HOU 5, MIN 2: Rough Opener, Strong Stewart Homecoming

More interesting was the way that Houston used Pressly. He used the fastball to set up the slider and curve. He threw strikes, throwing 12 pitches and 9 of them strikes. HE NEVER THREW A CHANGE. Too bad the Twins: Manager, Pitching Coach, Bullpen Coach and assorted catchers could NEVER figure out how to properly use him. Check his stats since going over to Houston.

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Pressly was pretty good with the Twins this year. I think Houston is just using him less. Molly rode him hard in June.

That was one horrible slide by Sano.

 

Just because our guys choked in the first inning doesn't mean the game play of an opener is a bad evolution. Other than the ninth, or perhaps in a tie game in extras, an inning is an inning is an inning. Especially if they enter the game at the beginning of the inning. May just blew it. 

 

Trading Pressly was ill-advised. Prospects. A dime a dozen. Stories littered with hopes and dreams, when you already have what you want.

Why limit it to an inning? Go ahead and go through the order once, then go on to the next pitcher,

I didn't watch any of either opener games, but here's what I like about it in the Twins' current situation. As is true with most teams at this time of year, we are in fall training. Out of fairness to the game, teams need to try to win when facing an opponent that is in the running for the postseason. But the rest of the games should be devoted to player development. When it comes to pitchers, it's a lot like spring training. The decision about who pitches should be made in large part based on whom the manager, coaches, and front office want to evaluate and prepare for the future. That means shorter appearances by some pitchers so that others get a chance to get in to games.

I agree with both of the above posts. 

 

I can't believe how many of MLB players can't run the bases or slide properly!

 

If you are going to use the opener concept it should be for 2 innings. I get the part about giving the "primary" a clean inning but the opener has to give you 2 for me to think it works.

As a person who thinks the Opener stinks, I want to thank the Twins for demonstrating why I do not like it.  The Opener has the same issue that the Starter would - facing the best bats first.  It is not like our Opener options are lights out, nor that BP pitchers are used to the starter routine.  For my enjoyment I think we should start with Belisle and call it our fireworks opener - might draw a crowd.

 

I agree with the notes on Grossman too.  He has truly been the most steady bat for us the past week.  That says a lot about Grossman, but it also says a lot about the rest of the lineup.

Hey if baseball wants to continue to drive fans away, by all mean continue using the opener strategy.

I can understand in the Twins and other terrible teams case of wanting to see what they have in young pitchers, but  I am not sure this does that.

 

I agree with Bill above, why limit it to one inning.

IMO almost nobody goes to a game to see a particular starting pitcher, unless it's someone who has just won a Cy Young or is on a crazy streak or something. Given the way that pitching is evolving to be such an irregular cluster, the opener seems worth a try. Probably takes some getting used to for somoene like May

I'm annoyed by the Opener concept because it's emulating a team that's trying to be different because of obvious fiscal constraints in Tampa, especially relative to their divisional competition.  It's like we're saying 'ooh we want to be really cheap too because that's how we baseball'.

 

Make it relevant to your talent if you're going to do it - use Odorizzi and Stewart for 3 inning starts, and have a unique strategy to follow him - build up May and Magill as 3 inning middle men or something

Small ball, Power ball, Closer, Opener, Pitch to miss bats, Pitch to contact.   Take nearly any approach you want and if you do it well you will likely succeed.    In this case, May did not do his part and it failed.   If he throws a good 1st inning maybe we win 2-1.   Its like being green side in golf.   You can putt it, you can chip it, you can pitch it, you can flop it but if you choose any of those options and chunk it or shank it you fail.   Now I know odds are involved in all of it but the execution is still the key. 

 

IMO almost nobody goes to a game to see a particular starting pitcher, unless it's someone who has just won a Cy Young or is on a crazy streak or something. Given the way that pitching is evolving to be such an irregular cluster, the opener seems worth a try. Probably takes some getting used to for somoene like May

I disagree, I was at that Tampa game that lasted 5+ hours in heat with my Son (10).

Everybody around us was annoyed with the pitching changes, not knowing who was even pitching.

I won't go to another game that is has that strategy.

Even if you are going to a game to see a certain pitcher, why does it matter if that pitcher pitches innings 2-7 instead of 1-6?  You still are seeing them the same amount.  The opener strategy shouldn't have any effect on whether you watch a game based on the pitcher.

