Article: TD Top Prospects: #6 Jose Berrios

[Parker Hageman]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php/2659-TD-Top-Prospects-6-Jose-Berrios

[AlwaysinModeration]

Love this kid. Would he top any organizational prospect lists?

[Brock Beauchamp]

he also encountered some resistance as he discovered he could not always throw his speedball by you to make you look like a fool.

 

Ahahahahahahahahah.

[big dog]

Ahahahahahahahahah.[/font][/color]

 

I saw him the other day. I was walkin' in, he was walkin' out.

 

Nice.

[cmathewson]

Wondering if his stature and delivery make him a reliever long term. Guys who rely on hiding the ball and 3/4 deliveries tend to have better success as relievers. Once the opposition starts picking up the ball out of the hand, it gets tougher for guys like Berrios. If he can come in for a couple of innings at a time, they never get used to his release point. The exceptions are guys who have a good sinker, like Masterson, which Berrios does not, judging by his GB rates.

[Jim Crikket]

I may be wrong (again), but I don't think 6' 0" is much of a "generous" measurement. I'm just a bit over that, myself, and when I would talk to him last summer, I don't ever recall feeling like I was looking down. Our eyes were pretty much the same level. Not an exact way of measuring height, I grant you.

 

Ironically, the one thing about Berrios that bothered me a little is also one of the reasons I think he could eventually really get better.

 

There were times, when errors were made behind him or he gave up a couple extra-base hits in an inning, that he lost his composure a bit on the mound. In other words, he acted like a lot of 19-year-olds would. Often, that's when he'd just try to "throw that speedball by you" and the results weren't typically good for Berrios or the Kernels.

 

As the summer went along, that happened less frequently. I think, as he matures, he'll keep his composure and make smarter pitches in those situations. That can do nothing but help his numbers.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of season Berrios can put together this summer.

[Parker Hageman]

I may be wrong (again), but I don't think 6' 0" is much of a "generous" measurement.

 

Right, he very well could be six-even but I'm always skeptical of media guide height measurements.

 

How do I know you are not lying about your height??

[Jim Crikket]

Right, he very well could be six-even but I'm always skeptical of media guide height measurements.

 

How do I know you are not lying about your height??

 

Both good points.

 

It wouldn't be the first time my height was exaggerated. The game program for the JuCo basketball team I was a member of once listed me at 6' 11".

[bird]

Love this kid. Would he top any organizational prospect lists?

 

He might possibly be regarded as the White Sox' best prospect and would rank as the best pitching prospect were he in either Detroit's or Cleveland's system I think.

[Blackjack]

How tall was Johan Santana?

[ashbury]

Ahahahahahahahahah.

 

I know this was a Boss reference, but your reaction is more Barney:

 

[video=youtube;AaUWLQ052HY]

[Dantes929]

"I know this was a Boss reference, but your reaction is more Barney" Great theme song for Seth and the other Twins optimists (includes me). I really hope you have young kids.

[Dantes929]

"It wouldn't be the first time my height was exaggerated. The game program for the JuCo basketball team I was a member of once listed me at 6' 11". " Did you have an afro? (Sorry, just figured since we are already referencing 80's culture I would throw a Fletch in there.)

[Jim Crikket]

"It wouldn't be the first time my height was exaggerated. The game program for the JuCo basketball team I was a member of once listed me at 6' 11". " Did you have an afro? (Sorry, just figured since we are already referencing 80's culture I would throw a Fletch in there.)

 

No. Actually my afro showed up about 3 months later. (I wish I was kidding. Mine didn't look as good as Fletch's.)

[nicksaviking]

"I know this was a Boss reference, but your reaction is more Barney" Great theme song for Seth and the other Twins optimists (includes me). I really hope you have young kids.

 

I hope the Glory Days referrence isn't any indicator of Barrios success, because it seems to me the implication of the song is that the guy never made it and his best days were behind him.

 

Long Live the Boss!

[cmb0252]

How tall was Johan Santana?

 

Santana was 6' but he was left handed and had a 70+ grade change up. Neither of those things Berrios has.

[Seth Stohs]

I talked to Berrios for about a minute at Twins Fest. I'm not 6-0, and he's not much taller than me... The general scouting belief is that because of his height and his skinniness, he may end up in the bullpen due to durability, but you never know. He's very young, but he's certainly intriguing.

[Madre Dos]

I have never had any ball player live with me that has any better work ethic than Jose. The first to bed every night following the Elizabethton Twins ballgames and up eating Fruit Loops before I left for work every morning. He is bright, happy and has a very easy going personality. Loves his cookies and cream ice cream - but shrimp make him go "POOF"! Can't wait to see him next month in Fort Myers.

