Simmons back next year, but pitching is why the Twins failed this year and now that they have young guys up I think keeping Simmons for his glove alone makes sense for the rest of this season. Let those young arms build confidence with their best SS option behind them instead of having 4 negative fielders behind them (assuming Donaldson DHs as is being suggested here). Making your young pitchers get 4 outs in half their innings because you have Miranda, Polanco, Arraez, and Sano behind them is more harmful to the 2022 Twins than having Miranda stay in AAA for a "playoff" run and keeping Simmons on the Twins. Help your young pitchers build confidence going into 2022.

I'd love to see Miranda get his feet wet this year and make his debut with sky high confidence during the best hitting season of his life, but I think there's legit reasons he isn't up. I don't think he's being wasted in St Paul, and think there's something to be gained from him playing in competitive games during a "playoff" push and leading the team during the "playoffs." I don't think the experience of playing in pressure situations in St Paul this year instead of playing in meaningless games in Minneapolis is a complete waste. He doesn't get to face ML pitching, but he's learning to excel under pressure (hopefully).

Also a lot of underselling of current Twins position players in this thread. If you don't like what Donaldson is doing for the money he's being paid you really shouldn't ever ask for the Twins to sign big name FAs ever again. He's missed a little time with health problems, but people make it sound like he's Buxton playing 35% of games or something. He's going to play in 120ish games (not ideal, but not crazy). He's got an OPS+ of 123 and wRC+ of 118. His defense has slid some, but he's still the second best infield glove we have. The Twins are getting what they paid for. This is what you get from most big name FA signings. Reference point: Manny Machado (significantly younger, and on a much longer and more expensive deal) has an OPS+ of 130 and wRC+ of 121. His defense is still really good as he's much younger and hasn't seen his athleticism decline, but offensively he's putting up quite similar numbers for even more money.

Karbo · August 23, 2021

Keep Miranda in St. Paul until the Saints are done playing. Let the guy have experience playing in the playoffs. It may be an important step for his future. The Twins are going nowhere so his presence in the lineup really means nothing.

chopper0080 · August 23, 2021

I get frustrated by messing with guys who are running hot.

-If you bring up Miranda, keep him at 3B where he is comfortable. See what he can do on the big stage for 30 days.

-Don't mess with Polanco right now. Leave him at 2B. Polanco at 2B is like the one thing I think we can count on as a positive heading into next year.

-The rest of it are just details IMO. 1B and DH and LF are just details. Figure them out between Simmons, Arraez, Donaldson and Sano. (and Rooker and Cave I guess)

4twinsJA · August 23, 2021

Immediate gratification is what many want. It is an ugly look. Miranda's OPS at AAA is not really any different than Rooker's, Celestino's or Cave's at AAA this year. I have not heard one bit of reasoning why one should expect anything out of Miranda when others with the same OPS this year have failed miserably on the MLB level this year

How about higher BA for Miranda, low K rate. Basically same stats when went up level, AA to AAA. I am sure there is more. OPS is not the ultimate stat to predict success. Rooker is a completely different batter, very power centered-all or nothing, Celestino should not had been at MLB level was not ready, Cave had his time and has regresssed. What I like about Miranda is not found in stat sheet, he seems to raise the performance of others on the team. Saints bats took off when Miranda arrived.

Mike Sixel · August 23, 2021

19 hours ago, Rosterman said:

C'mon, this is so easy. Miranda is a third baseman. You add an infielder, you subtract an infielder. Donaldson is playing DH now, it seems.

You want Arraez to play everyday. Put him at second, Play Polanco at short. Have Miranda play third. See how the last 30+ games go.

You cut loose Simmons. Maybe a team sees defensive strength, and he gets on a playoff roster. They claim him, the Twins save some money.

Right now, the Twins also will have to jettison someone to the minors when Buxton returns. Rooker, Cave or Refsnyder? Let's see who gets the most playing time to see if they remain on the roster in the week ahead.