 

Also, while ideally your opener would do well, I don't think that's the focus of this experiment.  The result I'm sure they are most interested in is the effect it has on the primary pitcher, especially in their last one or two innings.  Does it improve their numbers in those innings?  If so, then the strategy might have some merit, and you just need to find the right guys to be the openers.

 

As the article said, two games with bad results from the openers (which isn't the focus of the experiment) isn't nearly enough to scrap the idea.

The opener sucks. Period. It ruins the game. It ruins stats. It ruins the star pitcher/fan relationship. People like to see their stars play, not a platoon. Tampa is getting lucky. It’s not the opener doing it.

I don't mind them playing around with the "opener" concept. It's an opportunity in a lost season to try out some new concepts, try some people in some different roles and see how they react. It may not be a keeper, but I actually like the idea of pushing relievers  & starters to do things outside of the regimented and hyper-defined roles they have been formed into over the last 30 years.

 

Glad to see Kohl Stewart have a good outing. Not sure what his future is yet, but if he can throw strikes and finish off ABs with some efficiency he could be a good innings-eater with the weak contact he induces.

This opener crap makes it where I can’t even check Stewart’s game score. Instead I have to see May’s stinkshow 18 game score. I’m telling you, fans come out to see their favorite players. And develop relationships with their favorite players. They do not want to see Joe blow come out and stink at the place up for two innings, followed by the guy they wanted to see for 4 innings, then another guy for 1 inning then lefty specialist for one inning then maybe a closer if the first guy didn’t already blow it in the first inning. Meanwhile the other side has a Chris Sale or Kluber in for 8 innings and their fans are happy. Get better pitching. And there’s no need for this stupid experiment invented by academic nerds who likely never even played the damn game.

The opener sucks. Period. It ruins the game. It ruins stats. It ruins the star pitcher/fan relationship. People like to see their stars play, not a platoon. Tampa is getting lucky. It’s not the opener doing it.

People said similar things when Oakland was getting all the good OB% guys.

Time will tell. Baseball is a long season. Its hard to be lucky over the course of the season. And its really hard to be lucky 2 years in a row.

In a few years openers might have their own opening music and be just as overhyped as closers.

People said similar things when Oakland was getting all the good OB% guys.

Time will tell. Baseball is a long season. Its hard to be lucky over the course of the season. And its really hard to be lucky 2 years in a row.

In a few years openers might have their own opening music and be just as overhyped as closers.

not a chance. And you can’t compare Oakland’s OBP moneyball to this. THAT didn’t fundamentally change everything about the history of a particular position. Eggheads need to leave baseball alone. Fans don’t like it. Pitchers don’t like it. Tampa has LESS attendance this year than the last 13 years! Fans want their Verlanders and Sherzers and in Tampa’s case, Archer. They don’t like platoons. No matter if they’re winning. In my opinion, the opener strategy is simply a move by the front office bean counters to attempt to minimize the necessity for a $20 million a year star if they can find a way to get by with a few 2-3 million dollar guys. It won’t work.

It ruins the game? It ruins stats?  So everyone that went to the game to see Kohl Strewart pitch today was ruined because he threw innings 2-6 instead of starting with inning 1?  What's the difference if May threw the 1st instead of say the 7th?  I think it's an interesting concept and have no qualms with them trying it out here late in this season.

Well if Kohl threw what he did 1-5 instead of 2-6 he wouldn’t have a 4 run deficit.

Stewart's stuff looks major-league quality.  Or maybe, it's just me.

 

There will be some pretty decent data by the end of the year, when looking at opener results across the league.

 

I think it's still a fact that the best pitchers are your starters....at least 1-3 in the rotation are better pitchers than all but maybe your 8th and 9th inning guys who posses maybe one ++ pitch.  So, more often than not, you're opener is going to be your 6th, 7th, 8th best pitcher pitching against the top of the other teams order.  To make it worse, the other team knows who the opener is going to be.

 

Meanwhile, it does no good to reduce the number of runs surrendered in the second and third innings (or sixth), if you give up even more in the first.

 

Admittedly, I'm hoping it fails.  Only because it will be another reason to carry additional pitchers on the 25-man.  No mater how you figure it, it's one additional pitcher burned before the game gets into the middle stages.  Managers will still want the protection on the back-side for specific match-ups and extra-innings.  Guaranteed.