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  • ...and Then There Were Three


    Steven BUHR

    It was three-and-a-half weeks ago that General Manager Terry Ryan announced that manager Ron Gardenhire would not be returning to his job in 2015, and we still don’t know who will be guiding the Twins on the field next season.

    But we’re getting closer.

    Image courtesy of Tom Szczerbowski-USA TODAY Sports

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    After considering, by my count, at least seven or eight candidates during the first two weeks of the offseason, Ryan set aside the managerial search while he holed up in Fort Myers with his staff for their annual week of postseason organizational meetings, though reports are that he did find time for a second interview with Doug Mientkiewicz while in Florida.

    Coming out of those meetings, media reports indicate that several candidates have been informed they are no longer being considered and, while the Twins are characteristically tight-lipped on the subject, it appears that the list of potential skippers has been whittled down to three: Paul Molitor, Doug Mientkiewicz and Torey Lovullo.

    Looking at them, it would appear that there isn’t a lot of difference. All three are white, middle-aged men. Mientkiewicz is the youngest, at 40. Molitor the oldest at 58. Lovullo splits the difference at 49.

    There's not a lot of “diversity” readily apparent by looking at them, so if Ryan is going to make good on his pledge to add more of a Latin presence on the staff, it will need to come from among the coaches that he and the eventual manager hire.

    But when you dig deeper, you see that there are plenty of differences among these three gentlemen and if you’re the Twins, you have an opportunity to make a statement with this hire concerning what traits are most important to you, as an organization. The question is, what kind of statement are you looking to make?

    http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Molitor.jpg

    Paul Molitor (Photo: SD Buhr)

    If you’re looking to say, “We have a youth movement brewing and we are going to do what we did when we hired Tom Kelly – hire a manager who has already spent time watching, evaluating and coaching the young players who will form the core of the next generation of Twins players,” then your first choice is Mientkiewicz. He has had two successful seasons in Fort Myers while managing Miguel Sano, Byron Buxton, Jose Berrios and the rest of a very talented “class” of minor leaguers currently rising through the ranks.

    Paul Molitor gets a few points in this category, too, however. He spent time as a roving minor league instructor prior to his one season on the Twins major league bench, so he also has a lot of familiarity with these rising stars.

    If the statement the Twins want to make is, "We want the most qualified man for the job of managing a Major League baseball team," the decision becomes a bit murkier.

    Molitor does not have a single day of experience as a manager at any level of professional baseball. If managing only involved the work required between the time you fill out a line-up card and the final pitch of the game, I don’t think experience would be an issue for Molitor. It’s hard to imagine any circumstance arising that he has not prepared for during his Hall of Fame playing career and his time on coaching staffs at various levels. Anyone who has had even a short conversation with him about baseball will likely tell you that his baseball IQ level is off the charts. Also (and this is important), he apparently understands that he can always learn more and is open to doing so.

    But game management is not all a manager has to do. There’s media relations and public relations and front office communication and clubhouse relations… and… and…

    It’s a big job and while I don’t think it’s impossible for someone who has never managed at any level before to be successful, I do think that having some amount of experience in a managerial position is helpful. Without it, Molitor would very much be “learning on the job” when it comes to off-the-field aspects of the position for a year or two.

    For whatever reasons, family or otherwise, Molitor has chosen not to take opportunities to get that experience by managing at the minor league levels. Should that disqualify him from consideration? Absolutely not. Should he get a free pass on this factor if other qualified candidates have emerged who HAVE that experience? No. He made the decision not to take that route and if that turns out to be a determining factor in him not getting the job this time, so be it.

    If the Twins had narrowed their choices down to Mientkiewicz and Molitor, I would not consider the former’s two years in the Fort Myers dugout to be much, if any, of an advantage. Other managers in the Twins organization, such as Gene Glynn (AAA), Jeff Smith (AA), Jake Mauer (low A) and Ray Smith (rookie) all have far more minor league managerial experience than Mientkiewicz.

    Yes, Mientkiewicz has had successful teams both years in Fort Myers, but take a look at his rosters those two years. If you can’t win a few games with those guys, you really are in the wrong line of work.

    Personality-wise, you have very different men. Molitor seems to bring a cerebral intensity to the game, while Mientkiewicz is all about the fire and he doesn’t even pretend to contain it.