So many extra names in the bullpen. Someone will have to be removed to add Dobnak back to the 40-man. Who could that be. Of course, the Twins could give up on Pineda and Thorpe and make them 60-day disabled and end their seasons (as well as their career in the off-season with the Twins). Looks like the Twins will also have to add back Farrell.

Of course, with the reworked rotation, would love to see the Twins promote Strotman, add in Ryan, maybe advance Balazovic for a start or two. Looks like Sammons, because of Rule 5 status, is also in the mix as a potential lefty. Of course the Twins could demote Barnes or Over if they wish, end their seasons early and keep their innings solid. But still need to get rid of a body if you add Ryan.

But, yes. I vote for Miranda over Simmons. Stop playing guys out of position. Arrez has no need to be in the outfield. Miranda doesn't need to play any position open that day...make him your third baseman of the future and then decide after seeing him play if he opens in St. Paul next spring or the majors, and you have to do something with Donaldson, or be glad you have a DH who can also play the field. Then you only have to decide about Kirilloff over Sano at first base in spring training, and what to do with that odd man out.

Simmons is not in the mix for 2022. Rooker still is. Look at anyone else NOT in the mix for 2022 and make roster moves now accordingly, please.

"stop playing guys out of position" and "put Polanco at SS" don't really work well together as thoughts.....

IMO, they'll need to trade one of Miranda or Arraez or Donaldson.....there isn't room for all three of them on the roster next year, not with AK and Sano on the roster, and Garver at C/DH. Not unless you move AK back to the OF......and even then....

yeahyabetcha · August 23, 2021

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

"stop playing guys out of position" and "put Polanco at SS" don't really work well together as thoughts.....

IMO, they'll need to trade one of Miranda or Arraez or Donaldson.....there isn't room for all three of them on the roster next year, not with AK and Sano on the roster, and Garver at C/DH. Not unless you move AK back to the OF......and even then....

I don’t think a trade is necessary. Sano-Polanco-free agent-Donaldson is your infield. Kepler-Buxton/Kirilloff

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

"stop playing guys out of position" and "put Polanco at SS" don't really work well together as thoughts.....

IMO, they'll need to trade one of Miranda or Arraez or Donaldson.....there isn't room for all three of them on the roster next year, not with AK and Sano on the roster, and Garver at C/DH. Not unless you move AK back to the OF......and even then....

is the outfield. Garver and Jeffers catch. Arraez, Miranda and three others is the bench.

DJL44 · August 23, 2021

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

"stop playing guys out of position" and "put Polanco at SS" don't really work well together as thoughts.....

IMO, they'll need to trade one of Miranda or Arraez or Donaldson.....there isn't room for all three of them on the roster next year, not with AK and Sano on the roster, and Garver at C/DH. Not unless you move AK back to the OF......and even then....

Sano is the guy I'd be looking to trade. He offers the least bang for the buck. Expect Miranda to bounce back and forth between AAA and the big leagues next season.

Greglw3 · August 23, 2021

16 hours ago, darwin22 said:

Your last comment-----"dfa'ing BOTH Simmons and Cave"-----is at the top of my immediate wish list. Saying that it won't happen as our supposed "braintrust" doesn't have the cajones to take this action. Don't understand that thinking as neither have any logical upside of being on this team next year.

I agree wholly with DFAing Simmons and Cave. They are both below average MLB players and should not play for the Twins in 2022 or thereafter. DFA the sooner the better.

Otto von Ballpark · August 23, 2021

7 hours ago, roger said:

I don't know or care to try to understand what is happening in AAA regarding playoffs, or not, and league championship rules. But the Saints have one hell of a team and are battling for first place. Miranda is their best hitter. With the addition of Ryan and maybe Winder getting healthy, they have a great chance to keep up their recent pace and win this out.

