Four down, one to go: Who will be the Twins 5th starter?

[SweetOne69]

I would bet they put Deduno on the 60-day DL. I think he would have to make the 25-manroster first, which means they would have to option someone first.

 

Nope. Toward's the end of ST they can just put him on the DL. Happens every year.

[Mike Sixel]

for those that think Worley and Diamond are the same player.....go to Fangraphs, do compare, and take into account Worley was hurt last year and get back to me. They were close in 2012, but there is NO comparison in 2011. And they both stunk it up last year. Worley has some stuff, Diamond is a long reliever, imo.

[Heimer]

I know it's very unlikely, but how about a 6th man rotation for the 2014 season? Start two of the three ( Deduno, Diamond, or Worley). And put the other one in the bullpen as the long relief or AAA?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I know it's very unlikely, but how about a 6th man rotation for the 2014 season? Start two of the three ( Deduno, Diamond, or Worley). And put the other one in the bullpen as the long relief or AAA?

 

Six man rotations are uncommon; six man rotations out of ST are completely overkill. Teams get a lot of days off in April and guys are fresh out of ST. I think conventional wisdom is that you don't want to give your starters as many as six days off between starts.

[cmathewson]

for those that think Worley and Diamond are the same player.....go to Fangraphs, do compare, and take into account Worley was hurt last year and get back to me. They were close in 2012, but there is NO comparison in 2011. And they both stunk it up last year. Worley has some stuff, Diamond is a long reliever, imo.

 

They had the same injury. Both had bone chips removed from their elbows. Worley's were removed in September of 2012. Diamond's were removed in December of 2012. They both struggled mightily out of the gate, though Worley more so than Diamond. They both got sent down. Diamond pitched well enough in AAA to make it back. Worley never did.

 

Worley's game is about getting the inside strike called on a sinker that starts at the LHB and nicks the inside corner. That's how he got half his strikeouts in the NL. That stuff doesn't work in the AL when you just touch 90. Often last year, the pitches that he had been getting backwards Ks on were either called balls or ended up in the seats. If he wasn't getting his backwards Ks, he was getting pounded. I'm not impressed.

[Parker Hageman]

for those that think Worley and Diamond are the same player.....go to Fangraphs, do compare, and take into account Worley was hurt last year and get back to me.

 

Diamond has been able to get more swing-and-misses over his career: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=5&season=2013&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=6435,5089

 

Admittedly Worley's approach -- which you can read about here: http://twinsdaily.com/entry.php/2247-Vance-refrigeration-How-Worley-will-succeed-with-the-Minnesota-Twins -- involves finesse and, because of the loose bodies in his elbow, he was unable to demonstrate the same command as he did in 2011. It's possible he reemerges.

[TwinsTerritory]

It seems to me that Deduno's health is the wild card. If he's healthy, I think he has a big lead in the competition for the 5th spot. That would probably mean that either Diamond or Worley is in the bullpen and the other is on waivers.

If Deduno goes to the DL, I'd guess both Worley and Diamond make the roster as 5th starter and long reliever.

I can't see Swarzak or Duensing being moved into the rotation and I don't think there is any way that Meyer makes the team out of ST. That leaves Gibson to go to AAA and wait for a spot. I appreciate what Albers did last year, but he is a AAA lifer that gets a few starts when a team has injuries.

[Mike Sixel]

All I know is that one was very good in 2011, one was ok in 2011, regardless of how they got those results. I suppose one could argue (as I believe cmat did very well) that it is not repeatable. Maybe it is that I've seen Diamond, and am not a believer, and I never saw the healthy Worely, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. Either way, we'll see over the next couple of years I guess.

[Kwak]

Deduno will be on the 60-day DL and Worley will be named the 5th starter. Ryan isn't going to give-up on a guy who was trumpeted as "part of the pitching solution" just yet. Diamond might be added to the bullpen--because I think the Twins will offer LHP (?!) in trade! Duensing, Albers, Theilbar, (not Kris Johnson!), and Diamond will all be offered in some kind of a package and if it's Duensing that leaves, then Diamond will replace him in the bullpen.

[JP3700]

Diamond has been able to get more swing-and-misses over his career: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=5&season=2013&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=6435,5089

 

Admittedly Worley's approach -- which you can read about here: http://twinsdaily.com/entry.php/2247-Vance-refrigeration-How-Worley-will-succeed-with-the-Minnesota-Twins -- involves finesse and, because of the loose bodies in his elbow, he was unable to demonstrate the same command as he did in 2011. It's possible he reemerges.

 

Ah, you beat me to it. I was planning on writing a blog tonight on comparing Diamond to Worley.

 

To summarize: Diamond gets more swings out of the zone, more ground balls, fewer line drives, more swings and misses and walks fewer batters.

 

I have also seen a lot of mention of Worley's injury. Diamond had the same surgery to remove bone chips as Worley did and he had his over three months later. Yet, Worley gets the benefit of the doubt and Diamond doesn't.

[Thrylos]

if it's Duensing that leaves, then Diamond will replace him in the bullpen.

 

You cannot replace someone who is throwing hard with a soft tosser in the pen. Diamond can replace Thielbar, maybe, that's about it. And I just don't think that Diamond can be a pen pitcher because lefties hit him harder than righties. As a matter of fact, lefties have a career .859 OPS against him. This is like making any left hand hitter he faces hit like Prince Fielder.

