Article: Liam Hendriks Has Run Out of Chances

[Nick Nelson]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2347-Liam-Hendriks-Has-Run-Out-of-Chances

[Siehbiscuit]

I was all for giving this guy a chance as well. But he is just another clone of Blackburn, DeVries, Walters, and all the other soft tossing AAAA pitcher this organization has. We need more guys like Meyers and May that can get 6-10+ strikeouts per night.

[Thegrin]

He is young. Hendricks can still learn to pitch. He can learn to move the ball up and down, in and out while changing speeds with each pitch. If he learns to pitch, his Strikeout rate will improve, his groundball rate will improve, and his location will improve. This is what the minor leagues are for. We have Albers and Diamond, who are a couple years older, and they are learning to be pitchers. Hendricks can learn to do it as well.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

I believe he is young enough (24) to get another chance. Maybe here, maybe a change of scenery. Cut him off the 40 man roster. If he is claimed, so be it. If not, give him a Rochester contract and a spring training invite.

[Kwak]

Learn to pitch. Except the Twins don't teach pitching. The Twins preach promote (or punish) pitch-count and "attacking the strikezone". Sadly, pitching is short-circuited by throwing, and the results at the major league level show exactly that. In order for Hendriks to "learn pitching" he will have to do so for a team that actually teaches pitching. Given his age and baseball level (AAA) I am skeptical anyone will invest the resources for Hendriks. It seems his career will have to be as a relief pitcher.

[Shane Wahl]

I would not keep him on the 40-man roster. I don't know what else to do with him. It was frustrating Monday because he hit 94 at least once. I don't remember EVER seeing that from him. He was consistently at 92. But it was rather straight and it was also the only pitch he could throw for a strike. They took every breaking ball for a ball. I don't know if I am exaggerating at all there. And they kept trying to throw the damn thing on almost every other pitch.

 

The Dunn smash to just under the yellow line and into Presley's glove was the only true well-hit ball. But missed bats? Almost none. They fouled off every good fastball he threw and then blooped or "duck snorted" (as Hawk would say if it was the opposing team's hitters) the rest.

 

Given his youth, I would try to get him to Rochester next year, hope he does well there, and then try to add him in to a trade deal with somebody at the deadline for somebody.

[Shane Wahl]

And "relief pitcher" isn't a terrible idea.

[TheLeviathan]

This guy just baffles me. How can you have his repetoire and his minor league success and still be this awful?

 

I almost want to keep giving him chances just because I don't get why he sucks.

[Seth Stohs]

I'm a huge believer in Liam Hendriks, have been for a long time. I still believe that he has the stuff to be a decent 3/4 starter. he's still young. He's very smart. Plenty of pitchers have been long-term successful for a long time with less stuff. Seems to be a little between the ears with him right now. I think he'll be decent down the line. I hate to see the Twins let him go. But, this might be a classic change-of-scenery thing.

[Mike Sixel]

No matter what, TR can't assume he's a starter next year. He has to assume he gets nothing from Liam, and be happy if he does somehw. count me in the shocked how bad he's been again this year.

[COtwin]

I think that there is still a chance he figures it out. If we let him go, I think he ends up somewhere else. I will be pissed if we remove him from the 40 man, but keep Pedro or Cole, or (insert other pitcher with no upside). If we are gonna clean house then lets do it across the board.

[ashbury]

Could a different pitching coach be the change-of-scenery he needs? I'm not in the Anderson Is Terrible camp, but sometimes a switch to someone else that is good but has a different approach could make a difference with the non-performers on the roster. The question about the 40-man slot is vexing of course - that roster is littered with marginal cases like Liam.

[Marta Shearing]

Him and swarzak should have switched rolls long ago.

[cmathewson]

I'm a huge believer in Liam Hendriks, have been for a long time. I still believe that he has the stuff to be a decent 3/4 starter. he's still young. He's very smart. Plenty of pitchers have been long-term successful for a long time with less stuff. Seems to be a little between the ears with him right now. I think he'll be decent down the line. I hate to see the Twins let him go. But, this might be a classic change-of-scenery thing.

 

I can't think of a suspect upon which we have disagreed so starkly. Maybe Slowey.