I posted this elsewhere today, but basically, there are no minor league playoffs this year. Saints could win the division but the AAA title is likely out of reach (the Saints are tied for 6th, 8.5 back with 24 to play). There's also a separate 10 game "final stretch" after the regular season but it seems of dubious value.

https://ballparkdigest.com/2021/07/14/milb-turns-triple-a-extended-season-to-tourney-kinda/

MLB has a 28 man roster limit for September, and we'll may have a few guys rehabbing, so we can still give the Saints some quality players, without giving them Miranda and Ryan the rest of the way.

Otto von Ballpark · August 23, 2021

8 hours ago, Gatormandd said:

Isn't the call-up period next week? I think we can wait without cutting anyone, lol.

MLB rosters expand on September 1st, but only by 2 -- to 28, from 26.

I think the cutting suggestions are to open up playing time rather than a roster spot, but I agree with the author that position player cuts seem unlikely now.

RpR · August 23, 2021

8 hours ago, umterp23 said:

didn't realize that he was also bugs bunny and pitching in the game at same time. Polanco at short doesn't equal 100 losses

He is lousy at short on a good day, simple as that because his record shows it.

Major League Ready · August 23, 2021

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

"stop playing guys out of position" and "put Polanco at SS" don't really work well together as thoughts.....

IMO, they'll need to trade one of Miranda or Arraez or Donaldson.....there isn't room for all three of them on the roster next year, not with AK and Sano on the roster, and Garver at C/DH. Not unless you move AK back to the OF......and even then....

IMO, any team trading Miranda and keeping Donaldson is a big mistake, especially a team with the Twins scenario in terms of having numerous pitching prospects to get established. It's an even bigger mistake for a small or mid-market team. I think our problem is we have 2 very good 2B. Trade one of them if the value back is there. BTW, it probably won't be a similar value established MLB player. The team that trades for Arraez or Polanco is not looking to give up high end major league talent. It's possible but unlikely. Tampa is really good at get guys on the brink of the big leagues or guys that have just broke in but not gotten established.

I would trade one of Arreaz / Polanco (probably Arraez) AND Donaldson. It could backfire. Miranda could fail at this level but worst case scenario we spend whatever part of Donaldson's salary we off-load on a SS or pitching.

Major League Ready · August 23, 2021

17 hours ago, RpR said:

He is lousy at short on a good day, simple as that because his record shows it.

Yes he is but stating emphatically that they lose 100 games with him at SS is an absurd statement given they won 100 games in 2019 with him at SS. I really want a better SS solution too but let's not get carried away with statements like they lose 100 games with him at SS.!

Mike Sixel · August 23, 2021

12 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

IMO, any team trading Miranda and keeping Donaldson is a big mistake, especially a team with the Twins scenario in terms of having numerous pitching prospects to get established. It's an even bigger mistake for a small or mid-market team. I think our problem is we have 2 very good 2B. Trade one of them if the value back is there. BTW, it probably won't be a similar value established MLB player. The team that trades for Arraez or Polanco is not looking to give up high end major league talent. It's possible but unlikely. Tampa is really good at get guys on the brink of the big leagues or guys that have just broke in but not gotten established.

I would trade one of Arreaz / Polanco (probably Arraez) AND Donaldson. It could backfire. Miranda could fail at this level but worst case scenario we spend whatever part of Donaldson's salary we off-load on a SS or pitching.

I think I'd trade Donaldson, but it wasn't even 12 months ago no GM thought Miranda was worth claiming.....but I don't have HIGH hopes for next year, so I would deal him most likely. Also, Arraez. That said, Lewis could end up at 3rd if he's not a SS (or CF if Buxton is gone).

Danchat · August 24, 2021

Having Simmons at SS is nice for the pitchers, but since he's unlikely to be back in 2022, why even bother? Miranda should be up in September and playing every day, no exceptions.

specialiststeve · August 24, 2021

On 8/22/2021 at 3:49 PM, Seansy said:

Rooker in LF, Miranda at 3rd, DH JD, Sanó at 1B.

Arraez rotates to give everyone a day off so he plays regularly.

