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  • Diving Into The Offseason: Rosario And Kepler Extensions?


    Seth Stohs

    Brian Dozier. Byron Buxton. Miguel Sano. Jose Berrios.

    Now that we’ve offered up suggested long-term contracts for those four players - at about a combined quarter of a billion dollars - today I’ll add two more players who could be in line for long-term extensions this offseason. While their deals won’t cost as much as the four above, they are also young players who have a chance to become really good and become spendy in a hurry.

    Today, I want to consider potential contract extensions for outfielders Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler.

    Image courtesy of Troy Taormina, USA Today

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    Max Kepler and Eddie Rosario are being lumped together today since they are both left-handed hitting outfielders. They both will be arbitration-eligible for the first time after the 2018 season.

    While they have different styles on the field, they have put up similar numbers. Rosario has 50 home runs in less than three years. Kepler has 36 home runs in less than two years. Rosario had his breakout season in 2017, but Kepler is one year younger.

    Eddie Rosario has 2.120 years of service time which left him just three days short of being a Super-2 arbitration guy this offseason. Max Kepler has 1.152 years of service time. Assuming he spends all of 2018 in the big leagues, he’s certain to be a Super-2 arbitration guy after the 2018 season. That also means that he will have four arbitration seasons.

    So where do we start with this discussion? Hey, I think that the ultimate comparable deal for these guys happens to be an infielder. A year ago, Jose Ramirez signed a long-term contract that will guarantee he’s in Cleveland from 2017 through 2021, and includes options for 2022 and 2023. The deal is five years and $25.5 million.

    In his All-Star 2017 season, he made $571,400. He’ll make $2.48 million in 2018, in what would have been his first arbitration season. That will be followed by salaries of $3.75 million and $6.25 million. The deal then will buy out his first free agent season for just $9.0 million. Cleveland will also have options for two more years, one at $11.0 million and the other at $13.0 million. Based on his 2017 season, that will prove to be a tremendous contract for Cleveland. What would he have made in arbitration coming off that year? $5 million? Maybe more? And, what would a long-term contract have cost Cleveland if they had waited until now? Probably $25-30 million just in his arbitration years, and then at least $18-20 million a year for a couple of free agent seasons. In fact, at that point, is there any true value for Cleveland not to just go year-by-year, other than keeping his rights into his free agent years?

    Here are some outfielders who have signed extensions in the last half-dozen years or so.

    ccs-19-0-81184500-1508980162.png

    Aside from Maybin, the others waited another year, until they had reached arbitration, to reach a long-term agreements. But the numbers still give some range for a potential deal for Rosario or Kepler.

    Here is a group of players who went year-to-year in arbitration. Nelson Cruz signed a one-year deal in his first arbitration deal. Then he signed a two-year deal after that.

    ccs-19-0-63602400-1508980185.png

    Finally, here is a group of outfielders who went through the arbitration process for the first time in 2017. This might give a good idea of what Rosario and Kepler could command or receive in arbitration next offseason.

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    That’s quite a bit of information for you to consume as you consider what the Twins should offer Max Kepler and Eddie Rosario in terms of long-term security. Below is a chart with two offers that I would start with, feeling that it is equitable for both the team and the player, understanding the risk/reward for each side. Again, it is important to note the distinction between the two players in terms of arbitration, as Kepler will have a fourth arbitration season before becoming a free agent.

    ccs-19-0-37480300-1508980375.png

    The deal above for Eddie Rosario equates to five years and $28.5 million. The first option year has a $1 million buyout, so it could be a six year, $41 million, and with a second option (also a $1 million option) could make it work seven years and $54 million.

    For Kepler, the contract is worth $48 million over seven years with an option that could make it work $61 million over eight years.

    In both cases, the player would likely prefer the deal be for two years less so that they could be free agents at age 30, but again, that is the risk for the player in a long-term deal and obtaining ten lifetime’s worth of guaranteed money.

