Trade Deadline Tracker: Twins' News and Rumor Roundup

Buxton and Berrios: trade neither and retool or trade both and rebuild. If both, the Padres better have quite the offer

Demoralizing loss yesterday. I feel for our batters, and to hear a trade of Berrios isn't going to be helpful. What are we doing? Seems impossible to believe a trade this week of Berrios helps us next year. Pohlad just said we're competing next year, no blow up. We already have no pitching. Yesterday was just stupid. FO literally made the worst signings they could. We will get zero for all of them, Happ/Robles/Colome/Shoemaker. 

14 minutes ago, In My La Z boy said:

Seems impossible to believe a trade this week of Berrios helps us next year.

Yeah, I mean this seems to be the key.

If the Twins plan to compete in 2022, I don't see how subtracting Berrios and/or Buxton will accomplish that. Even if the return is stellar, we likely wouldn't be seeing any help from that haul until 2023-24.

Essentially if the Twins trade Berrios, it seems to me they're waving the white flag on 2022 and expect to compete with core of Kirilloff, Royce Lewis, and Balazovich in a few years and they're going all in with those guys. Meanwhile Josh Donaldson will spend his last 2 years of his big contract floundering for a rebuilding club.

Really tough spot for the Twins.

I am wondering what the FO is thinking.  We moved first with Cruz and then we have sat back and waited.  As your report shows, two potential and good trade options for Donaldson and Kepler seem to have vanished.  What are we waiting for?  I am very worried that when, if, they move we will severely weaken the team in ways that will be hard to fix.  I am not interesting in more RP dumpster diving, or signing old pitchers who might have one more good year in them.  The clock on the site is a countdown, but also reminds us of how time is running out on so many levels.  When a 17 - 14 loss follows the ticking of the clock (actually I am glad it does not tick).

40 minutes ago, bighat said:

Yeah, I mean this seems to be the key.

If the Twins plan to compete in 2022, I don't see how subtracting Berrios and/or Buxton will accomplish that. Even if the return is stellar, we likely wouldn't be seeing any help from that haul until 2023-24.

Essentially if the Twins trade Berrios, it seems to me they're waving the white flag on 2022 and expect to compete with core of Kirilloff, Royce Lewis, and Balazovich in a few years and they're going all in with those guys. Meanwhile Josh Donaldson will spend his last 2 years of his big contract floundering for a rebuilding club.

Really tough spot for the Twins.

Falvine created this 'tough spot' for the Twins themselves (totally self inflicted).  Litterally every move made this offseason has been a disaster (they r the only ones in the org batting 1.000).  Add in the very poor Sano extension and very regrettable errors on our own minor leaguers (Badoo, Wade, etc..)  And now it is looking possible that they will not be able to pull off any other positive direction moves.

Other orgs (Tampa, Cleveland, St. Louis, Oakland) can let player go/trade and retool within a short period of time.  Twins front office from Ryan to Falvine have proven they cannot time and time again.  A strong front office (as the teams referenced have) would be able to execute the move of Berrios and even a Buxton or Kepler and continue to move forward.

36 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I am wondering what the FO is thinking.  We moved first with Cruz and then we have sat back and waited.  As your report shows, two potential and good trade options for Donaldson and Kepler seem to have vanished.  What are we waiting for?  I am very worried that when, if, they move we will severely weaken the team in ways that will be hard to fix.  I am not interesting in more RP dumpster diving, or signing old pitchers who might have one more good year in them.  The clock on the site is a countdown, but also reminds us of how time is running out on so many levels.  When a 17 - 14 loss follows the ticking of the clock (actually I am glad it does not tick).

Mike, would you take Gore for Berrios, straight up? I doubt the Padres do it but I'd take that deal in a second. 

It will not be a failure to set the bar high and end up keeping Buxton and Berrios at the deadline. A failure would be to trade them for a larger quantity of lesser prospects. The Rangers may well come out ahead with the volume of Yankee prospects but I think the likelihood of getting an elite player is significantly reduced.

They do need to move Pineda and hopefully Simmons for the best they can get.

There are a few possible sell high opportunities in Donaldson and Thielbar. Their value will decline. The same may be true about Duffey.