[AHSaves]

I don't understand the love for Deduno. He only looked good in relation to the rest of our starters. I know the some stats are acceptable, but I would find it hard to believe he'd start for anyone else. He's 30 and STILL doesn't know whether his fastball will cut or break away. I wouldn't want to catch either if I were Doumit and Deduno was throwing balls in the opposite batters box then shrugging his "I have no idea" shoulders. Our rotations have been full of embarrassment, but it doesn't have to be that way anymore. Worley for #5 with Diamond in the pen.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't understand the love for Deduno. He only looked good in relation to the rest of our starters. I know the some stats are acceptable, but I would find it hard to believe he'd start for anyone else. He's 30 and STILL doesn't know whether his fastball will cut or break away. I wouldn't want to catch either if I were Doumit and Deduno was throwing balls in the opposite batters box then shrugging his "I have no idea" shoulders. Our rotations have been full of embarrassment, but it doesn't have to be that way anymore. Worley for #5 with Diamond in the pen.

 

The love for Deduno stems from the fact that hitters don't seem to know where that fastball is going either

 

I think it really comes down to the fact that Deduno could suddenly figure things out and be the next RA Dickey. He's frustrating to watch at times, but you see flashes of talent with him that's largely absent from the rest of the rotation. The odds of him doing that are about as good as Dickey's odds were, but who knows... it could happen.

[DaveW]

Couple things:

 

Doumit is a very poor defensive catcher, he should note be playing behind the dish.

 

And more importantly, he came out recently saying he doesn't want to/won't catch any more. Under no circumstance will he be a back up catcher, its questionable if he would even be the emergency catcher.

 

For better or worse, Pinto is going to be the regular C this season, now the only question is if the Twins bring in a legit back up like Suzuki, or they decide to roll with Fryer/Hermann as the backups (not appealing)

[DaveW]

The love for Deduno stems from the fact that hitters don't seem to know where that fastball is going either

 

I think it really comes down to the fact that Deduno could suddenly figure things out and be the next RA Dickey. He's frustrating to watch at times, but you see flashes of talent with him that's largely absent from the rest of the rotation. The odds of him doing that are about as good as Dickey's odds were, but who knows... it could happen.

 

The problem with waiting for the next Dickey is you are literally waiting for lightning in a bottle. It would be the same thing as teams going after grocery baggers because Kurt Warner suddenly came out of no where.

 

Dickey became an ACE because he mastered a pitch only a couple of players prior to him had, DeDuno, while I think can be successful will never have that upside. I just cant see anyway he ends up anything more than a #4/#5. Now, while I don't think the Twins need to cut him or anything anytime soon, he certainly shouldn't be penciled in for anything at this point, and should NOT be preventing them from bringing in other pitchers as well.

 

Again, its a nice story, I like to watch him pitch a lot and I hope he succeeds, preferably as the Twins 5th starter for the next year or two. Fortunately for him, he will certainly get the chance to prove himself for the Twins in 2014 (provided he is healthY)

[jay]

Well, I actually tink Gibson could be the third best pitcher on the roster, maybe Worley. We are discussing who will be the 5th known starter, not 5th best starter, right?

 

Bingo, mike. Gibson has the highest ceiling of all these guys we're talking about, but he also has two options remaining. He probably wouldn't suffer from a little more AAA anyway based on his MLB performance last year.

[pierre75275]

I think Ryan Pressly is in the bullpen in AAA and Diamond takes his spot. Deduno on the DL and Worley starts with the big club

[edavis0308]

I skimmed this threat quick, so maybe this was touched on and I missed it..

 

Anyway, one of my friends that is a Braves fan has read that the Braves at some point are/were interested in trading for KC. I, however, have not seen such information, though it would make sense if we continue to pursue pitching. Has anyone else seen anything along these lines?

[DaveW]

I skimmed this threat quick, so maybe this was touched on and I missed it..

 

Anyway, one of my friends that is a Braves fan has read that the Braves at some point are/were interested in trading for KC. I, however, have not seen such information, though it would make sense if we continue to pursue pitching. Has anyone else seen anything along these lines?

At this point I think it only makes sense if they acqurie a guy like: Garza, Jimenez or Bailey via trade. Guys like Maholm and Arroyo are basically lateral moves at this point and would prob require more years/money than Correia.

 

At this point I think the Twins should either acquire a #2 type like Bailey/Garza/Jimenez or just roll with what they have and offer Johan a minor league deal+ incentives.

 

Part of me wishes they could somehow offer Johan a major league deal (1.5 mil base, 7-8 mil in incentives with IP) along with a team option for 2015 for 7-10 mil. Would this even be possible? This would at least give them the advantage of having him for another year if he makes a big recovery.

[Willihammer]

Answer: Tomo Ohka.

[Thrylos]

I think Ryan Pressly is in the bullpen in AAA and Diamond takes his spot. Deduno on the DL and Worley starts with the big club

 

Pressly will likely be in the AAA rotation. Also, Roenicke was let go so there is a spot there that likely is Tonkin's to lose. I would not think that Thielbar's spot is cemented as well. Those 2 have options, so you can potentially hide 2 of Worley, Deduno, Diamond in the pen if you are so inclined, but the last 2 are not suited for relief work...

[jay]

Pressly will likely be in the AAA rotation. Also, Roenicke was let go so there is a spot there that likely is Tonkin's to lose. I would not think that Thielbar's spot is cemented as well. Those 2 have options, so you can potentially hide 2 of Worley, Deduno, Diamond in the pen if you are so inclined, but the last 2 are not suited for relief work...

 

I was hoping Diamond could be a second LH option behind Duensing in the 'pen, but his numbers sure don't support that. OPS against vs LH batters is a staggering .859 vs .764 for righties. Diamond succeeds or fails with the groundball. 1.91 GB/FB and 52.7% GB vs righties compared to 1.27 GB/FB and only 42% GB vs lefties.

 

Not good. I think he'll have to win the 5th starter spot or be squeezed out.