[PopRiveter]

I have never had any ball player live with me that has any better work ethic than Jose. The first to bed every night following the Elizabethton Twins ballgames and up eating Fruit Loops before I left for work every morning. He is bright, happy and has a very easy going personality. Loves his cookies and cream ice cream - but shrimp make him go "POOF"! Can't wait to see him next month in Fort Myers.

I love when Madre Dos drops comments like this! It's a great reminder that these players are real people. It makes following prospects that much better. Don't feed Jose Berrios shrimp. That advice may never come in handy for me, but I'm taking note anyway

[jokin]

He might possibly be regarded as the White Sox' best prospect

 

and would rank as the best pitching prospect were he in either Detroit's or Cleveland's system I think.

 

 

Jose Abreu, Eric Johnson and Micah Johnson cast dissenting votes from the WhiteSox.

[Paul Pleiss]

I am a noted Berrios hater. Or maybe that's too strong a word, but I'm not very excited about Berrios. Maybe its prospect fatigue. Maybe I see too many other arms in the system that I think are better, that have more MLB potential. J.O. Berrios just doesn't do it for me. I hope I'm wrong, I hope he can become a successful part of future Twins teams, I just don't buy it.

[Kwak]

I am a noted Berrios hater. Or maybe that's too strong a word, but I'm not very excited about Berrios. Maybe its prospect fatigue. Maybe I see too many other arms in the system that I think are better, that have more MLB potential. J.O. Berrios just doesn't do it for me. I hope I'm wrong, I hope he can become a successful part of future Twins teams, I just don't buy it.

 

I sort of agree with you. The thread is premised around Berrios being the #6 prospect, but there was considerable concern about whether he would succeed as a starter. Yet coming in at #7 is Pinto, where in his thread it is implied that he will be the regular catcher for years. Pinto has played for the Twins (and has displayed considerable success) while Berrios "slowed-down" at Cedar Rapids--in the old days Class "B" ball. Something is fishy.

[bird]

Jose Abreu, Eric Johnson and Micah Johnson cast dissenting votes from the WhiteSox.

 

I believe most rankers would say that Eric Johnson might be a tad better or worse than Berrios. Abreu doesn't qualify, and Micah Johnson makes mybe one or two top 100 lists. Berrios is ranked anywhere dfrom #49 to 125 on the lists I've seen. Most recently, I believe Baseball Prospectus ranked seven Twins prospects before the first (and only) White Sox prospect, and I don't recall that it was either of these two Johnsons.

 

At any rate, jokin, Baseball Prospectus is highly credible, so I'll take the dissenting votes from these White Sox prospects with a huge grain of salt.

[jokin]

I believe most rankers would say that Eric Johnson might be a tad better or worse than Berrios. Abreu doesn't qualify, and Micah Johnson makes mybe one or two top 100 lists. Berrios is ranked anywhere dfrom #49 to 125 on the lists I've seen. Most recently, I believe Baseball Prospectus ranked seven Twins prospects before the first (and only) White Sox prospect, and I don't recall that it was either of these two Johnsons.

 

At any rate, jokin, Baseball Prospectus is highly credible, so I'll take the dissenting votes from these White Sox prospects with a huge grain of salt.

 

Eric Johnson has the build of a Starter, and he jumped 3 levels, with success and every indication that he's knocking down the door to become the Sox #3 starter, and hasn't hit his ceiling yet. When ranking guys, I prefer a guy with the physical stature for the job and all the indications that he's beating the door down to get in the league. Maybe Berrios will make a big move this year or next, but like the 2 previous posters, until he proves different, he currently has all the makings of a good reliever.

 

And why doesn't Abreu count? Many scouting services have him ranked as the top Sox propsect, and he certainly would qualify for ROY, so again I ask, why not?

 

Regarding Micah Johnson, here's another guy that not only played through 3 levels in 2013, he was also the MVP of the Southern League playoffs- giving the Sox a AA League Pennant from their supposedly "weak farm system" (how many playoffs did the Twins win again?)...all that for Johnson, despite barely playing for Birmingham at AA beforehand, batting .450 in the series. Oh, he also stole 85 bases on the season. Sign me up for guys who fly through a system and lead their team to a championship.

[bird]

He might possibly be regarded as the White Sox' best prospect and would rank as the best pitching prospect were he in either Detroit's or Cleveland's system I think.

 

jokin, I have no argument against your love for Micah Johnson or Eric Johnson. If I had an opinion it would be valueless.

 

The above statement about Berrios is supported by the rankings from MLB, Bullpen Banter, Sickles, Baseball Prospectus, and Top Prospect Alert.

