Hicks-Murphy Trade Looking Worse By The Minute

Emulating anything the Padres do would be as polar opposite as you can get to the Twins.  The Padres seem to be trying to hit on the next big market inefficiency, only they are a step behind and trying to do them all at once.  RH power?  Outfield defense is overrated?  Lockdown backend of the bullpen?  Rule V picks? Catchers with recognizable names?  Check, check, check.  They are the 76ers of MLB.  It looked good on paper...

Not to mention, if Atlanta is selling, I'm not buying.

The Twins have already been active in  "mediocre, back-up" catcher market this winter.  They netted an interesting outfielder at Dave Stewarts Prospect Haus for Chris Hermann.

I guess it is all in perception.  The Twins got john "not Gary Sanchez" murphy, when they could've gotten FORMER TOP PROSPECT CHRISTIAN BETHANCOURT!

 Of course, then we would have a  thread going decrying the loss of 

Felix Jorge and Levi Michael, or whomever it would have taken to get Bethancourt.

The various defenses offered for this trade still remain inadequate.

  On 12/11/2015 at 3:56 PM, South Dakota Tom said:

Can you imagine how much everyone on this board would be freaking out if we hadn't done anything about catcher as of this date and the end of the winter meetings? 

I wondering about the relevance of this comment? If the Twins didn't trade away one of their OF to fill the catcher spot, they could still have signed a catcher by this point.

  On 12/11/2015 at 4:04 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

My sentiments as well. On paper, it was a fair trade. Now it's going to take on-field results to determine the winner and loser of the deal (or both could be winners/losers).

 

Not a huge fan of the deal but it's now up to the scouts and players.

Further, I think we also have to keep the positions of these two players involved in their proper context. There is at least a decent chance that Hicks will hit for a higher AVG and OB than Murphy. He may have more power and more speed as well. But Murphy will be the guy behind the plate calling a game for the staff and receiving 90+ MPH fastballs and crazy breaking balls and balls in the dirt while also trying to catch base runners. All while trying to produce a league average OPS or greater.

Context.

  On 12/11/2015 at 4:29 PM, sane09 said:

Barring injury to a starting rotation is almost impossible.

If you will pay me $20 for each start missed due to injury, grieving, child-birth or undisclosed personal issue (Ervin Santana), I will pay you $200 if the five original Twins SP's can actually make all the starts.

Please don't take that bet, I can't do the jail time....

Absolutely. But you don't look at the construction of a roster, especially at this point, with the expectation or knowledge of when someone might be injured. So in a vacuum...opening day lets say...there is no room for everyone. Obviously there will be starts missed for some reason or another, or extra starts. But at that point, doubtful you'd pull a May out of the bullpen for that situation. More than likely, it would be your long reliever or someone from Rochester. 

In a dream scenario, though I intend no ill-will toward any of our players, the older Santana, (or someone) might be traded at some point to allow for all the younger arms to be in the rotation.

If Hicks figures it out lefthanded his upside is higher. I think there a very real possibility that never happens which means he becomes the right side of a platoon which severely diminishes his value.

  On 12/11/2015 at 5:27 PM, Shane Wahl said:

I wondering about the relevance of this comment? If the Twins didn't trade away one of their OF to fill the catcher spot, they could still have signed a catcher by this point.

I'm not so sure.   Yes they could have signed someone, I agree with that.   But who?   Yesterday was the first day that this San Diego glut appeared, and everyone seemed very underwhelmed by the FA catchers out there who already signed for cheap.   Maybe I should edit and add "or instead of Murphy, they had only signed a middling backup FA to address this glaring need"

As a Hicks fan, I would have rather kept him and got a catcher some other way. I think he did start to figure it out, and I'm concerned that he may have been made available simply because some coaches lost their patience with him.

All that said, I'm willing to give Murphy a chance and I think that declaring the trade a loss at this point is extremely short-sighted.

  On 12/11/2015 at 12:32 PM, KGB said:

I have to admit, I not the biggest fan of Ryan but this is getting a little old.  He trades HIcks prior to the winter meeting - he acted too soon.  He doesn't pick up a RP in the meeting - what is he waiting for?

 

No wonder he tried to retire early.

If he retired because of the stuff he read on TD, he needs to retire again.  (If he even reads TD, he might want to think about retiring.)

