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  • Front Office Signals Starting Rotation Might Be Complete- Should Fans Buy In?


    Melissa Berman

    During the post-MLB lockout period, Twins fans have been embroiled in a bit of a waiting game for the front office to add some more starting pitching depth. But now, with Opening Day about a week away, it seems time might be running out in the eyes of both fans and the Twins front office. Or is it?

    Image courtesy of Kareem Elgazzar via Imagn Content Services, LLC

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    On March 29, Twins President of Baseball of Operations Derek Falvey seemed to suggest that although the Twins making a trade for another starting pitcher is not off the table yet, Opening Day might be drawing too close to realistically get a deal done. This sentiment has resulted in some mixed feelings from Twins fans- namely frustration at a Front Office traditionally hesitant to spend on top tier starting pitching, and one that seemingly has done it again. We're out of time, they seem to be saying. Should fans buy this excuse?

     

     

     


    When free agency opened last fall, despite the lockout looming and a depleted starting rotation that was 25th out of the 30 MLB teams in ERA, the Twins only signed starting pitcher Dylan Bundy to a one-year, $4 million guarantee. While establishing a floor on the starting rotation, Bundy's 6.06 2021 ERA did not exactly whip pitching-hungry Twins fans into a frenzy. Other teams were plenty active during this pre-lockout time- many of the top-regarded starting pitcher free agents in this strong class were claimed, some of whom include: Max Scherzer, Kevin Gausman, Robbie Ray, Marcus Stroman, Noah Syndergaard, Eduardo Rodríguez, Justin Verlander, Jon Gray, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, Steven Matz, Corey Kluber and Alex Cobb. Of the top-regarded starters, only Carlos Rodón and Clayton Kershaw remained. Kershaw was regarded as unlikely to sign with Minnesota, anyway, so really, that just left Rodón. If the Twins planned to rebuild their rotation through free agency, they missed their chance pre-lockout.

    Once the MLB lockout ended on March 10, the Twins joined the league-wide free agent and trading frenzy and made a sizeable pitching move. Credit needs to given where it is due: on March 13, the Twins traded 2021 first round pick Chase Petty to the Cincinnati Reds for starting pitcher Sonny Gray, and part II of the offseason seemed to be off to a promising start. The Twins had a pressing need to numerically round out their starting rotation, and at 18 years old, Petty would not be ready to pitch for the Twins for at least five years. Because high quality free agents were no longer an option, the trade seemed to make sense. Gray has performed well in spring training and is primed to be the ace of the Twins rotation (though he might not be a top of the rotation guy elsewhere). However, it was obvious that one more arm was needed to round out the rotation in light of the Twins trading Jose Berrios and losing Kenta Maeda to injury last season- a rotation that already included Bundy, Bailey Ober and Joe Ryan- so Twins fans kept waiting. More had to be coming.

    But as the remaining top free agents, and then the third and fourth starters, disappeared off the board one by one and the days ticked by, the Twins rotation remained at four. According to this list, the Twins, arguably one of the most in-need of starting pitching teams in the MLB, signed exactly one of the top 25 free agent pitchers, Bundy, ranked 20th. With the free agent market now even more bare, it was evident that a trade now was needed to complete this rotation. But time kept passing. Articles were even written about how long the Twins could get by without a fifth starter. Rumored potential Twins trades involving Oakland Athletics pitchers Frankie Montas and Sean Manaea still have not panned out at the time of this writing. Twins beat reporters are swamped with memes in response to nearly every one of their tweets questioning the whereabouts of a certain Athletics pitcher. 

     

     

    Finally, on March 28, the Twins announced they had signed free agent pitcher Chris Archer to a 1-year deal. A fifth starter at long last. Archer has a high ceiling as a former two-time All Star with the Tampa Bay Rays, but he underwent surgery in 2020 for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and has played little since (19.1 innings in 2021), so it is difficult to predict his future success. He essentially fills the role left by former Twins pitcher Michael Pineda, who was a free agent this offseason too and seemed like a low-risk, high floor move for a rotation still in flux. However, the Twins made the conscious decision to move on from Pineda and did not contact him during free agency before he signed with the Detroit Tigers.

