Cooperstown Case: Helping Joe Mauer’s Hall Chances

Currently Joe is #286 on the hit list with less than stellar stars - Shawn Green and Todd Zeile just above him.  He needs to get into more rarified air if he has a chance.

In walks Barry Bonds has 2558 and Ted Williams, Rickey Henderson and Babe Ruth are the only other ones with 2000. Joe has 900 - right behind David Justice and Ferris Fain and he is way behind his contemporary - Joey Votto who has 1001.  Since OBP is his top claim, he has a long ways to go.  

Put them together and get On Base percentage where Joe ranks 97 right behind Mike Tiernan with 392.   This is way behind contemporaries Miguel Cabrera 395 and Paul Goldschmidt 399 or Mike Trout 409.   That is not good enough to make the hall.

I really like Joe Mauer and he has been an excellent player who will be in the Twins Hall of Fame with Hrbek, Allison and other very good players who did not make the national HOF.   That is okay.  

​But looking at it realistically, he just is not going to be in Cooperstown.

Currently Joe is #286 on the hit list with less than stellar stars - Shawn Green and Todd Zeile just above him.  He needs to get into more rarified air if he has a chance.

 

In walks Barry Bonds has 2558 and Ted Williams, Rickey Henderson and Babe Ruth are the only other ones with 2000. Joe has 900 - right behind David Justice and Ferris Fain and he is way behind his contemporary - Joey Votto who has 1001.  Since OBP is his top claim, he has a long ways to go.  

 

Put them together and get On Base percentage where Joe ranks 97 right behind Mike Tiernan with 392.   This is way behind contemporaries Miguel Cabrera 395 and Paul Goldschmidt 399 or Mike Trout 409.   That is not good enough to make the hall.

 

I really like Joe Mauer and he has been an excellent player who will be in the Twins Hall of Fame with Hrbek, Allison and other very good players who did not make the national HOF.   That is okay.  

​But looking at it realistically, he just is not going to be in Cooperstown.

For his HOF case it probably would have been better if he had retired for 3 years and then come back after the concussion.   I think his career average at the time was .319 and his career OBP was .401.    The accumulation of hits just helped him get to 2000 hits but hurt him in every other way.    If voters took that kind of thing into consideration like with Puckett it might make a difference but I doubt they do.   Another batting title would do it.

"Mauer had been able to stay behind the plate, he could have gone down as one of the best hitting catchers of all-time."

"Best hitting" is a subjective term. The ONLY catcher in the history of MLB with three batting titles is not. Nor was Mauer a bat only catcher, he was one of the best defenders in the game. And while he doesn't have the power bat one would look for at 1B, most of those guys carry a steel plate in their glove. One last point: Even at his age, and after the concussions, I would doubt a poll of MLB pitchers on who in the league they would least like to face with two out and the winning run in scoring position, would not include Mauer, very near the top.

Why is there so much being written about Mauer and the Hall of Fame? The world will not end if he gets in or does not get in. The anxiety that he might not get in is parochial. Why not wait until he retires to assess if he belongs in the Hall? What we are getting in these threads is often provincial--one needs a lot of historical context to reframe a presentist perspective.

Currently Joe is #286 on the hit list with less than stellar stars - Shawn Green and Todd Zeile just above him.  He needs to get into more rarified air if he has a chance.

 

In walks Barry Bonds has 2558 and Ted Williams, Rickey Henderson and Babe Ruth are the only other ones with 2000. Joe has 900 - right behind David Justice and Ferris Fain and he is way behind his contemporary - Joey Votto who has 1001.  Since OBP is his top claim, he has a long ways to go.  

 

Put them together and get On Base percentage where Joe ranks 97 right behind Mike Tiernan with 392.   This is way behind contemporaries Miguel Cabrera 395 and Paul Goldschmidt 399 or Mike Trout 409.   That is not good enough to make the hall.

 

I really like Joe Mauer and he has been an excellent player who will be in the Twins Hall of Fame with Hrbek, Allison and other very good players who did not make the national HOF.   That is okay.  