  On 12/11/2015 at 1:18 PM, sane09 said:

In fact, catcher is now such a position of depth for the Twins, that Kurt Suzuki has become a trade chip.

The Twins now have:

Suzuki, Murphy and Hicks on the 40-man roster.

Centeno, Turner and Paulino at AAA.

Garver and Navaretto at AA

Trade Suzuki (and Plouffe?) for whatever you think we need.

We don't have one catcher that should be starting in the majors and Suzuki wouldn't garner anything worth having.

  On 12/11/2015 at 1:18 PM, sane09 said:

In fact, catcher is now such a position of depth for the Twins, that Kurt Suzuki has become a trade chip.

The Twins now have:

Suzuki, Murphy and Hicks on the 40-man roster.

Centeno, Turner and Paulino at AAA.

Garver and Navaretto at AA

Trade Suzuki (and Plouffe?) for whatever you think we need.

Er...um...how about the Phillie Phanatic? His value should be down since they've got a new GM who probably isn't too attached to him yet. In fact, we might even be able to get them to throw a prospect like, say, Matt Klentak into the deal.

  On 12/11/2015 at 1:52 PM, gunnarthor said:

Aaron Hicks had one good month at the plate and hasn't been able to hit otherwise.  He was blocking the best prospect in the game and his bat certainly won't play in a corner - where he'd block Sano, Rosario and Kepler.  The Twins traded him away for what looks to be a nice solid catcher. Cripes, even Klaw liked the trade.  Ryan did a good job.

In what universe was Hicks blocking 'the best prospect in the game'?  That was not happening.

  On 12/11/2015 at 3:33 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

*Looks at the calendar*

 

Yep, still not even mid-December. Ryan has made two significant moves and people are complaining he's not "trying to win" because he didn't make more moves at the winter meetings.

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone about not picking up guys at the meetings but, again, it's not even mid-December yet. There is over a month of solid activity left in this offseason. What is happening right now reminds me of people complaining about ST rosters on March 10th.

 

"Ryan moves too early!"

 

*December 11th rolls around*

 

"The offseason is OVER!"

I'm having a hard time believing he's made two significant signings.  Park is a low risk move that may never work out.  We have no idea, he's never played a professional game at any level for any MLB organization.  Then we signed a backup catcher.  Are these significant, or have some been conditioned to believe they are due to what we are used to?  It's possible neither significant move even affects our starting team come next season.due to the kind of action we are used to seeing. Signing two players who have proven nothing at the major league level and who may not even be starting come opening day doesn't strike me as significant.  And, you know, it's possible one move just ends up hurting our OF defense.  

  On 12/11/2015 at 3:36 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

 

 

Again, Bethancourt is an interesting reclamation project... But he's not the type of guy you rely on for anything, particularly when your starting catcher is named Kurt Suzuki. That's inviting disaster.

is it your contention that JR Hicks IS the the type of guy you rely on for anything when Suzuki is your starting catcher.

  On 12/11/2015 at 3:56 PM, South Dakota Tom said:

Can you imagine how much everyone on this board would be freaking out if we hadn't done anything about catcher as of this date and the end of the winter meetings? 

We have done nothing to address the starting catcher role.  Backup catcher depth was well covered and still is, but as far as I'm concerned, we have done nothing to fix that particular problem.

It is not.

  On 12/11/2015 at 11:27 PM, sane09 said:

Joe Girardi on John Ryan Murphy
“I think he’s improved dramatically as a catcher from the time he was drafted,” Girardi said. “He’s very smart. He works very hard. He’s got an idea what he wants to do. I think it’s a good trade for both teams and I think he’ll be a good big-league catcher"

How often do managers dog out the players they are about to trade or just traded?

  On 12/11/2015 at 11:27 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

He's far from perfect but at least he's shown some level of competence at the MLB level.

Indeed.  172 PAs, an OPS in the .730s, with a .406 BABIP and playing in a band box  :-)

  On 12/11/2015 at 11:46 PM, sane09 said:

Not as often as they say very little when they know that their opinion will be thrown back in their face if nobody agrees with it. A Yankee Manager who the Yankee fans don't trust is not long for that job. Deceit in public view is toxic!

Why would the Yankees fans care about what Girardi said about a guy they traded?  Have you ever heard a manager dog out a traded prospect?