    Archer’s contract is only worth $3.5 million plus incentives, which leaves the Twins in a good financial position to make another signing. Archer's signing was met with mixed reactions from Twins fans. When he signed, a common sentiment was that that he could not possibly be the final missing piece to the 2022 starting rotation, right? Though the starting rotation has now been numerically rounded-out with the Archer signing, it is hard not to feel that there is still something missing, especially in light of the addition of Carlos Correa, a clear signal that the Twins intend on competing in 2022.  But then came Falvey’s quote.

    Falvey’s sentiment, which seems to suggest that there is not enough time to make moves to bolster the starting rotation in this “late stage” did not sit quite right with some Twins fans- me included. Yes, we are in the "late stage" of the offseason- we are about a week away from Opening Day. That is about as close to the 11th hour as you can get. But to be clear, the Twins are in a self-inflicted time crunch. They have no one to blame but themselves. Free agency began last fall and the Twins knew well where they stood at that time. The Twins front office throwing their hands up now and seemingly saying, “well, it’s too late now!” seems like a bit of a hollow excuse for fans, especially in light of the Correa signing that produced so much hope for the 2022 season’s success- not to mention ticket sales.The Correa signing resulted in a massive amount of tickets sold- over 100,000 from March 19 when the signing was announced until March 23.

    It was thought by some that this signing was practically conditioned on the fact that the Twins would be making some more big starting pitching moves- a starting rotation filled with firepower to complement a young, highly talented Twins batting lineup that appears to be top-to-bottom strong.  To put it humorously, as I wrote in a blog post in the immediate aftermath of the Correa signing,  “[m]ore pitching moves have to be coming. Having this starting rotation with Correa on your roster is like having Ikea furniture in your Lake Minnetonka mansion. Time to upgrade.” 

    None of this is intended as a knock on the non-Sonny Gray members of the rotation- Ober, Ryan and Bundy have experienced success during spring training and Archer is yet to debut for the Twins. The rotation on paper and as a whole just seems a bit lackluster given what was available on the free agent market months ago, and there are valid questions that can be asked regarding how some members of the rotation will perform over the course of an entire season. Ober and Ryan have not yet experienced a full season's starting pitcher workload in the MLB (In 2021, Ryan went 26.2 innings and Ober went 92.1). Archer is a wildcard both performance and durability-wise due to his injury history. More depth is needed in case any of the starting rotation members end up on the IL. There is very little room for error health-wise with the current rotation. 

    It’s true that a signing might still come and that Falvey would not necessarily show his hand if a trade was imminent, but considering one has not occurred and other teams are trying to nail down their Opening Day rotations as well, I am skeptical. And if the Twins do still make a trade before Opening Day, it shouldn’t be a “I told you so” moment- Twins fans have a right to be wary based on the team's past track record in regards to acquiring (or not) starting pitching. Fans have every right to expect more out of the team they love and financially support. So should Twins fans accept the front office’s excuse that they just ran out of time? I recognize that I am not in the negotiating war room, Maybe they tried extremely hard but just could not pry Montas and Manaea from the Athletics’ clutches despite giving great offers, and maybe they just could not land any of those free agents for the same reason, Maybe they just had bad luck. But history suggests otherwise. Out of time? I am not so sure we should let the front office off that easily. 

    So yes, where Frankie?

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    11 hours ago, KnoblauchWasFramed said:

    "win 84ish games" !?!?!?!   That's some top flight comedy right there.  Right now, this is a 90+ loss team.  Last year's rotation was considerably better than this one, and they lost 89 games.   And that's not even talking about the bullpen.

    Was it, though? You could make the argument that it was a more accomplished rotation going into the season with Berrios, Maeda, Pineda, Happ, and Shoemaker...but the rotation last season was dreadful and had zero depth. Berrios was the only one who was good and healthy (until getting traded) and even Maeda had a rotten start and overall was a below average pitcher even before having to shut it down.

