Pirates still interested in Justin Morneau

[Parker Hageman]

The Pittsburgh Pirates, who are making their first playoff push since Barry Bonds trolled the Three Rivers Stadium outfield, acquired outfielder Marlon Byrd and John Buck from the Mets to help bolster their odds. According to CBSSports.com’s Jon Heyman, the Pirates may not be done in making moves before the August 31 waiver trade deadline.

 

Heyman says the Pirates have continued interest in Justin Morneau, who cleared waivers and is able to be traded to any team. He also reports that the Twins have warmed on the idea of paying some of the estimated $3 million remaining on his contract. That said, Heyman reports that the Twins are expecting a “high” return.

 

Morneau has seen some of his power return in the season’s second-half, hitting eight home runs in 165 plate appearances after hitting just seven in his previous 366. Still, overall, he’s well behind in a vast majority of offensive categories among first baseman over the past two years. Dating back to 2011, his OPS (.756), HR (34) and slugging percentage (.430) have all ranked 19^th while his WAR (1.1) has ranked 18^th.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Sounds like negotiating through the press - they're trying to get Morneau for virtually nothing, and are hoping that by leaking the word that the Twins demands are "high" they can get Ryan to lower his asking price to near what they want.

 

They're the ones chasing the playoffs for the first time in a gazillion years. If they want Morneau for a final push, let's make them give us something for it - Single-A is fine, as long as it is a legitimate prospect.

[cmathewson]

How about we pay $1 million of Justin's salary and take their competitive balance pick for 2014?

[IdahoPilgrim]

How about we pay $1 million of Justin's salary and take their competitive balance pick for 2014?

 

1st or 2nd rnd pick? I'd take that.

[amjgt]

I'd take Victor Black -

Mid teens rated in the org.

Relief pitcher (closer) at AAA

WHIP around 1.0

K/9 around 12

 

Twins should expect to pick up like 2mil of the ~3mil remaining

[diehardtwinsfan]

I wouldn't mind grabbing Stolmy Pimentel. I've mentioned this in another thread. He's 23 and putting up some pretty decent numbers in Indianapolis right now. He's out of options though, so he'd spend some time working with Cuellar in the rotation for 2014. Don't let the K rate fool you, he hits 95 consistently and deep into games. His problem appears to be fine tuning his control (his walk rate is fine, he just doesn't hit those spots well enough).

[amjgt]

I'd take Victor Black -

Mid teens rated in the org.

Relief pitcher (closer) at AAA

WHIP around 1.0

K/9 around 12

 

Twins should expect to pick up like 2mil of the ~3mil remaining

 

Quoting myself... Sorry...

 

Then I would quickly turn around and send Burton through waivers and see what happens.

[nicksaviking]

Is Nick Kingham out of the question? #9 prospect? Probably.

[S.]

Vic Black was the PTBNL in their trade with the Mets.

[amjgt]

Vic Black was the PTBNL in their trade with the Mets.

Crap.

[Alex]

Sounds like negotiating through the press - they're trying to get Morneau for virtually nothing, and are hoping that by leaking the word that the Twins demands are "high" they can get Ryan to lower his asking price to near what they want.

 

 

It's been a pretty common theme since Ryan took over that the Twins demands have been "high" in relation to anyone of value. It could be a negotiating tactic, but it's been there (Willingham, Perkins, Morneau previously). It wouldn't surprise me, either, if Ryan has rigid high expectations for return on players because that would seem to "mirror" his also rigid philosophy on free agency where he wants to come in low.

[Shane Wahl]

I'd take Victor Black -

Mid teens rated in the org.

Relief pitcher (closer) at AAA

WHIP around 1.0

K/9 around 12

 

Twins should expect to pick up like 2mil of the ~3mil remaining

 

Vik Black is one of the players I mentioned about 6 weeks ago. Absolutely would like him.

[Shane Wahl]

Vic Black was the PTBNL in their trade with the Mets.

 

WHOA! That's a good PTBNL.

[old nurse]

Byrd and Buck are having career years, playing well above league average. Morneau is not. Look towards the bottom of someone's prospect list for a ceiling of back of rotation starter and maybe the Twins could have him for Morneau.

[robbie111]

If they could get Tyler Glasnow, it might rank as one of TR best trades ever. Don't think there's much chance though. Can't believe what he got for Butera so could always hope.

[cmb0252]

If they could get Tyler Glasnow, it might rank as one of TR best trades ever. Don't think there's much chance though. Can't believe what he got for Butera so could always hope.

 

That's way too much for Justin. Target their second round competitive balance pick. The Twins have drafted well recently.

[Oxtung]

Sounds like negotiating through the press - they're trying to get Morneau for virtually nothing, and are hoping that by leaking the word that the Twins demands are "high" they can get Ryan to lower his asking price to near what they want.

 

They're the ones chasing the playoffs for the first time in a gazillion years. If they want Morneau for a final push, let's make them give us something for it - Single-A is fine, as long as it is a legitimate prospect.

 

Could you be a little more specific on what a "legit prospect" is to you? How about we shop in the Twins system to make things easier? You mentioned Single-A so (in descending order roughly) Berrios, Polanco, Kepler tier? Harrison, Walker, Goodrum tier? Madison Boer, Hudson Boyd, Tyler Grimes tier?

 

I am not sure there is a big difference in the return people want in the "trade Morneau" discussions but I wonder if we are labeling it differently.

 

I see the Berrios tier as "legit prospects". They are all top 10 in the Twins system probably. Harrison's tier seem to be fliers to me. Guys with big questions but also potential to be very good players if they can solve them. At this point Boer and Boyd seem to be filler for the most part, unlikely to contribute to the big league team in any meaningful manner (although I think Boyd could yet turn out to be an interesting reliever).