They do need to move on from Happ, Robles and probably Colome. Keeping Belisle instead of looking at Anderson was a huge mistake. They can’t make that same mistake with Hamilton by keeping Robles around.

27 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

Mike, would you take Gore for Berrios, straight up? I doubt the Padres do it but I'd take that deal in a second. 

Gore has been a super-touted pitching prospect in the past, but I've read that his recent performance has been iffy. That's a lot to bank on if you're trading the best pitcher you've developed in years. If it's a 1-for-1 swap, I think the Twins would be the ones to say no.

Yeah, it's looking like the decisions made in the next 29 hours will have a massive effect on the look and expectations of this club for the next 221-383 games.  If Berrios does get traded, Falvine is going into the off-season with a 2022 starting rotation of Maeda, Ober, Dobnak, Jax, ?.  If I'm Robbie Ray or someone similar,  I'm laughing at any reasonable offer to come to Minnesota.  It would have to be a huge overpay.

I don’t know about Gore but the concept of buying low as the Rays did with Glasnow and Meadows should be considered. 

I am as frustrated as y'all.  We don't know what the discussions have been and with who.  Yes, there have been lots of reports, but were the reporters in the room or on the phone?

I am hopeful that the Twins have been holding firm on their demands for Berrios and perhaps Pineda as well.  With Cruz gone for an excellent return, those are the two that can bring the best return.  Hopefully, they will get Pineda moved later today and if Berrios doesn't get moved, he can still be moved this winter or signed to an expensive extension.  As for moving the other minor pieces, they ain't gonna get much of a return.  Hopefully, they can get a couple deals done to save a few bucks, open a roster spot and get an A-ball lottery ticket.

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

I am wondering what the FO is thinking.  We moved first with Cruz and then we have sat back and waited.  As your report shows, two potential and good trade options for Donaldson and Kepler seem to have vanished. 

I'd prefer to keep Kepler, and trading Donaldson's contract was never going to be easy. 

I think this deadline is playing out the way it probably should for the Twins. Patience is key here. The Cruz trade was the right move because the offer was good enough to move early. It looks like the rest of the offers have not been good enough. My view:

1. Don't trade Buxton, sign him. From what I read, the $80m guarantee is over 7 years is acceptable to both, the issue is the size of the escalators. There is a deal there, make it. The only way a midmarket team can keep someone this talented is to get lucky and take risk. That's what we need to do here.

2.  Only trade Berrios now if you get a huge package. From the Dodgers, it must include either a Dustin May or Gavin Lux type player, +1 of their top starting pitching prospects like Gray or Peipot, plus an A+ or AA pitcher or shortstop with upside. Do not trade him unless you can get that. If all we're being offered is a lesser package, we can get that over the winter and it gives us a chance to re-sign him. Consider trading Donaldson to create the payroll space to give the money to Berrios. We need him more.

3. With two possible exceptions, trade all of the expiring contracts for effectively whatever you can get. It ain't going to be much given the performance of these guys but restocking the lower levels with guys that don't have to be on the 40 man roster right away has value. The point here is not the return. The point here is opening up opportunities now, not next year NOW, for the next wave of guys who might help us in 2022 through 2025. If you have to DFA guys like Happ to move him off the roster, do it. Colome is tougher because they still the hint of reclamation there as a middle of the bullpen guy and we need that.

4. The other exception is Pineda. Only trade him if you can get a solid to good return in the form of pitching that can be on the MLB roster next year or a shortstop. If you can't get that, try to re–sign him NOW. He wants to stay, is a solid number 3 or number 4 starter (#3 if he gives you 30 starts, #4 the more likely event he gives you 20 starts) and he wants to stay. 2 years $20 - $25 million.

5. Avoid the temptation to trade guys who can be contributing parts of a contending team in the 2022 – 2024 timeframe and for whom there are no obvious replacements like Duffy, Kepler, Polanco, Arraez, Maeda, etc. unless a team overpays. Do not let other teams take our decent quality players unless we decide to trade all of them and start over. I don't think were ready to do that nor do I think we need to do that.