    Both would bring a familiarity with the Twins organization to the job, without the baggage of being one of “Gardy’s boys.” There are various reports and rumors out there concerning how well (or not well) these guys got along with the Twins’ former manager, but it’s probably safe to say neither would be prone to adopting any approach to managing simply because that was the way Ron Gardenhire would have done it.

    So, depending on what he decides is the most important quality in a manager, Terry Ryan has an acceptable internal choice in either Molitor or Mientkiewicz.

    Want someone who will get in the face of players and umpires? Doug’s your guy.

    Want a brilliant baseball mind? I doubt you could do better than Molitor.

    Want someone open to utilizing more advanced analytics? Molitor appears so inclined, though there are indications Mientkiewicz is more of a “gut feel” kind of guy (though, to be fair, the amount of detailed analytics available to minor league managers is limited and their job is more to develop talent than to win games).

    Want someone who has the credentials as a player to garner respect among the troops? Molitor’s a Hall of Famer and Mientkiewicz has a World Series ring and sufficient MLB experience to give him plenty of credibility.

    If you want someone familiar with the players who are moving up through the organization and are preparing to arrive at Target Field over the next two or three years, both men have that familiarity, though in somewhat different amounts.

    The only thing neither man has would be the “fresh set of eyes” that some would consider helpful, if not critical, to this organization.

    Which brings us to the third finalist for the Twins managerial job, Torey Lovullo.

    Lovullo has nine years of experience managing in the minor leagues, including time at both the AA and AAA levels, which neither internal candidate can say. There is little doubt that, of the three, he would be the most prepared to handle all aspects of the job on the first day he’s in the position.

    Lovullo has experience as a “second-in-command” bench coach at the big league level. Molitor was part of Tom Kelly’s bench staff for a time and was a hitting coach for the Mariners for one year. All of that experience is at least a decade old, however. He was on Gardenhire’s bench this past season. Mientkiewicz has not held a field manager/coach job above Class A.

    From all accounts, Lovullo has a baseball mind and eye for detail that may not be quite on par with Molitor’s, but isn’t all that far behind it.

    He not only is “open” to new ideas, he has a history of actively seeking them out.

    Based strictly on a managerial/coaching résumé, there doesn’t appear to be much doubt that Lovullo is more qualified, right now, to be a big league manager.

    But we all know this choice doesn’t just come down to that factor. We knew it when Terry Ryan told the media that he would be looking at both internal and external candidates, that what was important was finding the “right” person, but that, “ideally,” that choice would come from inside the organization. We’ve known it all along.

    Here is what Lovullo does not have:

    • Experience as a Major League manager
    • Significant successful Major League playing experience (Lovullo was, in today’s parlance, a “replacement level player,” who saw big league time as a utility infielder in eight seasons, but played in over 100 games just once, putting up a .224 career batting average)
    • Direct experience within the Twins organization

    The first two points are really not factors at all. None of this group of finalists has big league manager experience and I think history has pretty much borne out that experience as a player in the majors is not predictive of success as a manager. He successfully climbed the ladder and reached “the Show.” That should be all the credibility he needs with a group of young players who have been doing the exact same thing.

    But then there is the final bullet point.

    And really, that’s what we knew it would come down to all along, isn’t it?

    An objective look at the qualifications of these three guys (albeit an outsider’s look, given that we aren’t privy to information in background checks or reference checks, etc.) would seem to tell us Torey Lovullo is the most qualified of the group to manage in the Major Leagues.

    But will Terry Ryan and the rest of the Twins leadership really be comfortable turning over the manager’s office to an outsider – someone whom they have absolutely zero experience dealing with outside of a job interview that reportedly went extremely well?

    If Mientkiewicz doesn’t get the job, he’ll almost certainly remain in the organization, either back in Fort Myers or in Chattanooga, most likely.

    But if Molitor doesn’t get the gig, there is probably some serious doubt as to whether he would remain in the Twins organization at all. Make no mistake, he has been a valuable resource in the roles he’s played with the Twins, whether as a roving minor league instructor or a coach with the Twins. Passing over him may cost the organization that resource altogether.

    Given the competition he’s up against, I don’t see Mientkiewicz getting this job. I think it’s down to Molitor and Lovullo.