[old nurse]

If they could get Tyler Glasnow, it might rank as one of TR best trades ever. Don't think there's much chance though. Can't believe what he got for Butera so could always hope.

Backup catchers seem to be valuable, look at the trade for Buck.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Could you be a little more specific on what a "legit prospect" is to you? How about we shop in the Twins system to make things easier? You mentioned Single-A so (in descending order roughly) Berrios, Polanco, Kepler tier? Harrison, Walker, Goodrum tier? Madison Boer, Hudson Boyd, Tyler Grimes tier?

 

Berrios/Polanco/Kepler tier would be a good trade - I'd consider it well done by Ryan. I'd eat his whole salary to make this happen.

 

Harrison/Walker/Goodrum would be OK for me too - I'd call that a push. I might eat a little salary for this, but not much.

 

Boer/Boyd/Grimes would be giving him away for nothing.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Could you be a little more specific on what a "legit prospect" is to you? How about we shop in the Twins system to make things easier? You mentioned Single-A so (in descending order roughly) Berrios, Polanco, Kepler tier? Harrison, Walker, Goodrum tier? Madison Boer, Hudson Boyd, Tyler Grimes tier?

 

I am not sure there is a big difference in the return people want in the "trade Morneau" discussions but I wonder if we are labeling it differently.

 

I see the Berrios tier as "legit prospects". They are all top 10 in the Twins system probably. Harrison's tier seem to be fliers to me. Guys with big questions but also potential to be very good players if they can solve them. At this point Boer and Boyd seem to be filler for the most part, unlikely to contribute to the big league team in any meaningful manner (although I think Boyd could yet turn out to be an interesting reliever).

 

I don't have a problem targeting a guy who can be a very good player if he can solve his big question... whatever that may be. As a matter of fact, I'd probably prefer a guy like that vs. a guy who has a higher floor and lower ceiling. That's my 2 cents at least. We have plenty of 5th starter type guys both in Rochester and coming up through the system. I'd rather swing for the fences here.

[Shane Wahl]

Back now over two months ago, I blogged about a trade involving the Pirates (NOTE: these are the stats from back then. ALSO NOTE: Vic Black was the PTNBL with the Mets):

 

Pittsburgh Pirates:

 

Vic Black, RHP, reliever, 25 (AAA)

2013 AAA: 2.62, 24.0, 33/11

 

Twins system: likely headed to Rochester

 

Nick Kingham, RHP, starter, 21 (A+/AA)

2013 A+: 3.09, 70, 75/14

 

Twins system: likely headed to New Britain

 

 

Adrian Sampson, RHP, starter, 21 (A+)

2013 A+: 5.56, 66.1, 37/12 (2012 numbers in A ball included a 9.3/9 K rate)

 

Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers

 

 

Max Moroff, SH, SS, 20 (A)

2013 A: 248, .228/.350/.351 (.701), 9/1/5, 39/40, 4-9

 

Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids

 

 

Alex Dickerson, LH, 1B/RF, 23 (AA)

2013 AA: 216, .238/.285/.417 (.702) 17/2/5, 13/51, 3-5

 

Twins system: likely headed to New Britain

[Shane Wahl]

Those were all guys roughly in the 10-20 on Pirates prospect list. Kingham has ended up doing pretty well in AA.

[jorgenswest]

Backup catchers seem to be valuable, look at the trade for Buck.

 

Buck is an above average pitch framer. The Pirates and some other teams think this has a significant effect on the game. Russell Martin is very good. How much did his addition help the improvement in pitching numbers? The Pirates certainly have changed their catching over since 2011.

[Shane Wahl]

On Pirates MLB site, Kingham a 9, Dickerson a 13, and Sampson a 20.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I could go for Kingham.

[twinsin17]

I am all for Kingham as well. Can't have enough big, young power pitchers given all the arm injuries and flop rate for pitching prospects who fair well in the minors but their stuff doesn't translate to success in the majors. Best case scenario? Trade for Kingham then sign Morneau for 2/$15m in the offseason. Trading him should help us lose more games to get a better pick next year.

[Alex]

I am all for Kingham as well. Can't have enough big, young power pitchers given all the arm injuries and flop rate for pitching prospects who fair well in the minors but their stuff doesn't translate to success in the majors. Best case scenario? Trade for Kingham then sign Morneau for 2/$15m in the offseason. Trading him should help us lose more games to get a better pick next year.

 

I posted this elsewhere, but if anyone thinks that there's a rationale reason to sign Morneau, they need to read even an outsider's perspective here: The Problem With Justin Morneau - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

[jay]

Buck is an above average pitch framer. The Pirates and some other teams think this has a significant effect on the game. Russell Martin is very good. How much did his addition help the improvement in pitching numbers? The Pirates certainly have changed their catching over since 2011.

 

Great point. They are also well regarded for having a strong statistical analysis team. I apologize for the pun, but you can see some pretty clear correlations going on here.

[Mr. Brooks]

Sounds like negotiating through the press - they're trying to get Morneau for virtually nothing, and are hoping that by leaking the word that the Twins demands are "high" they can get Ryan to lower his asking price to near what they want.

 

They're the ones chasing the playoffs for the first time in a gazillion years. If they want Morneau for a final push, let's make them give us something for it - Single-A is fine, as long as it is a legitimate prospect.

 

Another source is now saying that the asking price is also way too high on Willingham. He must be part of the conspiracy as well. It couldn't just be as simple as Terry Ryan really is asking way too much for these players.

 

#Orioles still trying to swing deal with #Mariners for Morse. Willingham not happening at this point. Twins asking way too much per sources

 

[Brandon]

The Pirates should go for Collabello to platoon with Garrett. That should be the smarter move for them...