6. PLAY the young guys so we can evaluate them for next year around what we need to find over the winter. In the field, that means Rooker, Gordon, Larnach, Miranda all get a lot of at bats. Same for Sano, Refsnyder and/or Contreras if the FO thinks they can be contributors next year. Celestino is not ready, so he goes back to AAA at the very least. Rotvedt is in the same boat and should stay in AAA. Whatever you do, do not play guys like Astudillo and Cave at the expense of these other guys. Astudillo and Cave might be numbers 25 – 30 on the roster next year but we already know what they can do. Let's not be 1 of those teams that tries to eke out another 3 – 5 wins this season by playing guys really have no long-term future as significant contributors.

7. PITCH the young guys for the same reason. Hopefully after the trade deadline dust settles, there will be room in the starting rotation for at least Jax and/or Barnes, and hopefully for Winder. Give all of these guys a minimum of 5 or 6 start down the stretch and keep Ober in the rotation until he reaches his innings limit, then sit him and give the last few starts to someone else. Hopefully the bullpen will have room for at least some of Hamilton, Vasquez, Moran, and Cano. Get those guys at least 10 – 15 appearances each, again so you can see what we have. Send Alcala back to AAA if you need to to create room.

Look, all of this sucks and seems like every move we made over the winter backfired. Having said that, we are where we are. We need to have a plan to move forward to make things better as soon as possible. I think this plan does that and, more importantly gives us the data we see how far away we are by the end of the season. That helps make a decision on guys like Berrios and whether to try to re-sign guys like Cruz and Pineda if he's traded. Stop mucking around and commit to a re-tooling this year or we're going to be stuck in never never land again next year.

15 minutes ago, roger said:

I am as frustrated as y'all.  We don't know what the discussions have been and with who.  Yes, there have been lots of reports, but were the reporters in the room or on the phone?

I am hopeful that the Twins have been holding firm on their demands for Berrios and perhaps Pineda as well.  Those are probably the two that can bring the best return.  Hopefully, they will get Pineda moved later today and if Berrios doesn't get moved, he can still be moved this winter or signed to an expensive extension.  As for moving the other minor pieces, they ain't gonna get much of a return.  Hopefully, they can get a couple deals done to save a few bucks, open a roster spot and get an A-ball lottery ticket.

12 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think this deadline is playing out the way it probably should for the Twins. Patience is key here. The Cruz trade was the right move because the offer was good enough to move early. It looks like the rest of the offers have not been good enough. My view:

1. Don't trade Buxton, sign him. From what I read, the $80m guarantee is over 7 years is acceptable to both, the issue is the size of the escalators. There is a deal there, make it. The only way a midmarket team can keep someone this talented is to get lucky and take risk. That's what we need to do here.

2.  Only trade Berrios now if you get a huge package. From the Dodgers, it must include either a Dustin May or Gavin Lux type player, +1 of their top starting pitching prospects like Gray or Peipot, plus an A+ or AA pitcher or shortstop with upside. Do not trade him unless you can get that. If all we're being offered is a lesser package, we can get that over the winter and it gives us a chance to re-sign him. Consider trading Donaldson to create the payroll space to give the money to Berrios. We need him more.

3. With two possible exceptions, trade all of the expiring contracts for effectively whatever you can get. It ain't going to be much given the performance of these guys but restocking the lower levels with guys that don't have to be on the 40 man roster right away has value. The point here is not the return. The point here is opening up opportunities now, not next year NOW, for the next wave of guys who might help us in 2022 through 2025. If you have to DFA guys like Happ to move him off the roster, do it. Colome is tougher because they still the hint of reclamation there as a middle of the bullpen guy and we need that.

4. The other exception is Pineda. Only trade him if you can get a solid to good return in the form of pitching that can be on the MLB roster next year or a shortstop. If you can't get that, try to re–sign him NOW. He wants to stay, is a solid number 3 or number 4 starter (#3 if he gives you 30 starts, #4 the more likely event he gives you 20 starts) and he wants to stay. 2 years $20 - $25 million.

5. Avoid the temptation to trade guys who can be contributing parts of a contending team in the 2022 – 2024 timeframe and for whom there are no obvious replacements like Duffy, Kepler, Polanco, Arraez, Maeda, etc. unless a team overpays. Do not let other teams take our decent quality players unless we decide to trade all of them and start over. I don't think were ready to do that nor do I think we need to do that.