JD and Sano Rotate at DH/1B... Plant Miranda at 3rd... Polanco at SS and Arraez at 2nd. Have Simmons play As a fill in to give Polanco or Arraez a break... Simmons has not future here so let the core.. future core play together...

specialiststeve · August 24, 2021

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I think I'd trade Donaldson, but it wasn't even 12 months ago no GM thought Miranda was worth claiming.....but I don't have HIGH hopes for next year, so I would deal him most likely. Also, Arraez. That said, Lewis could end up at 3rd if he's not a SS (or CF if Buxton is gone).

Rumor has it that Donaldson was available... but no takers... likely would have to "pay" for him to go somewhere and get very little back.. Keep him as a DH so he stays in the lineup as his bat is still strong... and would keep him fairly safe.

Mike Sixel · August 24, 2021

22 minutes ago, specialiststeve said:

Rumor has it that Donaldson was available... but no takers... likely would have to "pay" for him to go somewhere and get very little back.. Keep him as a DH so he stays in the lineup as his bat is still strong... and would keep him fairly safe.

Where does Arraez play? Or Sano? P

LA VIkes Fan · August 24, 2021

You start with a few facts and the choice is right in front of you. Fact 1- Polanco isn’t going back to SS. He’s the 2B long term. Fact 2 - Donaldson can’t move and is Physically incapable of playing in the field more than 50 to 75 games a year at third base. He hast to be the DH if he stays. Fact 3. - Arraez Has a bad knee, cannot physically play a lot in the outfield because of that knee and requires some either IL or DH time. Fact 4 - We have too many people for the DH/1B/3B spots and none of them can play SS. Either one of them has to be traded or sit on the bench. Fact 5 - there is an open spot in LF and potentially an open part time spot in RF, depending on what you think about Kepler’s future. Neither Rooker or Larnach has shown enough this year to be penciled into LF.

I see two choices. Either move Kiriloff back to LF, which opens up first base for Sano, and leaves potentially Donaldson, Miranda and Arraez playing third base and DH. The other choice is to keep Kirilloff at first base, which means either Donaldson has to play third with Sano the DH, Areaez Utl And Miranda a back up infielder or in AAA. In that scenario, Kepler plays almost every day and Larnach and Rooker fight it out for the LF job.

My suggestion? Trade Donaldson. Opens up third base for Arraez on a daily basis unless and until Miranda beats him out for the job, and which point he becomes a UTL. Decide if you think either Larnach or Rooker can be your every day leftfielder. If they can’t, and I think it’s pretty clear that Rooker can’t with Larnach still a possibility. put Kirilloff in LF, Sano at 1B, Arraez at 3B/Utl, Give Miranda a shot at third base, and rotate bench players through the DH spot or use it for partial days off. Even better, bring back Nelson Cruz to DH If they can.

Miranda this year? Stays in Saint Paul until their season is over. Twins have financial incentives for doing that and they like to have their MILB players taste success on the way up. I don’t think we’ll be seeing him this year unless the Saint Paul season ends in time to give him a taste at the very end of the season. I’m not saying it’s the right call, I think it’s the call they’ve already made.

darin617 · August 24, 2021

3 ways to get him here? Light rail, taxi, or limo.

Major League Ready · August 24, 2021

13 hours ago, Danchat said:

Having Simmons at SS is nice for the pitchers, but since he's unlikely to be back in 2022, why even bother? Miranda should be up in September and playing every day, no exceptions.

True. It's also true that ditching a veteran that has been an elite player will not be looked upon favorably when we try to sign free agents in the future. They are still looking for the next $10M payday and being dumped to the bench does not help their cause for next year. You may think it's OK to discard them but it will make a poor impression among their piers. Fans can be this short-sighted. GMs need to protect the team's image with players.

Major League Ready · August 24, 2021

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I think I'd trade Donaldson, but it wasn't even 12 months ago no GM thought Miranda was worth claiming.....but I don't have HIGH hopes for next year, so I would deal him most likely. Also, Arraez. That said, Lewis could end up at 3rd if he's not a SS (or CF if Buxton is gone).