​But looking at it realistically, he just is not going to be in Cooperstown.

because Joe spent his prime years as a catcher (no one today expects a catcher to grind through 162), his counting stats are going to be lower than guys you're comparing him to, all of whom played far less stressful defensive positions. Beyond that, calling Paul Goldschmidt a contemporary, especially in OBP, is distinctly unfair: Goldschmidt has played 7 full seasons, Mauer is at 14. Goldy has played his entire career at 1B, Joe spent his first 10 years getting beat up at catcher...which is why in making a Cooperstown Case most of us are looking at other catchers as relevant comps.

As noted earlier: absent injury, Joe should pass both Johnny Bench and Mike Piazza on the hit chart this season. How rare does the air need to be?

There's over 125 years of professional baseball history and we're 70 years past the color line being broken (thank god). According to several statistical analyses, Joe Mauer is one of the top 15 catchers of all-time. You've got an awfully small Hall if that's not good enough.

Joe is a Hall of Famer right now in my opinion (he compares favorably with Ernie Lombardi and similarly to Mickey Cochrane, two unquestionable Hall of Famers). What he does in the next few years is about trying to convince the naysayers. He'll likely add another few hundred hits, assuming he plays this season and maybe 2 more. Winning a Gold Glove a 1B sure would help: it's a rare achievement to win at two different positions, and certainly adds to the resume. If he somehow manages to pull off another batting title? it would be absurd to exclude him.

Why is there so much being written about Mauer and the Hall of Fame? The world will not end if he gets in or does not get in. The anxiety that he might not get in is parochial. Why not wait until he retires to assess if he belongs in the Hall? What we are getting in these threads is often provincial--one needs a lot of historical context to reframe a presentist perspective.

I am also a little curious why there have been so many of these.   I have the same level of anxiety about Mauer getting in as I do of Oliva getting in which is to say none.    Its just a minor debate or intellectual exercise.   Pick any of the topics on the board and I can make a world not ending comment about it.   Is Berrios an ace?  Was sending Lamarre down a smart move?   Why did Lindor make the comment about not trying to offend the Twins with a home run celebration?   None of it matters in the big scheme of things.   All of it just falls under hobby and Mauer is just one of the many many sub sets of that hobby.

If one did not discuss things like this on this site, there wouldn't be much use for, or of the site. Then what would Brock do? That thought alone should motivate us, and make no topic too trivial to pursue. . As an aside, I have no angst over anyone making, or not making a HOF. But there's still a foot of snow in my backyard.

As a catcher, he was Cooperstown bound, even with a short career because of the batting titles alone.

Even if he doesn't hit 3,000 hits, he still has a decent on-base-percentage.

He can't have an average slump like he did for anymore of his playing days.

And he will have to know when to hang it up. One year from now, three years from now?

Of course, have a super year would help, too. Like batting .400 (not going to happen).

can't help wondering if joe ever read the schoolboy book called "the kid who batted 1.000," about a country-hick chicken farmer who plays townball with an uncanny knack for fouling off every strike until he inevitably earns a walk.

the kid gets scouted, hooks up with a last-place major-league team, continues to work his on-base magic and leads them to the world series. along the way, however, he becomes frustrated with "merely" walking in every at-bat -- and his one and only non-walk is a home run to win the world series. he finishes his career 1-for-1, then retires to the chicken farm with his 1.000 intact.

can't help wondering if joe ever read the schoolboy book called "the kid who batted 1.000," about a country-hick chicken farmer who plays townball with an uncanny knack for fouling off every strike until he inevitably earns a walk.

 

the kid gets scouted, hooks up with a last-place major-league team, continues to work his on-base magic and leads them to the world series. along the way, however, he becomes frustrated with "merely" walking in every at-bat -- and his one and only non-walk is a home run to win the world series. he finishes his career 1-for-1, then retires to the chicken farm with his 1.000 intact.

Don't know about Joe, but I sure did. Great classic from my childhood. 

Also by the same author is a biography -- Ryan LaMarre: The Kid Who BABIPed 1.000. 

The Hall of Stats (which I might add is a very good site) has Joe Mauer being inducted into that Hall of Fame.

http://www.hallofstats.com/player/mauerjo01

Fair or not, a world series championship would help too.  I'm like a few others that have posted, I don't really care if he makes the HOF.