6. PLAY the young guys so we can evaluate them for next year around what we need to find over the winter. In the field, that means Rooker, Gordon, Larnach, Miranda all get a lot of at bats. Same for Sano, Refsnyder and/or Contreras if the FO thinks they can be contributors next year. Celestino is not ready, so he goes back to AAA at the very least. Rotvedt is in the same boat and should stay in AAA. Whatever you do, do not play guys like Astudillo and Cave at the expense of these other guys. Astudillo and Cave might be numbers 25 – 30 on the roster next year but we already know what they can do. Let's not be 1 of those teams that tries to eke out another 3 – 5 wins this season by playing guys really have no long-term future as significant contributors.

7. PITCH the young guys for the same reason. Hopefully after the trade deadline dust settles, there will be room in the starting rotation for at least Jax and/or Barnes, and hopefully for Winder. Give all of these guys a minimum of 5 or 6 start down the stretch and keep Ober in the rotation until he reaches his innings limit, then sit him and give the last few starts to someone else. Hopefully the bullpen will have room for at least some of Hamilton, Vasquez, Moran, and Cano. Get those guys at least 10 – 15 appearances each, again so you can see what we have. Send Alcala back to AAA if you need to to create room.

Look, all of this sucks and seems like every move we made over the winter backfired. Having said that, we are where we are. We need to have a plan to move forward to make things better as soon as possible. I think this plan does that and, more importantly gives us the data we see how far away we are by the end of the season. That helps make a decision on guys like Berrios and whether to try to re-sign guys like Cruz and Pineda if he's traded. Stop mucking around and commit to a re-tooling this year or we're going to be stuck in never never land again next year.

 

I say this a little tongue in cheek..........maybe.......; I would agree with everything you just said if the team were also going to lower prices across the board to AAA levels while we watch what would  essentially be early spring training tryout games with minor league players.  I guess I always thought that was what winter ball and spring training was for, but I could go with you for minor league prices.   Again, somewhat tongue in cheek, if I wanted to see the Saints play I would go watch the Saints play. 

Don't get me wrong, I get what you are saying, and it may have to be, but we shouldn't sugar coat it and pretend it is the same; only the names have been changed to protect the worthless.  Throw the fans a bone for your incompetence and maybe we won't give up. 

This has been basically my feeling all along, but as trade deadline speculation continues, I only believe more that the Twins should not trade Berrios.

This is considering all that's been said and written about "a talented roster that was expected to contend," Pohlad saying there won't be a full rebuild, etc. While there's probably an element of positive spin in all that, it's not totally unrealistic. Many of us expected the Twins to contend too, and I have to think the front office is still considering different ways forward and isn't truly set on a rebuild yet. It's possible that 2019 and 2020 relied too much on peak performances that players won't repeat, but the baseline of the roster is not untalented. If anything, the talent is too heavy on the hitting side, light on the pitching side.

And speaking of pitching talent... this also makes me think of the Johan Santana trade. Some circumstances were different, but that was also a team that expected to contend, spent a season floundering, and had a front-end starter who seemed set on testing the market as a free agent. The front office felt pressed to make a move or else "get nothing for" Santana. Then the team contended again the next year and it's very likely that they would have benefited more from even one more year of Santana than several seasons of the players they received.

Finally, I know the front office has their own internal evaluation of the talent in the organization and the likelihood of Berrios departing, based on private dealings with him and his agent, and getting talent back by trading him may be the sensible move. But something about it seems...uncreative. Sure, a front office can distinguish themselves by evaluating other orgs' players well and getting good talent back in a trade, but trading a player approaching free agency because you don't think you can retain him is, in itself, formulaic. Basing any given move on trying to get absolute maximum value from a player as an asset in a market of baseball talent is formulaic.

Especially for a team that really needs pitching and hasn't developed a lot of it - rolling with Berrios (and Maeda) to keep a stable floor for the rotation, rebuilding/retooling as needed around them, and even finding a way to contend seriously to sign Berrios in free agency ...  that would be creative problem-solving. I'd like to see this front office try it.
 