 

None of them ranked Abreu. Most of them did not rank Micah Johnson. The question was simply, where might Berrios rank in other systems, and I shared what I knew the experts were saying about teams in the division. You perhaps disagree with these experts, which is fine by me.

[Dantes929]

Yeah, I see where you both are coming from and with good arguments on both sides. Of course experts are right 50% of the time which is much better than the amateur posters who are only right half the time.

[jokin]

jokin, I have no argument against your love for Micah Johnson or Eric Johnson. If I had an opinion it would be valueless.

 

The above statement about Berrios is supported by the rankings from MLB, Bullpen Banter, Sickles, Baseball Prospectus, and Top Prospect Alert.

 

None of them ranked Abreu. Most of them did not rank Micah Johnson. The question was simply, where might Berrios rank in other systems, and I shared what I knew the experts were saying about teams in the division. You perhaps disagree with these experts, which is fine by me.

 

So we can agree that, the many services that do rank Abreu as a higher prospect are likely correct in their assessment.

 

From your own words, "most rankers would say that Eric Johnson is a tad better or a tad worse than Berrios." This seems to validate why Johnson might voice a dissenting vote, especially since he has already had great success in AAA and already passed his September MLB cameo with flying colors.

 

On Micah Johnson, that was my own wild card, that I threw in for fun. He looks to potentially be the Sox's version of Brian Dozier, both 2B, mid-round college guys that look solid, but whose ceiling is undeterminable, until it isn't.

 

Dozier was 23 playing A level, where he hit .278/.347/.338/.685 and got promoted anyway, and kept improving his numbers. at each successive level.

 

Johnson by contrast, just started his 2013 year out at A level at a year younger, age 22, where he hit .342/.422/.530/.952, got promoted 2 levels in-season, and dominated the AA Southern League playoffs winning the MVP. And he beat out Billy Hamilton as the Stolen Base leader, with 85 SBs.

 

So not a power guy, but potentially a very dynamic player who forces his way onto and up the prospect ranking ladder. Hopefully, Berrios makes the same kind of jump in the next couple of years, but it looks like it's going to take mastery of another pitch for him to realize his current lofty ranking.

[bird]

I take your word for it, jokin. No opinion and no skin in the game here. Produce a top 100. I'll throw it on the spreadsheet with Sickles, Law and the other experts. Then my answer would have been: "Berrios would probably be ranked by most as the best pitcher in the Cleveland and Detroit system and one of the two or three top prospects in Chicago's system."

 

Hope this is satisfactory with you, Eric Johnson, and any other dissenters of the experts' rankings.

[cmathewson]

For me, the jury is out. But there weren't a lot of 19 year olds in the MWL last year. The fact that he was a solid and occasionally spectacular starter against guys two years older than him means he has a high ceiling. Whether that ceiling is as a starter or reliever is the big question for me. The doubt about starting is why I don't rank him this high. I have him behind Thorpe and May. Still, he's a top 10 prospect in the system in my book. Even if he becomes a reliever, he has closer upside.

[jokin]

For me, the jury is out. But there weren't a lot of 19 year olds in the MWL last year. The fact that he was a solid and occasionally spectacular starter against guys two years older than him means he has a high ceiling. Whether that ceiling is as a starter or reliever is the big question for me. The doubt about starting is why I don't rank him this high. I have him behind Thorpe and May. Still, he's a top 10 prospect in the system in my book. Even if he becomes a reliever, he has closer upside.

 

This is right about where I'm at with JB, but I still have my doubts about how much propsect stature to give to a potential closer. The Sulbaran comparison to Berrios in 2013 didn't exactly strengthen his case, and 2013, while maybe not a step backward for Berrios, still has to give pause to those still granting him his still-lofty status as a future MLB starter:

 

 

Both 19 (and within 2 months of each other in age)

Both 2nd year of professional baseball

Similar in stature

2013 stats in A ball-

 

 

Sulbaran- 113 IP/2.96 ERA/2.71 FIP/1.26 WHIP/8.1 K*9/3.16 K*BB

Berrios- 103 IP/3.99 ERA/3.44 FIP/1.40 WHIP/8.7 K*9/2.50 K*BB

 

 

It's very early, to be certain (A-ball numbers have to taken with a grain of salt from a 19 year old, I fully acknowledge that), but if a "smallish" 1st Rd. pick expects he's on his way to an MLB starting rotation, he is going to have to start putting up some superior standout numbers in the next 2 years if he's going to stay on the starting track, certainly superior to an unheralded guy who was acquired for Drew Butera. Even maintaining this 4.00ERA/3.44 FIP with K/inning numbers over the next 2 levels has "reliever" written all over it.