    The Twins would have to make an assumption that Rosario will continue to improve his strike zone judgment and continue to become more consistent. For a Kepler deal at this time, the Twins would need to make an assumption that he will improve his performance against southpaws and continue to add more power.

    So, what do you think? Should the Twins have conversations with Max Kepler, Eddie Rosario, or both? What are the risk factors in your mind? What would you do as the Twins GM?

    That's what the Twins Daily Offseason Handbook is all about. If you haven't pre-ordered your copy yet, you can click the link below. You can even set your own price.

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    It's stupid because if you have a bunch of money today, it will be a much larger pile of money tomorrow if you follow some pretty basic steps.

     

    If you offered me $500,000 today or $50,000 per year for 20 years ($1m total), I'd take the $500k every time because I could turn it into way more than $1m very easily.

     

    And that's even if you're paying me double the amount over time and doesn't even include inflation expenses or anything of the sort. If you're offering me a 1:1 dollar ratio either front-loaded or back-loaded, I'm going to take the front-loading because it's so much better for me financially.

     

    And you'd think at least one agent in pro sports would be able to explain this concept to his client.

    Debating at a little cross purposes here.     I agree with you especially with paragraph 1, 3 and 4.    Especially 3!    In theory.   Its math, which doesn't lie.    But then you add in human nature.    You can give a guy 30 mil up front and 5 mil a year for 6 years which is much better than 10 mil a year for 6 years but if the player is going great he is going to downplay the upfront money after a few years and say "I am worth way more than 5 mil a year" and his agent who explained the front loading concept 3 years ago and pocketed the huge commission up front is going to say "I agree.  Lets go renegotiate for a 2 year extension that will pay you the 10 mil a year for the remainder of your contract and fair market value for the extra two years"

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    One thing I should have mentioned is that these guys may be the types where signing somewhat shorter deals may make sense. 

     

    Maybe Rosario gets a three year, $9 million deal... or maybe you sign Kepler to a 3 year, $8 million or a 4 year, $14 million.

     

    In that case, they would each have a year or arbitration-eligibility after the contract remaining. Eliminates a lot of the risk for the Twins. Even if they get hurt and miss  a year, the Twins only would overpay a couple of million. For the players, they may risk out on losing a couple million during those years, but they can become free agents earlier. 

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    As much as I love Kepler, I don't sign him. Even in the era of the live ball, he shows limited power. I'd try on Rosario, but he is a high beta player for sure, and people vastly over estimate his running and defense, imo. I like the idea of the Escobar deal, they need 3B/Sano insurance.

    in the post above where I ramble on about the Forbes info and just what 52% of revenue could mean...I've chosen to let Kepler get paid through arbitration each year

     

    Super-2 makes it a little more expensive, but hey you can always extend after the first year or two

     

    I could see Polanco being an arbitration only candidate as well

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    One thing I should have mentioned is that these guys may be the types where signing somewhat shorter deals may make sense. 

     

    Maybe Rosario gets a three year, $9 million deal... or maybe you sign Kepler to a 3 year, $8 million or a 4 year, $14 million.

     

    In that case, they would each have a year or arbitration-eligibility after the contract remaining. Eliminates a lot of the risk for the Twins. Even if they get hurt and miss  a year, the Twins only would overpay a couple of million. For the players, they may risk out on losing a couple million during those years, but they can become free agents earlier. 

     

    We don't know what the players situation is...does his family need money, a new house for Granny...I would GUESS that of the Young Core (Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Polanco, Rosario, Kepler) 2 of them would take a team friendly deal that nets them some long-term financial stability. Be that shorter years or smaller in AAV

     

    If I were betting Seth's collection of Christian Brothers Vintage Hockey Sticks I'd say Polanco, Kepler and Rosario will take team friendly deals

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    We don't know what the players situation is...does his family need money, a new house for Granny...I would GUESS that of the Young Core (Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Polanco, Rosario, Kepler) 2 of them would take a team friendly deal that nets them some long-term financial stability. Be that shorter years or smaller in AAV

     

    If I were betting Seth's collection of Christian Brothers Vintage Hockey Sticks I'd say Polanco, Kepler and Rosario will take team friendly deals

     

    It's hard to know...