 

I didn't want them to give him another chance this year, let alone two. I've seen enough of him to know he's never going to amount to much as a starter in the big leagues. If you go back into the anals of Twins pitching history, you will be hard pressed to find a guy who was allowed to fail so many times and for so long. Sorry Liam, the truth hurts.

[howieramone1406390264]

Him and swarzak should have switched rolls long ago.

 

Swarzak has finally found a spot where he shines, why make a change? He's not going to fix the black hole, but appears he can contribute to the future as a long reliever. There does come a time to take what you can get and move on to the next candidate. Not really unlike Perkins and both have been in the organization since 2004.

[Oxtung]

I can't think of a suspect upon which we have disagreed so starkly. Maybe Slowey.

 

I didn't want them to give him another chance this year, let alone two. I've seen enough of him to know he's never going to amount to much as a starter in the big leagues. If you go back into the anals of Twins pitching history, you will be hard pressed to find a guy who was allowed to fail so many times and for so long. Sorry Liam, the truth hurts.

 

The Twins annals are filled with pitchers that have been given long leashes despite their failure. Frankie Rodriguez, Pat Mahomes, Jose Parra, Scott Aldred and Rich Robertson all pitched more innings than Hendriks for the Twins with hideous ERA's. I only had to look at 2 years in the late 90's to find these guys. Hell the poster boy for failure as a starter is LaTroy Hawkins. 521 innings pitched and a 6.21 ERA. Liam pales in comparison.

[cmathewson]

The Twins annals are filled with pitchers that have been given long leashes despite their failure. Frankie Rodriguez, Pat Mahomes, Jose Parra, Scott Aldred and Rich Robertson all pitched more innings than Hendriks for the Twins with hideous ERA's. I only had to look at 2 years in the late 90's to find these guys. Hell the poster boy for failure as a starter is LaTroy Hawkins. 521 innings pitched and a 6.21 ERA. Liam pales in comparison.

 

First of all, if you had to pick a decade with the worst pitching in Twins history (besides the teens), you'd pick the 90s.

 

Secondly, I don't like your comps.

 

Frankie Rodriguez pitched 206 innings one year. He had three better years than Hendriks. The next year he sucked and was gone.

 

Aldred Pitched in parts of two seasons and was gone, after he had been in the major leagues for six years

 

Robertson had a 3.83 ERA his first year and three shutouts in the next. In his third year, he sucked and was gone

 

Parra pitched parts of two seasons (mostly as a reliever) and not more than 70 innings in either of them

 

Pat Mahomes and LeTroy Hawkins were both former phenoms who threw in the upper 90s. They are still perhaps the best comps for Liam considering that both had successful careers as relievers after leaving the Twins. But Liam doesn't throw that hard, so I kind of doubt it.

 

Finally, I don't think innings is the best measure of how many chances a guy gets. Liam Hendriks has been given five chances. In each case, he has been historically bad. The reason he has not racked up innings is he's so bad, they have to pull him in the fourth inning a lot and end up sending him down. Then he pitches OK at AAA, and they call him back up again, where he is horrible. If he was at all good, he would have put up more innings than all but Rodriguez on your list.

[Oxtung]

First of all, if you had to pick a decade with the worst pitching in Twins history (besides the teens), you'd pick the 90s.

 

Secondly, I don't like your comps.

 

Frankie Rodriguez pitched 206 innings one year. He had three better years than Hendriks. The next year he sucked and was gone.

 

Aldred Pitched in parts of two seasons and was gone, after he had been in the major leagues for six years

 

Robertson had a 3.83 ERA his first year and three shutouts in the next. In his third year, he sucked and was gone

 

Parra pitched parts of two seasons (mostly as a reliever) and not more than 70 innings in either of them

 

Pat Mahomes and LeTroy Hawkins were both former phenoms who threw in the upper 90s. They are still perhaps the best comps for Liam considering that both had successful careers as relievers after leaving the Twins. But Liam doesn't throw that hard, so I kind of doubt it.

 

Finally, I don't think innings is the best measure of how many chances a guy gets. Liam Hendriks has been given five chances. In each case, he has been historically bad. The reason he has not racked up innings is he's so bad, they have to pull him in the fourth inning a lot and end up sending him down. Then he pitches OK at AAA, and they call him back up again, where he is horrible. If he was at all good, he would have put up more innings than all but Rodriguez on your list.

