Despite Great First Impression, Royce Lewis Optioned to St. Paul After Tuesday's Game

17 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

QUIT TRYING TO MAKE PLAYERS VERSATILE.

Lewis needs to prove himself as a starting shortstop and is doing a very good job doing just that. Don't mess with him at other positions. 

Yes, he needs to play everyday, get the at bats, do the fielding, and NOT get hurt. More likely to do that in St. Paul than on the bench at Target, assuming Correa is healthy and will be in the line-up at short every single day from hereon out.

Rocco said Lewis will be playing several other positions than SS at AAA, so going off your first sentence, you shouldn't be happy about this...

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Your question isn't accurate. None of those players need to go anywhere. They can carry a max of 13 pitchers starting May 29th. They will carry 13 pitchers because they always do. Until then they're likely to carry 12 position players and 14 pitchers. 

12 position players: (Garlick would be in for Larnach until he comes back)
Byron Buxton
Carlos Correa
Jorge Polanco
Luis Arraez
Gio Urshela
Gary Sanchez
Ryan Jeffers
Nick Gordon
Gilberto Celestino
Max Kepler
Trevor Larnach
Royce Lewis

Then once they have to send a pitcher down on the 29th they can call Garlick back up. Or Miranda. Or Kirilloff. Or Godoy. Or Contreras. Or whoever in the world they want. But you can pose your Arraez, Urshela, Sanchez, Gordon, Celestino question all you want. None of them need to go anywhere in order to keep Lewis. As I've now said 3 times Kyle Galick, who is an awful defender and only hits against lefties, is the guy I would send down.

Yes, this is somewhat functional.  You already have Celestino as back-up OFer and Gordon's playing time would be in the OF as well given Urshela / Arraez are IFers.  This means you replace Arraez with Lewis at 1B.  Arraez has been a lot better there than I expected, BTW.  The other options are replacing Urshela at 3B or Corra at SS and he plays 4 days a week.  I don't see the gain over Arraez and he certainly is not an upgrade over Correa.  So, in very rough terms we gain a little when he replaces Urshela, break even when he replaces Arraez, and go down a little when he replaces Correa.  The immediate impact of him going down when Correa returns is not exactly a big loss,  It's not at all difficult to understand why they are opting to further prepare him for a return that is likely not far off.   

28 minutes ago, Five minute major said:

Thankfully the Twins offense is red-hot and not in need of one of its best hitters.   How ANYBODY can defend Baldelli is beyond me.   This move is nauseating.   

Baldelli isn't the one who decides who's on the 26-man roster.

I was bumfuzzled this morning when I read Lewis was sent down instead of Miranda. The Twins have struggled to score runs, so they elect to send down a guy who IS producing offensively, and keep a guy who clearly could benefit from some AAA at-bats? 

As usual, of course, I come to TD and discover a couple of things.

1 - I hadn't paid close enough attention to realize Garlick also has an option left. Of course, this just made me more confused, They could have demoted a LHP-hitting-only platoon option and kept both Lewis AND Miranda (since, sure, he has some defensive benefit at the moment)? 

2- But then, reading through the possible rationales for this move, I realized there was one more thing I had NEVER known...  Apparently, games you fail to win at the end of May don't matter as much as those you could lose at other points in the season, so banishing one of your hottest bats to St. Paul for at least a couple of weeks this time of year isn't really a big deal.

So glad to know that. Can't believe I never heard about that before, they say you learn something new every day.

As I've stated before, I'm torn on the entire subject.

I am disappointed Lewis was sent down, and I'm willing to bet this was discussed with Royce ahead of time so everyone was on the same page. And I'm sure this was discussed and understood before last night's game. If you look at this with a purely logical eye, it does make sense. He is their most prized prospect. He hasn't played in a real game for 2yrs due to covid and then injury. A hot start of 1 1/2 months guarantees nothing, even though he looks very good. They want him to be the best player he can be, both offensively and defensively. The simple fact that they are not planning on playing him exclusively at SS, but rather, moving him around to take advantage of his skills in order to keep him in the lineup, is very forward thinking, and actually pretty aggressive. They believe it's in everyone's best interest to get a couple/few weeks of doing this in a less pressure packed situation at AAA rather than at the ML level. MIranda stays up for now to help play 1B and then goes down when Larnach comes back. By then, they hopefully have figured out another option to back up there. Additionally, it may be the same time frame 

All perfectly reasonable and logical and practical. And I can't argue with this vehemently, even if I hate seeing him go down, even temporarily.