    When it comes right down to making that decision, I don’t think Ryan and Jim Pohlad will give the position to even a highly qualified outsider. I think we’ll be seeing Paul Molitor named the manager within the next week or so.

    If that’s the case, I’m fine with it. I like Molitor and I think he could be successful in the role, given the right coaching staff and resources (both in terms of players and technology) to compete.

    Choosing Lovullo, on the other hand, would not only surprise me, but would give me a little extra optimism that things at One Twins Way are actually changing and while I already have considerable respect for Terry Ryan, making this sort of choice would significantly raise that level of respect.

    It would be an uncharacteristic choice. It would be a bold choice.

    It also, I am coming around to believing, would be the right choice.

    This article was originally posted at Knuckleballsblog.com

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    Great article, well written.

     

    If they're not going to interview Dave Martinez or Charlie Montoya for the job, of the three candidates mentioned, I'd go for Lovullo. I'm just sick and tired of the "Twins Way." The Twins Way is losing the last 4 years. It's slow to embrace analytics. Slow to adopt power pitching arms. Slow to do just about everything that winning teams have/are doing.

     

    I think an outsider would have more guts to stand up to Ryan and Pohlad, if needed.

     

    My question is--why is this process taking so long? Seriously. Are they going to wait until the World Series is over before making an announcement so as not to be seen as trying to steal its thunder? (As if naming the Twins manager would deflect anyone from the WS!)

    Edited by powrwrap
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    I have no idea which of the three will make the best manager, but I'd like to see the Twins get back to playing strong fundamental baseball. A recent article included a quote from an ex-twin during the WS era, something to the effect of "we knew when we took the field we would be fundamentally better than the opponent".

     

    That has not been the case for a long time, and I'd say the fundamentals have deteriorated as long as Gardenhire has been managing. Defense, base running, pitching....we are bested at fundamentals on a regular basis. We know the ownership isn't going to outspend anybody...the only hope is to play better baseball. If we don't improve on the basics we're doomed to mediocrity.

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    Great article, well written.

     

    If they're not going to interview Dave Martinez or Charlie Montoya for the job, of the three candidates mentioned, I'd go for Lovullo. I'm just sick and tired of the "Twins Way." The Twins Way is losing the last 4 years. It's slow to embrace analytics. Slow to adopt power pitching arms. Slow to do just about everything that winning teams have/are doing.

     

    I think an outsider would have more guts to stand up to Ryan and Pohlad, if needed.

     

    My question is--why is this process taking so long? Seriously. Are they going to wait until the World Series is over before making an announcement so as not to be seen as trying to steal its thunder? (As if naming the Twins manager would deflect anyone from the WS!)

     

    Please don't confuse "the Twins Way" as being some all encompassing thing based simply on the past 4 years. The "Twins Way" when employed properly, is sound all around baseball. It's a solid rotation, usually anchored by a couple studs, and a quality bullpen. It's quality defense, and a mix of aggressive hitting and base running with a blend of power, speed and hitting while also employing situational hitting. Yes, it's easy to dismiss this as "just good baseball". And that is true, but only to a certain degree. There has been conversation and debate, for instance, of the Royals way or the Orioles way of doing things lately. Historically, there has been the AL power, station to station game vs the NL speed and defense and situational way of doing things. At their best, winning seasons, the Twins have found a nice mix of all approaches.

     

    And it's usually been accomplished with smart baseball moves, relying on the milb system, using key trades and FA signings to augment the roster, and even some key waiver-wire FA acquisitions. There have been years, certainly, where the Twins just didn't have the horses to make it work. But TK won 2 World Series with it, and while Gardenhire never won one, and trails TK in overall wins, he also produced, I believe, more winning seasons and playoff appearances.

     

    Don't dismiss what the "Twins Way" really is just due to 4 disappointing seasons.

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    My question is--why is this process taking so long? Seriously. Are they going to wait until the World Series is over before making an announcement so as not to be seen as trying to steal its thunder? (As if naming the Twins manager would deflect anyone from the WS!)

    Generally, MLB teams are not permitted (or at least strongly dissuaded by the MLB office) from making any newsworthy announcement during the World Series. They MAY be allowed to make announcements on off-days during the Series.