 

I'm not arguing Hendriks is a good starter (or will become one). I am saying the Twins let pitchers struggle for quite a while before they pull the plug. Hendriks is not a rarity. I would be interested to see what he brings to the bullpen. Perkins wasn't lighting up radar guns as a starter either....

[Danchat]

I have to agree with Shane. Try him out in the bullpen, and if that doesn't work, aidos.

I'd take him any day over De Vries and Walters, but that's it. I think he's done as a starter.

[beckmt]

Move him to the pen now. Then off the 40 man roster(along with the rest of the scholarship players. If he clears waviers, send him to Rochester and try and get something for him. Do not give him another chance.

[Rosterman]

The chances are good that he would pass thru waivers. Not sure if he becomes a minor league free agent then or not. I don't really see anby otehr team claiming him and letting him hold a 40-man spot. I can see any number of teams giving him a tryout (because of his age). I'm not sure if he would work in the long-relief role. Not even sure if he is necessary for short relief or to be groomed as a closer. With his success at AAA, he would be just as good as any number of other guys, and maybe have a resurgence like Perkins down the line (we remember that period in Perkins time, right). But for now, I see him looking for a job, rather than worrying about a job.

[Shane Wahl]

He was dialing it up to 94. Maybe in the bullpen that becomes regular 93-95.

[lyndon]

I can't think of a suspect upon which we have disagreed so starkly. Maybe Slowey.

 

I didn't want them to give him another chance this year, let alone two. I've seen enough of him to know he's never going to amount to much as a starter in the big leagues. If you go back into the anals of Twins pitching history, you will be hard pressed to find a guy who was allowed to fail so many times and for so long. Sorry Liam, the truth hurts.

 

I'm pretty sure we're in the anals of Twins pitching history right now.

[Alex]

I'm pretty sure we're in the anals of Twins pitching history right now.

 

OT: This reminded me of Tobias (from Arrested Development) and his combination career...

[cmathewson]

I'm pretty sure we're in the anals of Twins pitching history right now.

 

I was wondering whether someone would catch that. And I agree. I've been following the team since 67 and I never remember a three-year stretch with worse pitching. Even in the 90s we had guys like Tapani and Radke.

[jorgenswest]

Franks Viola was given 56 starts in his first two seasons. His second season he had an ERA+ of 77. Brad Radke led the league in home runs given up his first two seasons.

 

They were both given a long sustained opportunity in the majors. They weren't pitching each start as if it was their last. I don't know if Hendriks was worth the same opportunity given his success in the minors. The Twins will never know. For his sake, I hope they release him and a team like the Pirates gives him a fresh start.

[Steve Johnson]

Why are we talking about dumping him from the 40-Man Roster? There is so much dead-weight on it currently, why dump a 24-year old Starting Pitcher?

 

And it's not like there are guys at AA he's blocking by being at AAA.

 

He has ongoing issues at the ML level, and given his mediocre performance at AAA, maybe he's in decline, or maybe something's wrong. Here's what you do with a 24-year old pitcher who's not out of options: you bring him to spring training, and from there he either makes the opening day roster, or he goes to AAA.

[Guest USAFChief]

Why are we talking about dumping him from the 40-Man Roster? There is so much dead-weight on it currently, why dump a 24-year old Starting Pitcher?

 

And it's not like there are guys at AA he's blocking by being at AAA.

 

He has ongoing issues at the ML level, and given his mediocre performance at AAA, maybe he's in decline, or maybe something's wrong. Here's what you do with a 24-year old pitcher who's not out of options: you bring him to spring training, and from there he either makes the opening day roster, or he goes to AAA.

According to the article he's out of options next yr.

[DuluthFan]

According to the article, Hendricks is out of options. If that is correct, that means he must be on the major league roster next year. There would be no sending him to Rochester to work on things. Unfortunately this is one of the problems with bringing up the young players too early. They are wasting their mlb service time when they should be developing and learning at the lower levels. If Hendricks is removed from the 40 man roster, he can still be resigned to a minor league deal.

[notoriousgod71]

It really doesn't matter if we let Hendricks go or not. We have a dozen more of the exact same pitcher waiting in AAA.