     

    Byron Buxton got something like $6.5 million when he signed, but $50-70 million guaranteed is something entirely different. 

     

    Kepler and Polanco signed for $750K. Rosario probably signed for a couple hundred thousand. Sano signed for $3.15 million. I don't know what 'enough financial security' means. 

     

    And it's hard to know what will encourage people to sign, the risk-reward quotient. 

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    I wonder if recent global events may sway players feelings about signing an extension

    This would be an opportune time for the Twins to show how much they care about their players well being by extending an offer to those who could use it the most right now in light of the natural disasters several players families are dealing with

     

    I am not advocating this as a sound strategy/practice in general, but they are people and there is a  humanitarian side to taking care of employees...it could play a part

     

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    It's hard to know...

     

    Byron Buxton got something like $6.5 million when he signed, but $50-70 million guaranteed is something entirely different.

     

    Kepler and Polanco signed for $750K. Rosario probably signed for a couple hundred thousand. Sano signed for $3.15 million. I don't know what 'enough financial security' means.

     

    And it's hard to know what will encourage people to sign, the risk-reward quotient.

    I think you were light on Buxton, but he seems like he could be signable this offseason if the price is right. Polanco/Kepler/Rosario/Berrios would probably sign if the Twins are interested (or at least they should). Don't really see a path with Sano.

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    Sano is the wildcard factor, but I would try and get it done.  I would sign Rosario if the dollars made sense.  He might not be a superstar, but he could be a very good player.  Kepler I would wait a year and see how he turns out.  You do not need all three right away (Buxton, Rosario, Kepler).  You still have Rooker, Badaoo, Wade and maybe more in the minors.

    I like the outside the box signing of Escobar for 3 - 4 years at around $7 million a year.  It gives you some options.

    Polanco not mentioned here could be another target, but price would have to be very good.  Polanco and Escobar are the reasons I could see letting Dozier walk after next year.  Or you could make him a QO if you do not think the other middle infielders are ready yet.

    Twins revenue should be up next year (could be way up if the Twins content).  Let us start planning on it.

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    Wait at least a year on Kepler to see if he can hit lefties. If he can't improve on this you'd be over paying on him to be somewhat of a platoon player.

    Earl Weaver might have gotten too much credit for those 1970s Orioles, but he seemed good at finding what was right with players instead of what was wrong. One of his best achievements was crafting a decent "outfielder" out of John Lowenstein and Gary Roenicke. You can't platoon very much in this day and age, but if the downside of a contract is still having the dominant (lefty-hitting) half of a platoon with very good defense, that's a pretty limited downside, because finding a good RH bat for the OF isn't that expensive.

     

    Buxton hasn't proven who he really is offensively.

    If you wait until that, you will be paying much, much more.

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    Earl Weaver might have gotten too much credit for those 1970s Orioles, but he seemed good at finding what was right with players instead of what was wrong. One of his best achievements was crafting a decent "outfielder" out of John Lowenstein and Gary Roenicke. You can't platoon very much in this day and age, but if the downside of a contract is still having the dominant (lefty-hitting) half of a platoon with very good defense, that's a pretty limited downside, because finding a good RH bat for the OF isn't that expensive.

     

    If you wait until that, you will be paying much, much more.

    Yes and yes. A strong side platoon is barely a platoon at all. It's half pinch-hitting, half platoon with a guy who can kinda hit lefties and kinda man the position.

     

    With that said, Kepler has to post an OPS north of .500 or he's in trouble. I think he will but it'll take reps. Not a lot. I doubt he'll ever hit lefties over a .700 OPS but that's okay. Most lefties suck against lefties.

     

    He just needs to do enough that he's not an automatic out against LHP.

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