I agree Lewis could end up at 3B. However, if we lose Buxton, Lewis will be most valuable in CF. I do not agree on trading Miranda and I don't believe there is anyway the FO deals him. We are thin at 3B as it is. Donaldson has reached the point in his career that his utility at 3B and his ability to stay on the field is declining. I share your concern given Miranda's sudden breakthrough. However, he has sustained it at 2 levels. More importantly, Miranda's potential impact is huge and we would feel that impact for several years. Would the Ray's trade Miranda. VERY unlikely!

Arraez is a valuable player and he is fun to watch. I don't really want to trade him but he is viable as an every day 2B. My thinking is that he would have his maximum value in that role. Therefore, either Arraez or Polanco would bring back greater value than they provide under our current roster construction. Of course, you have to find the right deal but the hope is to get a SS or pitching and Martin or Lewis eventually take the Arraez role. They can sign a free agent until that happens or give Gordon or Palacios a shot in 2022 until Martin / Lewis are ready.

Otto von Ballpark · August 24, 2021

21 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

IMO, they'll need to trade one of Miranda or Arraez or Donaldson.....there isn't room for all three of them on the roster next year, not with AK and Sano on the roster, and Garver at C/DH. Not unless you move AK back to the OF......and even then....

I don't think so. Garver can just catch now, no need to worry about DH'ing him.

Miranda has yet to even debut, so he probably won't demand a spot on opening day. Still a few directions we could go at shortstop -- sign a new everyday guy, sign a part-timer, etc. And you know there will be injuries.

And Sano's only got a year left on his contract anyway, he's not blocking anyone. If we have enough healthy options to force him out, we could always pay Sano's salary to move him in trade.

Mike Sixel · August 24, 2021

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I agree Lewis could end up at 3B. However, if we lose Buxton, Lewis will be most valuable in CF. I do not agree on trading Miranda and I don't believe there is anyway the FO deals him. We are thin at 3B as it is. Donaldson has reached the point in his career that his utility at 3B and his ability to stay on the field is declining. I share your concern given Miranda's sudden breakthrough. However, he has sustained it at 2 levels. More importantly, Miranda's potential impact is huge and we would feel that impact for several years. Would the Ray's trade Miranda. VERY unlikely!

Arraez is a valuable player and he is fun to watch. I don't really want to trade him but he is viable as an every day 2B. My thinking is that he would have his maximum value in that role. Therefore, either Arraez or Polanco would bring back greater value than they provide under our current roster construction. Of course, you have to find the right deal but the hope is to get a SS or pitching and Martin or Lewis eventually take the Arraez role. They can sign a free agent until that happens or give Gordon or Palacios a shot in 2022 until Martin / Lewis are ready.

I wasn't talking about dealing Miranda, but Donaldson. I see that wasn't clear.

Mike Sixel · August 24, 2021

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I don't think so. Garver can just catch now, no need to worry about DH'ing him.

Miranda has yet to even debut, so he probably won't demand a spot on opening day. Still a few directions we could go at shortstop -- sign a new everyday guy, sign a part-timer, etc. And you know there will be injuries.

And Sano's only got a year left on his contract anyway, he's not blocking anyone. If we have enough healthy options to force him out, we could always pay Sano's salary to move him in trade.

You just agreed with me. Miranda won't be up, or they need to trade Sano if everyone is healthy.

I just don't see anyway to have Polanco and Arraez and Miranda on the same team.

Also, Garver will catch maybe 80ish games.....