27 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think this deadline is playing out the way it probably should for the Twins. Patience is key here. The Cruz trade was the right move because the offer was good enough to move early. It looks like the rest of the offers have not been good enough. My view:

1. Don't trade Buxton, sign him. From what I read, the $80m guarantee is over 7 years is acceptable to both, the issue is the size of the escalators. There is a deal there, make it. The only way a midmarket team can keep someone this talented is to get lucky and take risk. That's what we need to do here.

2.  Only trade Berrios now if you get a huge package. From the Dodgers, it must include either a Dustin May or Gavin Lux type player, +1 of their top starting pitching prospects like Gray or Peipot, plus an A+ or AA pitcher or shortstop with upside. Do not trade him unless you can get that. If all we're being offered is a lesser package, we can get that over the winter and it gives us a chance to re-sign him. Consider trading Donaldson to create the payroll space to give the money to Berrios. We need him more.

3. With two possible exceptions, trade all of the expiring contracts for effectively whatever you can get. It ain't going to be much given the performance of these guys but restocking the lower levels with guys that don't have to be on the 40 man roster right away has value. The point here is not the return. The point here is opening up opportunities now, not next year NOW, for the next wave of guys who might help us in 2022 through 2025. If you have to DFA guys like Happ to move him off the roster, do it. Colome is tougher because they still the hint of reclamation there as a middle of the bullpen guy and we need that.

4. The other exception is Pineda. Only trade him if you can get a solid to good return in the form of pitching that can be on the MLB roster next year or a shortstop. If you can't get that, try to re–sign him NOW. He wants to stay, is a solid number 3 or number 4 starter (#3 if he gives you 30 starts, #4 the more likely event he gives you 20 starts) and he wants to stay. 2 years $20 - $25 million.

5. Avoid the temptation to trade guys who can be contributing parts of a contending team in the 2022 – 2024 timeframe and for whom there are no obvious replacements like Duffy, Kepler, Polanco, Arraez, Maeda, etc. unless a team overpays. Do not let other teams take our decent quality players unless we decide to trade all of them and start over. I don't think were ready to do that nor do I think we need to do that.

6. PLAY the young guys so we can evaluate them for next year around what we need to find over the winter. In the field, that means Rooker, Gordon, Larnach, Miranda all get a lot of at bats. Same for Sano, Refsnyder and/or Contreras if the FO thinks they can be contributors next year. Celestino is not ready, so he goes back to AAA at the very least. Rotvedt is in the same boat and should stay in AAA. Whatever you do, do not play guys like Astudillo and Cave at the expense of these other guys. Astudillo and Cave might be numbers 25 – 30 on the roster next year but we already know what they can do. Let's not be 1 of those teams that tries to eke out another 3 – 5 wins this season by playing guys really have no long-term future as significant contributors.

7. PITCH the young guys for the same reason. Hopefully after the trade deadline dust settles, there will be room in the starting rotation for at least Jax and/or Barnes, and hopefully for Winder. Give all of these guys a minimum of 5 or 6 start down the stretch and keep Ober in the rotation until he reaches his innings limit, then sit him and give the last few starts to someone else. Hopefully the bullpen will have room for at least some of Hamilton, Vasquez, Moran, and Cano. Get those guys at least 10 – 15 appearances each, again so you can see what we have. Send Alcala back to AAA if you need to to create room.

Look, all of this sucks and seems like every move we made over the winter backfired. Having said that, we are where we are. We need to have a plan to move forward to make things better as soon as possible. I think this plan does that and, more importantly gives us the data we see how far away we are by the end of the season. That helps make a decision on guys like Berrios and whether to try to re-sign guys like Cruz and Pineda if he's traded. Stop mucking around and commit to a re-tooling this year or we're going to be stuck in never never land again next year.

 

Have you thought of calling Mr. Pohlad and applying for the GM job?  If not, you should.

3 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Demoralizing loss yesterday. I feel for our batters, and to hear a trade of Berrios isn't going to be helpful. What are we doing? Seems impossible to believe a trade this week of Berrios helps us next year. Pohlad just said we're competing next year, no blow up. We already have no pitching. Yesterday was just stupid. FO literally made the worst signings they could. We will get zero for all of them, Happ/Robles/Colome/Shoemaker. 