HOWEVER....not only is he performing well, so far at least, with the bat, but I don't see how you can transition Arraez to 1B and LF both on the fly, and Gordon to CF/OF on the fly, and then tell me Lewis can't do the same thing. So while I think they have the right approach to take advantage of all his talent and work him all around the field to maximize opportunity and his potential, I just don't understand why he needed to go down at this time vs the struggling Miranda. A good long view...but short-sighted in implimentation. 

Was cutting Gordon and having Lewis play LF for now considered? I like Nick but he is Nick Punto like both offensively and defensively.

25 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Yes, this is somewhat functional.  You already have Celestino as back-up OFer and Gordon's playing time would be in the OF as well given Urshela / Arraez are IFers.  This means you replace Arraez with Lewis at 1B.  Arraez has been a lot better there than I expected, BTW.  The other options are replacing Urshela at 3B or Corra at SS and he plays 4 days a week.  I don't see the gain over Arraez and he certainly is not an upgrade over Correa.  So, in very rough terms we gain a little when he replaces Urshela, break even when he replaces Arraez, and go down a little when he replaces Correa.  The immediate impact of him going down when Correa returns is not exactly a big loss,  It's not at all difficult to understand why they are opting to further prepare him for a return that is likely not far off.   

I can see where you and I differ - it's Lewis v. Urshela at 3B and Lewis v. Gordon/Garlick in LF. I agree that Lewis is not an upgrade from Correa by any stretch of the imagination, he's a downgrade. I think he's a slight upgrade from Arraez because he can hit same sided pitching and Arraez can't, and Lewis can actually competently play in the field, but I wouldn't waste Lewis at 1B. 

The big disconnect for me is why isn't Lewis playing 3B instead of Urshela and/or LF instead of Gordon or Garlick? He should be able to play close to as well or better in the field and he so far has shown himself to be the far superior hitter and athlete. No scholarships. Either Urshela, Gordon and Garlick produce or they sit or get cut when someone else produces.  Lewis is producing, all three of them are not. They sit or, in Garlick's case, get DFA'd and sent to St. Paul since it isn't likely anyone else will want a 30 year old OF who is a liability in the field and can't hit RH pitching. Why would we need to protect Gordon's playing time in the OF or keep Garlick around for those 20 – 30% of overall at bats that are against Left-handed pitching instead of keeping up a player who has shown the ability to hit, field, and run? Winning organizations find a place for that guy; they don't send him to AAA because it might be difficult to find him at bats. They find the bats at the expense of players who are not performing as well. That's what we should be doing.

Now this entire rant may go out the window if they send Lewis to AAA for a couple of weeks, have him play a couple days a week in the outfield and a couple days a week at both second and third base, and then bring him up and wind up playing him five days a week in some combination of shortstop, third base, second base, and left field. This is what winning teams would do to get an exciting player who improves the team on the field. Actually, winning teams would do this at the MLB level but obviously that's not going to happen. As I said earlier post on the subject, what this tells me is that the Twins are not committed to winning this year but are looking at this year as a developmental year for next year. If that's really the situation, and it sure is beginning to look that way, time for me to go back and follow the Dodgers and Angels this year and I'll check back in with you guys next season.

Gotta admit...

Isn't this a great problem to have?

Read a handful of comments and then skipped to the end, so apologies if this has already been beaten into the ground.

Royce is going to struggle at the MLB level at some point. Happens to everyone. Having him go through a major slump at the plate while being asked to learn a handful of different positions defensively is poor player development. From a confidence standpoint, sending him down to AAA after he has been successful at the MLB level is preferable to sending him down after the slump occurs.

Not an exact parallel here, but the Twins promoting Aaron Hicks to be their leadoff hitter and starting CF with no experience above AA significantly hindered his development. He was capable defensively while trying to figure out MLB pitching. Royce has shown he is able to hit MLB pitching, but with asking him to learn 2 or 3 new defensive positions on the fly, does he maintain the bat? Impossible to say since he is being sent down. Like everyone else, I am hoping it is a very brief stint in St. Paul before he returns to the big league club.

5 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

HOWEVER....not only is he performing well, so far at least, with the bat, but I don't see how you can transition Arraez to 1B and LF both on the fly, and Gordon to CF/OF on the fly, and then tell me Lewis can't do the same thing. So while I think they have the right approach to take advantage of all his talent and work him all around the field to maximize opportunity and his potential, I just don't understand why he needed to go down at this time vs the struggling Miranda. A good long view...but short-sighted in implimentation. 