Mike Sixel · August 24, 2021

10 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

You start with a few facts and the choice is right in front of you. Fact 1- Polanco isn’t going back to SS. He’s the 2B long term. Fact 2 - Donaldson can’t move and is Physically incapable of playing in the field more than 50 to 75 games a year at third base. He hast to be the DH if he stays. Fact 3. - Arraez Has a bad knee, cannot physically play a lot in the outfield because of that knee and requires some either IL or DH time. Fact 4 - We have too many people for the DH/1B/3B spots and none of them can play SS. Either one of them has to be traded or sit on the bench. Fact 5 - there is an open spot in LF and potentially an open part time spot in RF, depending on what you think about Kepler’s future. Neither Rooker or Larnach has shown enough this year to be penciled into LF.

I see two choices. Either move Kiriloff back to LF, which opens up first base for Sano, and leaves potentially Donaldson, Miranda and Arraez playing third base and DH. The other choice is to keep Kirilloff at first base, which means either Donaldson has to play third with Sano the DH, Areaez Utl And Miranda a back up infielder or in AAA. In that scenario, Kepler plays almost every day and Larnach and Rooker fight it out for the LF job.

My suggestion? Trade Donaldson. Opens up third base for Arraez on a daily basis unless and until Miranda beats him out for the job, and which point he becomes a UTL. Decide if you think either Larnach or Rooker can be your every day leftfielder. If they can’t, and I think it’s pretty clear that Rooker can’t with Larnach still a possibility. put Kirilloff in LF, Sano at 1B, Arraez at 3B/Utl, Give Miranda a shot at third base, and rotate bench players through the DH spot or use it for partial days off. Even better, bring back Nelson Cruz to DH If they can.

Miranda this year? Stays in Saint Paul until their season is over. Twins have financial incentives for doing that and they like to have their MILB players taste success on the way up. I don’t think we’ll be seeing him this year unless the Saint Paul season ends in time to give him a taste at the very end of the season. I’m not saying it’s the right call, I think it’s the call they’ve already made.

I am betting Martin is your LF at some point next year, if Buxton is retained. Unless he can play SS, that is.

Major League Ready · August 24, 2021

This discussion just illustrates that this roster could go in a lot of different directions. It will be interesting to see how many Donaldson rumors pop up this fall. That will give us an idea if they are looking to move him. Sign Buxton and trade Donaldson is #1 and #2 this off-season for me. I don't think trading Donaldson is key to making next year's team better but it would help build a winner if the corresponding moves are good.

Otto von Ballpark · August 24, 2021

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You just agreed with me. Miranda won't be up, or they need to trade Sano if everyone is healthy.

I just don't see anyway to have Polanco and Arraez and Miranda on the same team.

I think it depends on what they do at shortstop. If they sign another everyday guy like Simmons, that complicates matters -- but maybe they go with a part-timer? A Jose Iglesias type (not necessarily Iglesias specifically!) could sit in favor of Polanco a fair amount, and come in late as a defensive replacement, etc. Arraez could still get a fair amount of starts at 2B and LF, then.

Mike Sixel · August 24, 2021

5 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I think it depends on what they do at shortstop. If they sign another everyday guy like Simmons, that complicates matters -- but maybe they go with a part-timer? A Jose Iglesias type (not necessarily Iglesias specifically!) could sit in favor of Polanco a fair amount, and come in late as a defensive replacement, etc. Arraez could still get a fair amount of starts at 2B and LF, then.

If they put him in LF, just spot the other team a few doubles, I guess? No more playing guys out of position, please.

LastOnePicked · September 8, 2021

On 8/22/2021 at 9:21 PM, mikelink45 said:

it is about the FO rewarding a player for outstanding performance.

Absolutely this. He's exceeded all expectations. He's become a top prospect. He deserves a chance to put the icing on this incredible cake of a season. And he needs some MLB at-bats so he gets a sense of what he might need to work on over the offseason.

He can have Rooker's at-bats, and he can split playing time at 1st with Sano and 3rd with Arraez/Donaldson. Might be good for him to be near Donaldson for a bit as well.

After the FO exposed him to the Rule 5 draft last November, it's additionally insulting to completely ignore what he's done in AA/AAA all season. DFA Cave immediately and call up Miranda.

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