Emilio Bonifacio DFA'd

[The Wise One]

Sounds like exactly the type of endorsement that a 26th man veteran should receive.

 

Yes, he's signed as an insurance policy with potential underlying value on a team that will have prospects playing at multiple positions and many of whom may need to be spelled or optioned back to AAA. Kind of exactly the same situation that the Twins are in. And a cheaper insurance policy than Jamey Carroll was in 2013. And if they get an offer for Darwin Barney, they have someone they can plug in immediately. It sounded like there were 8 or 9 clubs interested with multiple offers, and this one was chosen as it may give Bonifacio the best chance to stick in the majors, and possibly get traded to a contender if/when the need should arise.

 

The Cubs didn't get a prospect for Borbon, although they do employ that strategy as a matter of routine. The Orioles took Borbon away from the Cubs in the Rule 5 draft. They also frequently look to seek value from fringe players- look what they got for Danny Valencia.

 

Carrol was not signed to be the 26th man. Carroll declined rapidly in 2013 as a 39 year old player. You can argue 2013 Carrol versus 2014Bonifacio all you want. One has nothing to do with the other. Different years different situations.

 

9 some pages into this thread you finally acnowledge that Bonafacio now is not a major league quality player.

 

You missed th point. When Borbon was picked up by the Cubs it was said that they could flip him for a prospect. If the Cubs were anticipting Bonafacio to be an asset, they ouht to remeber what they gt for Borbon.

 

Baltimore got a 28 year old outfielder with 400 plate appearances in the big league. Lst year he had a lessthan league average OPS for outfielders. e did get one vote in the rookie of the year balloting, which probably means the KC writer with a vote gave it to him.

[Riverbrian]

 

9 some pages into this thread you finally acnowledge that Bonafacio now is not a major league quality player.

 

 

2,299 at bats do not happen to players who are not major league quality.

[ashbury]

Dang it!!! I'm ok... I just gotta walk it off.

 

Rub some dirt on it, and for God's sake don't let the other team see you wince.

[cmathewson]

2,299 at bats do not happen to players who are not major league quality.

 

Every year, guys who are major league quality regress below the line of being major league quality. I'm not saying Bonifacio is there yet, but the risk is pretty high that he is close because he wasn't far above the line for most of his career, with the exception of one year. It's just not worth investing in marginal upgrades if you are trying to develop players. You get into a cycle of mediocrity in which you never give the kids the opportunities they need to develop. If it's a clear upgrade, fine, but not guys who spend most of their careers as replacement players.

 

One note on this thread: My last point is often used when the Twins do sign an aging veteran stop gap, like Bartlett, as an argument that they should not have signed said player. In this case, the self same posters are dismissing it out of hand as somehow not relevant. It makes me think that their opinion starts with being negative of whatever decision or non-decision the Twins brass make and trying to fill in the argument for their opinion with cherry picked data.

 

I looked at the data and immediately thought he wasn't worth it. In Bartlett's case, he has actually been significantly above replacement level for long stretches of his career. So, if he can get back there, he is a clear upgrade. If not, they lose nothing. In Bonifacio's case, one year does not a career make. For him to get back to his career average is not a clear upgrade for any of the other candidates already in the system. And, it turns out, if he fails, they lose some dollars that might come in handy down the road.

[jay]

It makes me think that their opinion starts with being negative of whatever decision or non-decision the Twins brass make and trying to fill in the argument for their opinion with cherry picked data.

 

For emphasis.

[snepp]

And, it turns out, if he fails, they lose some dollars that might come in handy down the road.

 

I'd buy that, if they didn't already have $30 some million other dollars sitting around doing nothing.

[Riverbrian]

Every year, guys who are major league quality regress below the line of being major league quality. I'm not saying Bonifacio is there yet, but the risk is pretty high that he is close because he wasn't far above the line for most of his career, with the exception of one year. It's just not worth investing in marginal upgrades if you are trying to develop players. You get into a cycle of mediocrity in which you never give the kids the opportunities they need to develop. If it's a clear upgrade, fine, but not guys who spend most of their careers as replacement players.

 

One note on this thread: My last point is often used when the Twins do sign an aging veteran stop gap, like Bartlett, as an argument that they should not have signed said player. In this case, the self same posters are dismissing it out of hand as somehow not relevant. It makes me think that their opinion starts with being negative of whatever decision or non-decision the Twins brass make and trying to fill in the argument for their opinion with cherry picked data.

 

I looked at the data and immediately thought he wasn't worth it. In Bartlett's case, he has actually been significantly above replacement level for long stretches of his career. So, if he can get back there, he is a clear upgrade. If not, they lose nothing. In Bonifacio's case, one year does not a career make. For him to get back to his career average is not a clear upgrade for any of the other candidates already in the system. And, it turns out, if he fails, they lose some dollars that might come in handy down the road.

 

For the record... I'm for running anything up the flagpole. After last year... I was crying for position competition. We had sub par years in compared to expectation from everyone not named Mauer, Dozier or even Florimon. Yes Florimon because he wasn't expected to hit.

 

Yet under performers kept playing everyday because no one could take their place. Bono could have played a role like that.

 

We were a one dimensional team (power) that did not get that dimension. It was station to station baseball while Brian Dozier led the the team in home runs. No power... No speed and you can't win the close game and winning the close game is how improvement toward .500 happens.