4 minutes ago, roger said:

Have you thought of calling Mr. Pohlad and applying for the GM job?  If not, you should.

Indeed.  The bullpen is an absolute joke.  I don't think the Twins benefit by trading Berrios.  He's a solid low 2 high 3.

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think this deadline is playing out the way it probably should for the Twins. Patience is key here. The Cruz trade was the right move because the offer was good enough to move early. It looks like the rest of the offers have not been good enough. My view:

1. Don't trade Buxton, sign him. From what I read, the $80m guarantee is over 7 years is acceptable to both, the issue is the size of the escalators. There is a deal there, make it. The only way a midmarket team can keep someone this talented is to get lucky and take risk. That's what we need to do here.

2.  Only trade Berrios now if you get a huge package. From the Dodgers, it must include either a Dustin May or Gavin Lux type player, +1 of their top starting pitching prospects like Gray or Peipot, plus an A+ or AA pitcher or shortstop with upside. Do not trade him unless you can get that. If all we're being offered is a lesser package, we can get that over the winter and it gives us a chance to re-sign him. Consider trading Donaldson to create the payroll space to give the money to Berrios. We need him more.

3. With two possible exceptions, trade all of the expiring contracts for effectively whatever you can get. It ain't going to be much given the performance of these guys but restocking the lower levels with guys that don't have to be on the 40 man roster right away has value. The point here is not the return. The point here is opening up opportunities now, not next year NOW, for the next wave of guys who might help us in 2022 through 2025. If you have to DFA guys like Happ to move him off the roster, do it. Colome is tougher because they still the hint of reclamation there as a middle of the bullpen guy and we need that.

4. The other exception is Pineda. Only trade him if you can get a solid to good return in the form of pitching that can be on the MLB roster next year or a shortstop. If you can't get that, try to re–sign him NOW. He wants to stay, is a solid number 3 or number 4 starter (#3 if he gives you 30 starts, #4 the more likely event he gives you 20 starts) and he wants to stay. 2 years $20 - $25 million.

5. Avoid the temptation to trade guys who can be contributing parts of a contending team in the 2022 – 2024 timeframe and for whom there are no obvious replacements like Duffy, Kepler, Polanco, Arraez, Maeda, etc. unless a team overpays. Do not let other teams take our decent quality players unless we decide to trade all of them and start over. I don't think were ready to do that nor do I think we need to do that.

6. PLAY the young guys so we can evaluate them for next year around what we need to find over the winter. In the field, that means Rooker, Gordon, Larnach, Miranda all get a lot of at bats. Same for Sano, Refsnyder and/or Contreras if the FO thinks they can be contributors next year. Celestino is not ready, so he goes back to AAA at the very least. Rotvedt is in the same boat and should stay in AAA. Whatever you do, do not play guys like Astudillo and Cave at the expense of these other guys. Astudillo and Cave might be numbers 25 – 30 on the roster next year but we already know what they can do. Let's not be 1 of those teams that tries to eke out another 3 – 5 wins this season by playing guys really have no long-term future as significant contributors.

7. PITCH the young guys for the same reason. Hopefully after the trade deadline dust settles, there will be room in the starting rotation for at least Jax and/or Barnes, and hopefully for Winder. Give all of these guys a minimum of 5 or 6 start down the stretch and keep Ober in the rotation until he reaches his innings limit, then sit him and give the last few starts to someone else. Hopefully the bullpen will have room for at least some of Hamilton, Vasquez, Moran, and Cano. Get those guys at least 10 – 15 appearances each, again so you can see what we have. Send Alcala back to AAA if you need to to create room.

Look, all of this sucks and seems like every move we made over the winter backfired. Having said that, we are where we are. We need to have a plan to move forward to make things better as soon as possible. I think this plan does that and, more importantly gives us the data we see how far away we are by the end of the season. That helps make a decision on guys like Berrios and whether to try to re-sign guys like Cruz and Pineda if he's traded. Stop mucking around and commit to a re-tooling this year or we're going to be stuck in never never land again next year.

 

Cano will be 28 before the season is over, and Vasquez is  27. Hardly "young guys."