    We gave 58 starts to pitchers with ERAs of 6+ (ok, I'm rounding up on Charlie Barnes' 5.92). Frankly, it'll take some real effort for Bundy and Archer to be worse than Happ & Shoemaker. Pineda was pretty good, but his various injuries limited him to 109 innings. Maeda had an ERA+ of only 91. I think Ober and Ryan will improve on that (YMMV on by how much). The issue is Berrios was better than any of them (even Gray, who was more like Pineda in terms of effectiveness, even if he was a bit healthier). 

    The floor is higher on the rotation from last year because a) the FA signings last season were so brutally bad, b) the depth behind them was also dreadful (until we brought up Ober & Ryan), c) this year's signings are likely to be less awful, and d) the depth behind them is more talented. Bring up the floor on the rotation and this team improves pretty quickly. Top end starters have more impact in the playoffs, but you don't even get there if you don't raise the floor.

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    3 hours ago, h2oface said:

    Absolutely. They blew it. This is what we have. I don't mind if the yankee visitors flame out too. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride when it comes to pitching. If we have a good one.... then they get rid of him. Even if our bats (which recently weren't rated that great compared to the other teams..... https://www.mlb.com/news/teams-with-best-lineups-in-2022?partnerId=zh-20220328-570896-mlb-1-A&qid=1026&utm_id=zh-20220328-570896-mlb-1-A&bt_ee=cdS1sErUAwyyoJTxwdz6C3f55NjhaPvLCdJ8smhEVxgoRo7JZe74VVRz0Lc6np6Y&bt_ts=1648475031986  ....... and didn't make the top 10 even..... score enough runs to get us into the playoffs, it sets us up to continue the record losing streak in the playoffs.

    MLB ranks of SP did not even have us in honorable mention.  Our BP did not make the ranks either.  The outsiders are not as excited as Twins fans and I do not think it is a coastal bias.  The note on the Twins in the honorable mentions is that Sano and Sanchez have to hit for the lineup to really be good. 

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    9 hours ago, Melissa Berman said:

    Agreed. I'm sure we will make a move at some point, especially if anyone gets banged up. We're not in the position to be desperate enough to sell the farm to Oakland. Their asking price must be ridiculous because likely they simply do not want to part ways

    According to the Athletic there never was a true "asking price" given

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    Wow.  Now we are attacking youth sports lol!  The Twins could very well be out of contention by end of April, first part of May like last year.  It's a shame to have so many good hitters and fielder's not backed up by major league pitchers.  35 million for a great one year shortstop?  We could have signed a top pitcher or two during the pre- lockout time. I'm still trying to figure out what the teams roster philosophy is this year.  We always go dumpster diving for old worn out and failed pitchers while waiting to the end.  Strange philosophy.

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    17 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

    A rotation that isn't composed almost entirely of bounce "bounce back candidates," and question marks? They have a lineup that can win playoff games, even with the downgrade at C and possibly 3B. There is/was plenty of room for at least 2, probably 3, solid starters while still prioritizing getting the younger arms innings. 

    You don't have to worry about gutting the team; if they don't have at minimum 2 reliable mid to front end starters from this prospect group that job is already well underway. 

    I'd prefer less question marks too.  Ultimately the FO is banking on the near-ready crop of arms they have.  Their future and the team's future hinges on those young arms.  I'm not sure acquiring Montas necessarily changes that either, fwiw.  (It'd help, certainly, but the eggs are in one basket at this point)

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    I just want to point out about possible signings or trades, that in 2018, many would have loved us to trade for Chris Archer.  Pretty sure many wrote about how we should.  If we had, we would have lost on that trade as after he was traded he pitched terrible and was injured.  

    The point is, pitching is volatile, they get injured, they fall off cliffs never pitching like they had earlier in their careers.  Guys that looked to be on way to HOF just stop pitching well for some reason.  I could list dozens and dozens over the last few decades that fit that bill.  Some do it after they sign big deals.  Everyone seems to think we would be better off with a vet late 20's to early 30's pitcher and assume they will be better than the young to mid 20's guys, simply because they have not pitched at MLB for long, or at all.  Several years of decent pitching does not mean this year will be any better.  