 

I'm ok with Bartlett but I was more OK with Bonofacio because his skill set was a bigger need for the current Twins. Backup 3B CF Leadoff skills and Speed. Moveable when Sano comes up... Moveable when Hicks comes up... Easily cut when they all come up.

 

However... I trust Twins management... My vision very rarely matches up with anyone else's... Let alone the Twins Front office and I do not think the Twins are goofballs for not executing what is in my head. Nor do I think anyone else on TD is a goofball for not seeing what I think.

 

I thought he was a perfect insurance policy for Plouffe not hitting homers and playing like a Pylon at 3B and insurance for Presley struggling in CF... Plus a great Corner OF defensive replacement for Hammer, Kubel or Arcia with a late lead or a Pinch running option when trailing late in games. I can't think of anyone who can plug all those holes and we have all those holes.

 

The Cubs are going to love him. They just signed a backup for Lake, Ruggiano, Valbuena, Barney and even Castro.

[cmathewson]

I'd buy that, if they didn't already have $30 some million other dollars sitting around doing nothing.

 

Yeah. I hear ya. But I don't think people run businesses like that. No matter how much cash you have, you still want to be prudent with your investments. My company's not hurting, but finance watches every dollar and tries to find ways to cut costs all the time. The finance guys have to earn their paychecks too.

[Mike Sixel]

Some people accuse others of being negative all the time, for disagreeing with a particular move......maybe people see this guy as having multiple positional value, on a team with question marks everywhere but 1B, and see Barlett as having 1 position. Maybe it is possible to disagree with the Twins, and not somehow be bad/wrong/evil.

 

Perhaps we could just dispense with the attacks on posters all together, and talk about the decisions being made.

[beckmt]

Bartlett was signed as an insurance policy in case Floriman does not improve and Jason looks like there is still some gas in the tank(unlikely). This is the type of no cost signings many teams do, we can still hope Santana can get here next year or that Polanco or Dozier can play SS when Rosario comes up. Do not need to spend dollars for a one year possible improvement.

[oldguy10]

beckmt - Hope that Santana can get up next year, hmm, how about Goodrum?

[johnnydakota]

Heres the deal , if we are always going to wait for the next great prospect to come up , and never fill the holes, then you have what Tori and the rest said ....at 1 point you have to say ok today we will fill those holes from out side the Org. and go for it, this year No ,but shortly ....

[jokin]

Carrol was not signed to be the 26th man. Carroll declined rapidly in 2013 as a 39 year old player. You can argue 2013 Carrol versus 2014Bonifacio all you want. One has nothing to do with the other. Different years different situations.

 

9 some pages into this thread you finally acnowledge that Bonafacio now is not a major league quality player.

 

You missed th point. When Borbon was picked up by the Cubs it was said that they could flip him for a prospect. If the Cubs were anticipting Bonafacio to be an asset, they ouht to remeber what they gt for Borbon.

 

Baltimore got a 28 year old outfielder with 400 plate appearances in the big league. Lst year he had a lessthan league average OPS for outfielders. e did get one vote in the rookie of the year balloting, which probably means the KC writer with a vote gave it to him.

 

All guys signed as utility players, are in effect, always potentially the next 26th man on a roster when someone needed more becomes available, hey!, that happened to both Bonifacio and Carroll just last year! Only, Bonifacio is only 28 with the speed facet to his game still fully intact. So you're right, he's not the same type of insurance policy as Carroll, in many ways, he's a better insurance policy and more affordavble, besides!

 

I've actually acknowledged that Bonifacio is what he is over these 9 pages- very fast, the 7th best baserunner in MLB since 2010, can play 6 positions with varying degrees of competence, and has hit for a high OBP since 2010 (except for one half season in Toronto)- in short, a marginal big league player that has successfully been a fit for many teams looking for speed and positional flexibility- and was sought by 8 or 9 clubs in this latest go-round.

 

I got the point on Borbon, not all deals work out in generating value, and I think the Cubs remember that concept in relation to Borbon quite well.

 

Baltimore likely got a starting OFer for a guy who developed with Baltimore from a very suspect talent into a bona fide DH specialist/back-up 3rd baseman.

[ScottyB]

How do we feel now - Bonofacio vs Bartlett on the roster?

 

Bonofacio early season stats - 9 GP; .452 BA; 1.024 OPS; 7 SB

 

GP - 5 2B; 6 CF; 1 3B, 1 SS

 

They love him in Chicago - I sure wish we'd gotten him in place of Bartlett.

[jokin]

How do we feel now - Bonofacio vs Bartlett on the roster?

 

Bonofacio early season stats - 9 GP; .452 BA; 1.024 OPS; 7 SB

 

GP - 5 2B; 6 CF; 1 3B, 1 SS

 

They love him in Chicago - I sure wish we'd gotten him in place of Bartlett.

 

One thing we do know- and forget the "I told you so" warm and fuzzy feeling that those of us who pleaded for this acquisition to happen (see post #163 above)- this huge and obvious mistake, along with Solarte's early season success in NY demonstrates that the "25th man doesn't matter" meme has died a well-deserved death- and comments like this one have been proven to be utterly wrong:

 

9 some pages into this thread you finally acnowledge that Bonafacio now is not a major league quality player.