 

This is an example of the FO using the convenient explanation and hoping nobody notices it's inconsistent with what they've done over and over again with other players. Lewis did not "need" to go down, and sending him down now could cost wins. It certainly doesn't INCREASE their chances of winning games he misses while he's in St Paul.

I won't say "The FO doesn't want to win this year." However, I will say the FO doesn't appear to be all that concerned about winning every game possible. Maybe that's fine. Maybe they feel they're going to win this weak division with several games to spare, or at least they feel there's a reasonable enough chance of that being the case that they're willing to roll the dice on it. 

As for the service time issue that's been brought up, I simply don't know where all that landed with the new deal MLB made with the Union, so I have no idea if that's even a consideration at this point. I would hope not. 

9 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

As I've stated before, I'm torn on the entire subject.

I am disappointed Lewis was sent down, and I'm willing to bet this was discussed with Royce ahead of time so everyone was on the same page. And I'm sure this was discussed and understood before last night's game. If you look at this with a purely logical eye, it does make sense. He is their most prized prospect. He hasn't played in a real game for 2yrs due to covid and then injury. A hot start of 1 1/2 months guarantees nothing, even though he looks very good. They want him to be the best player he can be, both offensively and defensively. The simple fact that they are not planning on playing him exclusively at SS, but rather, moving him around to take advantage of his skills in order to keep him in the lineup, is very forward thinking, and actually pretty aggressive. They believe it's in everyone's best interest to get a couple/few weeks of doing this in a less pressure packed situation at AAA rather than at the ML level. MIranda stays up for now to help play 1B and then goes down when Larnach comes back. By then, they hopefully have figured out another option to back up there. Additionally, it may be the same time frame 

All perfectly reasonable and logical and practical. And I can't argue with this vehemently, even if I hate seeing him go down, even temporarily.

HOWEVER....not only is he performing well, so far at least, with the bat, but I don't see how you can transition Arraez to 1B and LF both on the fly, and Gordon to CF/OF on the fly, and then tell me Lewis can't do the same thing. So while I think they have the right approach to take advantage of all his talent and work him all around the field to maximize opportunity and his potential, I just don't understand why he needed to go down at this time vs the struggling Miranda. A good long view...but short-sighted in implimentation. 

 

Well said. I just don't see any particular reason why Lewis can't get the "experience" he needs at the other positions at the MLB level. He isn't displacing any particularly good player. At 3B, Urshela is an outstanding glove who simply cannot hit very well. He is the utility player the Yankees thought he was. In LF, both Gordon and Garlick have severe limitations at the plate and neither is a particularly good outfielder. We also don't have a full-time DH so we have places to get at-bats for players either Lewis displaces or for Lewis himself.

Bottom line, play the guys who have earned playing time. Lewis has earned playing time on the Twins. Urshela, Gordon and Garlick have not. I'm not including Miranda because my assumption is that the moment Larnach is ready to play Miranda will be in AAA and until then he will rarely, if ever, see the field other than maybe at 1B against LH pitching, Urshela and Gordon are utility players, Garlick is a AAAA player, and Miranda is a AAA player (at the present time). Lewis at least looks like a MLB starting caliber player in his small sample size. He should be getting a larger sample size until he proves himself to be something else. This is just dumb and not well thought out. 

3 minutes ago, JW24 said:

Royce is going to struggle at the MLB level at some point. Happens to everyone. Having him go through a major slump at the plate while being asked to learn a handful of different positions defensively is poor player development. From a confidence standpoint, sending him down to AAA after he has been successful at the MLB level is preferable to sending him down after the slump occurs.

 

See, this is where you lose me... If struggling "happens to everyone," so it's inevitable with Lewis, then sending him down now just prolongs that event, doesn't it? I don't necessarily believe he MUST have some kind of inevitable meltdown beyond just regular slumps, but if the premise is correct, why wouldn't you want to get that out of the way sooner, than later? I simply don't buy that spending some time learning positions that are LESS demanding would threaten his sensitive psyche. 

Loved nearly everything Mike has said above, but I suppose he can be criticized for being reasonable.  But there sure are a lot of folks out this morning with a bunch of burrs under their saddles.

Like all of you, I think Lewis has surprised us with how well he has played and certainly earned the right to stick with the Twins.  We don't know what the future holds for Correa and the Twins?  Expect neither the Twins or Correa know?  So it is difficult for anyone to plan on what position Lewis will be playing next month or year.  Hopefully, they will get him back to St. Paul and where he plays will tell us a lot of what the answers are to those questions.