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    I confess to not knowing much about Martinez, other than knowing him as a solid ballplayer, but I am confused and a bit disappointed he apparently didn't get an interview. Especially consider his experience with Maddon and the Rays. But, maybe there was no permission given.

     

    I think the search, thus far, seems to be pretty thorough. I don't believe Ryan has simply been giving lip service to a well rounded search. Lovullo's candidacy is proof of that, in my opinion. But I am confused as to continued angst to the Twins looking "internal" for their final choice.

     

    Sure Molitor has spent the past few years coaching in the Twins system, and drawing rave reviews from the very players he would be expected to manage, but he also coached for Seattle, spent the majority of his HOF career in Milwaukee, and spent three seasons with Toronto before his three seasons with the Twins. So what exactly makes him solely a Twins insider? (Even though that's not necessarily a bad thing)

     

    Dougie M was drafted and developed by the Twins, but also spent time with the Royals, Mets, Pirates, Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees. He played 12 years, or at least parts of, 7 with the Twins. But because he started with the Twins, then was well thought of enough to come back to the organization as a milb manager, he's exclusively an "insider"? (Again, I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing)

     

    I actually find that kind of funny and kind of insulting, both because it suggests the Twins are somehow inept on all levels, which is most definitely not the case, but also because it seems to indicate the Twins cloning a certain type of coach/manager.

     

    Let me ask you, if Molitor and/or Mientkiewicz coached last season for another organization the way Redmond and LeCroy did, would that make them a better candidate?

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    Sure Molitor has spent the past few years coaching in the Twins system, and drawing rave reviews from the very players he would be expected to manage, but he also coached for Seattle, spent the majority of his HOF career in Milwaukee, and spent three seasons with Toronto before his three seasons with the Twins. So what exactly makes him solely a Twins insider?

    Outside of that one disastrous 2004 season with Seattle (a year which presaged a decade-long absence from the dugout), Molitor is farther removed from working in another organization than Gardenhire was when he became Twins manager.

     

    I don't think of him as too much of an insider, though.  Actually, at this point, I worry less that the Twins might seek the comfort of the familiar Molitor, and more that Molitor only seems to seek the comfort of the familiar Twins.

     

    (Also, can Molitor be fun and interesting?  Genuinely curious.  I think the entertainment factor of managers is being way under-rated around here. :) )

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    Torey Lovulla is not going yo sell tickets! I think the organization thinks Dougie  is impetious and rubs the likes of Ryan and Kelly the wrong way at times. Molitor may not be "one of the boys" either, but they respect him and the casual fans may be inclined to buy tickets in the short term. By 2016 the Twins exciting new talent will sell plenty of tickets on their own!

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    Other than Ozzie (whom I would not want), I don't think any manager would have that much impact on ticket sales. And with Ozzie, I'd only be interested in seeing the train wreck.

     

    ....OK, I think Maddon would sell tickets -- just had no idea he'd be available.

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    Whoa, what's up in Tampa?

     

    Even if the Twins can't lure Maddon, maybe they will turn their attention to some of the Tampa bench coaches now?

    We were discussing on some thread somewhere (I lose track) the fact that Dave Martinez not only wasn't interviewed for the Twins job, but really never mentioned for any other manager opening. Maybe we just found out why. Since Maddon had a 2 week window after their GM left to opt out of his contract, it might make some sense that the Rays would not grant permission for other teams to talk to him, just in case this sort of thing happened. Have to assume he would be a front-runner for the Rays' job now.

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    Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 5m5 minutes ago 
    GM meetings start Nov. 10 in Phoenix, but Terry Ryan said new mgr doesn't have to be in place by then. By winter meetings in December, yes.

     

    Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 14m14 minutes ago 
    Terry Ryan on Maddon: "Everybody was hoping I would hurry up and get a manager. 'What’s taking so long?' Now everybody sees this." #MNTwins

     

     

     

    Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 21m21 minutes ago 
    Terry Ryan said he has yet to offer #MNTwins managing job to anyone.

     

    Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 20m20 minutes ago 
    Nor has Terry Ryan received outside requests to interview any holdover coaches.

     

    Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 18m18 minutes ago
    Terry Ryan also said #Rays have not asked permission to interview any #MNTwins employees for newly vacant mgr job.

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