    The writer lists Cory Kluber as a signing made pre-lockout.  He had a good first half last year, but injury again cost him.  The last time he was good for a full year was 2018.  Not much different that Archer.  Rondon only good year was last year, his rookie year was decent.  Many of the others listed, outside of Scherzer have had down years and outlier years.  There is little reason to expect they will repeat their outlier year. 

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    1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

    You want to give the FO credit for trying. 

    In my world, you don't get extra MLB wins for trying. 

    As a wise old man once said, there is no try.

    I never said that.  I only pointed out that people express opinions as cold, had facts.

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    3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

    You want to give the FO credit for trying. 

    In my world, you don't get extra MLB wins for trying. 

    As a wise old man once said, there is no try.

     

    2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

    I never said that.  I only pointed out that people express opinions as cold, had facts.

    But you did close an argument in this thread with "The Twins' front office can only make attempts."  Unless... you draw a distinction between "attempt" and "try".

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    4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

    You want to give the FO credit for trying. 

    In my world, you don't get extra MLB wins for trying. 

    As a wise old man once said, there is no try.

    A wise old man never worked with humans. This is Fromm one who has It is not credit for trying, but it is not a demerit.

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    6 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

    Was it, though? You could make the argument that it was a more accomplished rotation going into the season with Berrios, Maeda, Pineda, Happ, and Shoemaker...but the rotation last season was dreadful and had zero depth. Berrios was the only one who was good and healthy (until getting traded) and even Maeda had a rotten start and overall was a below average pitcher even before having to shut it down.

    We gave 58 starts to pitchers with ERAs of 6+ (ok, I'm rounding up on Charlie Barnes' 5.92). Frankly, it'll take some real effort for Bundy and Archer to be worse than Happ & Shoemaker. Pineda was pretty good, but his various injuries limited him to 109 innings. Maeda had an ERA+ of only 91. I think Ober and Ryan will improve on that (YMMV on by how much). The issue is Berrios was better than any of them (even Gray, who was more like Pineda in terms of effectiveness, even if he was a bit healthier). 

    The floor is higher on the rotation from last year because a) the FA signings last season were so brutally bad, b) the depth behind them was also dreadful (until we brought up Ober & Ryan), c) this year's signings are likely to be less awful, and d) the depth behind them is more talented. Bring up the floor on the rotation and this team improves pretty quickly. Top end starters have more impact in the playoffs, but you don't even get there if you don't raise the floor.

    I agree - we might have lost a lot of games last year, but it was sunk at the start of the season.  We actually treaded water pretty decently towards the end, and that was without a few top flight players we just signed or traded for.  I don't see this as a 90 loss team, and neither do projections.

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    5 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

    I'd prefer less question marks too.  Ultimately the FO is banking on the near-ready crop of arms they have.  Their future and the team's future hinges on those young arms.  I'm not sure acquiring Montas necessarily changes that either, fwiw.  (It'd help, certainly, but the eggs are in one basket at this point)

    The decision to sit out the initial wave of FA removed any doubt about where the eggs were being placed. I don't think there's a singular acquisition that dramatically changes the outlook for this season, or the direction the FO has chosen, but from a stability standpoint, a front end arm is incredibly valuable beyond just the year at hand. The pitching situation seems bungled, even if the plan is to bet the next 5-6 years on this prospect group.  

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    I regularly expressed then dealt with my disappointment prior to the lock out. There was nothing reasonable to do afterwards to fix the rotation. 

    If they get more pieces now, it needs to come at the expense of Bundy and Archer. This economical approach to the rotation will never work unless it's mostly made up of internal top end starters. This was clearly the bed the team was trying to make too, so screwing around with the rookies has to stop. The young guys get long leashes, the Bundys/Archers/Haaps/Shoemakers/Perezs get the short leashes. Very, very short leashes.

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    1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

    I haven't bought in yet but I have money put aside for the purchase. 

    I'm waiting to see what the farm produces. 

    I wasn't expecting it, but by themselves, Ober and Ryan in their handful of starts provided me with better baseball memories than the combined free agent starting pitchers this team has signed the last half decade.

    Sign me up for more.

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