Here's Why the Twins Have a Stronger Rotation Than the Houston Astros

I don't know that I buy this...entirely...but I certainly want to, and it might work out that way.

Go Twins!

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I agree completely - at a loss for words over the lunacy. We spent whole off-season complaining because we still need a #1 starter, and the Astros have two of them. 

Ok, this is stronger than my real opinion. I just liked reading between the lines of the blank comment.  There certainly is some added injury risk with older pitchers, and the Twins have better options a the back end of the rotation.

Nobody would be surprised if both of these teams made the playoffs, but to win in October it helps a lot to have a couple of guys pitch like aces. Pitchers who have long track records of being aces are better bets to do that.

The pundits have MN behind HOU, how far behind I don`t know. They had #9 HOU & #10 BOS but now I see it was before Maeda trade

Top to bottom, I will take the Twins for the season. But when October rolls around, it is valuable to have a workhorse like Verlander on the mound. Can Berrios become that guy? That is our hope and I think he has the arsenal to do it

Verlander and Grienke are future hall of famers. I could see Grienke fall of a cliff this year though. That velocity isn’t going any higher....... I would personally take the Astros rotation as is, but an injury would really hurt them

 

 

Nobody would be surprised if both of these teams made the playoffs, but to win in October it helps a lot to have a couple of guys pitch like aces. Pitchers who have long track records of being aces are better bets to do that.

I especially like this paragraph.    You may not like that we don't have what is commonly known as an ace but we have seen Berrios and Odorizzi pitch like aces and shut down good teams.   We have also seen aces get knocked around.   You would prefer to have the better bets as you say but that is all they are.   In any given game with Verlander vs Berrios it is probably something like 60-40 in favor of Verlander but its not more than that.    KC won without aces.    The 16 game losing streak is a complete anomaly.   Statistics say we should have been more like 9-16 in that time and maybe even advanced at least once.   I also liked that it was pointed out we took two of three from Cole and Verlander.     

As far as Berrios you can see that the curveball in the clip is nasty but is more horizontal than vertical.  Most of his curveballs last year seemed to be more horizontal.  If you just face him once he could make you look really bad.  I wonder if that is easier to track and lay off as the season goes by and more film and at bats accumulate.   I only saw a small clip of ST this year but the one I saw was more vertical and way nasty.   Just that small change of plane can make a ton of difference.  I know in high school there was a guy from Delano that threw a ridiculously huge breaking curve ball but after your knees buckled the first few times if you stuck in there you could hit it.   A good 12-6 curveball is tough to hit even if you know its coming.

Dream on. Dream until your dreams come true.

And maybe this is the year.

Couldn’t disagree more.

They have the reigning Cy Young winner. Zach Grienke will be just as good as anyone on the Twins rotation (expect for Berrios, IMO). McCullers has just as much upside as anyone if he’s healthy. The bottom of the rotation is every bit as good, if not better, than guys like Bailey, Dobnak, etc.

Also, it can’t be discounted that the Astros have a much longer track record of getting extra out of pitchers than the Twins.

From what I’ve seen, Maeda is already being vastly overrated by many folks before even throwing a pitch here. I think we saw peak Odorizzi last year. Putting too much stock into Bailey’s small sample size of improvement is kind of silly given his age and track record. Berrios has yet to show that he can get hitters out in August/September. Dobnak and Smeltzer will almost certainly regress.

The optimism is great. But, we’ve been trying a little hard lately to convince ourselves/others how great this rotations is lately. A lot of best case scenarios have turned into baseline for some people.

I also don’t think some random ESPN article mentioning Berrios as one of 65 possible Cy Young dark horses is evidence of anything. It keeps getting brought up as support in these articles.

I think the Astros will fall off this year. Going to be hard to carry around that baggage this year will wear them down. Also, the pitching reasons mentioned in article, relying in 2 36-37 year old pitchers as the top of their rotation. Bound to be a dropoff, take the under at Vegas for wins.

I’m not sure which part of this straw man article was the most pronounced; comparing a starting rotation likely built for 162-game success to one that is clearly superior in a short series (apples and oranges) or sharing two videos which were picked solely to make the Astros look 1) foolish and 2) inferior to the Twins.

You “might” have a point, but this article didn’t make it.  Sorry.

I would take the Twins relief pitchers over the Astros' relievers. I realize this article is about the starters, however the relievers will be pitching 30% to 35% of the innings, even if the starters are going 6 innings. I also think the curse of the trash can will be a factor, even though the Astros will try to use the unending questions and the clever taunts to motivate themselves. 

I have five jars of the best spaghetti sauce you can buy. Still, it's just not the same as having a steaming plate of spag at a trattoria, which is Italian for expensive Italian restaurant. 

Granted, I can add good stuff to a jar of spaghetti sauce, which is why Johnson is here. Can he make these $3 dollar jars of sauce taste like a hundred bucks? 

Yummmmm.

The only starter that any opposition player from a team that is above .500 worries about facing the Twins is Berrios.

I wish Bailey was back in my division. Odorizzi is a good 5-6 inning pitcher who is beneficial to a team with good mid-inning relief. Hill at 41 years wouldn't be in the major leagues if he had been traded to a last place team instead of being serviceable by the Dodgers.

Maeda wasn't traded by the Dodgers because they thought he wasn't replaceable.

No wonder why I like the NL. Pitching is better except for Colorado which no pitcher can figure out.

I think McCullers will be limited as far as innings go this year, but don't kid yourself, when that guy pitches he is every bit as nasty as Berrios. So if he throws 130 - 140 innings and they are end of the year loaded the Stros will have a number 3 that is as good or better than our #1. The Twins have more depth probably, but to try and compare, Berrios, Odorizzi, Maeda, and Pineda to Verlander, Grienke, and McCullers is apples to oranges.

The Astros have so many question marks this year, predictions are more difficult than ever. So my opinion on the topic of the article is primarily focused just on the Twins side of the equation.

The Twins rotation is more than adequate for the regular season - Plenty of depth and more than enough quality with what appears to be a very good/deep BP. I will say this on the comparison there isn't a chance I would want to swap starting pitching staffs with the Astros. With that said a lot of that sentiment is based on factors beyond just production in 2020.

One note on the comments - there multiple comments placing the Astros as an elite post-season rotation (if they make the post-season). These comments are primarily based on Verlander and Greinke as the other three projected members of their rotation have minimal playoff experience. Last fall Verlander and Greinke combined to produce the following stats - IP - 60 1/3, ERA - 4.48, HR's allowed - 14. Not terrible stats, but I would argue definitely not elite.