2 outs away from his 3rd straight complete game

[robbie111]

Firstly congrats to Albers. Liked his interview and Collabello's and Herrmann's as well. Hoping Deduno follows suit today with more of the same (opposing batters weak contact).

 

Now the question, was it right to not let him finish or was Gardy right to protect his arm? It wasn't quite the no hitter like Kevin Slowey when he was pulled, but I think as much as I want to criticize this decision, I really can't.

 

Also was that the longest start of the year for a Twins pitcher or has anyone had a longer start?

 

Thoughts?

[DaveW]

He was at 109 pitches and was out of gas. The last thing you wanna do is leave him in to long. Shutouts/complete games are pretty meaningless.

[Badsmerf]

Meaningless? I really wouldn't go that far. I would have let him keep going. He had a complete game shutout going, how often does that happen? He was only at 109 pitches, let him try to get a double play with the next batter. Send Andy out to give him a breather and tell him to throw strikes. Stop this babying.

[Riverbrian]

I wanted him to finish and I think Gardy should have let him finish. A complete game in his MLB Debut.

 

I'm not worked up about it but disappointed that he got pulled. I think Albers is pretty happy today regardless... I doubt he's complaining at all.

[Guest USAFChief]

IMO pulling him was the right call.

[E. Andrew]

Yeah, I'd have liked to see him complete it. There's not much to cheer about, and even fans that know the excitement about him probably won't last long, a complete game is cool here and there, especially in a debut. I think Bert was pretty upset off the air - - as soon as the game resumed, he disagreed with Gardenhire, and Dick replied "Please don't hit me."

[Gernzy]

Completely the correct call. It would have been nice to see him get the shutout. After just missing that double play you could tell it was falling apart. If he didn't give up a 4 pitch walk to the next batter he might have stayed in, but going through the heart of the order at that time you have to take him out.

[Seth Stohs]

I would have loved to have seen him get a chance, but I really thought it was the right decision at the time. Maybe the PA for Hosmer, with four straight balls, was just an anomaly, but he looked like he was done. There was some cushion, so if Butler would have homered off of him, he still have a 4-run lead, but I felt it was far enough. Fortunately Fien got the DP ball two batters later to maintain the shutout.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I agree with USAFChief. It was the right call.

 

IIRC, he had just walked a guy on 4 pitches. To leave him in and have him give up a couple of runs would have lost something, especially if he had been unable to finish the game.

 

Kansas City is a good ball club and could have started doing real damage at any time.

[ThePuck]

I wanted him to finish and I think Gardy should have let him finish. A complete game in his MLB Debut.

 

 

It's not like he had a no-hitter going... :-)

[Guest USAFChief]

It's not like he had a no-hitter going... :-)

Well now you jinxed it...way to go.

[Badsmerf]

Have to take him out why? He had a ****ing shutout and was up by 7 runs! Yeah he was out of gas and struggling, that is why you keep him in a let him push through it. How is he or any pitcher going to learn to pitch when they are tired if Gardy/Andy don't let them? This isn't April or even late September. Let the kid work and have a shot.

[CwK]

Can't link a reference or article, but haven't "doctors" stated that arm problems are the result of pitching past exhaustion, not overthrowing or pitching too many days in a row? I don't know. Don't mind saving arms. I don't think it's "gritty" when arms have proven to be so delicate. I also don't think it's a mindset. Tommy John is just too prevalent today.

[jay]

For all the fussing about Gibson's inning count prior to his call up, I'm surprised we don't see anything here. He's already seen a jump in IP this year, so 120-130 pitch outings probably aren't a great idea at this point.

2010 - 57.2 IP (reliever)

2011 - 95.2 IP

2012 - 103 IP

2013 - 132.1 IP prior to last night

[Steve Lein]

Can't link a reference or article, but haven't "doctors" stated that arm problems are the result of pitching past exhaustion, not overthrowing or pitching too many days in a row? I don't know. Don't mind saving arms. I don't think it's "gritty" when arms have proven to be so delicate. I also don't think it's a mindset. Tommy John is just too prevalent today.

 

This is where you have to look deeper than the "total" pitch count. 110 pitches in 5 or 6 innings is a lot worse than 110 pitches in 9. It's when you're throwing 20+ pitches in an inning or multiple innings where the stress is built up.

 

Albers threw 11, 10, 11, 10, 9, 16, 17, 14, and 11 pitches by inning. None of those pitch counts are overly stressful. He was in and out of the Twins dugout pretty quick all night, and never really labored until the very end.

 

There are reasons pitchers like Verlander, Kershaw, Darvish, etc... are routinely throwing in excess of 100 pitches, often 120+. If guys like that are pitching like they usually do, 120 pitches in 8 innings averages out to 15/inning. That's not a stressful workload.

 

For reference, Verlander has thrown 100+ pitches for 15 consecutive starts. By the logic many seem to follow about pitch counts/injury risk, that should never happen. But the reality is he's able to go that long so consistently because he rarely gets hit with a big 25+ pitch inning where he tires.

 

Personally, I would have let Albers go until he gave up a run. Who knows, he could have gotten the DP grounder a single pitch later too. I also wouldn't have used Fien in relief, though not sure what the options were with Jamey Carrol having to pitch the night before.

[SpitefulRabbit617]

8/7/13 - Rookie Albers throws a complete game shutout in his MLB Debut!

 

8/10/13 Rookie Albers will be headed to the 15-day DL for shoulder tightness or some other BS.

 

Who cares about the novalty of the CGSHO on your first start when the team isnt going anywhere this year?

 

Thats like whining about keeping Liriano for another year even tho its the NL/non DH thats helping his head.

 

p00p

[luckylager]

At the time I disagreed with the hook, but Albers was probably gassed and Gardy probably did the right thing. Fien came in and did his job. Everyone left happy except the Royals and their fans. A fun game to watch and those have been a rarity.

[big dog]

This is a lot more fun than most of the post-game/post-trade deadline discussions we've had. In this case, is the glass 8/9 full or 1/9 empty? Gardy and Anderson were probably in shock just seeing a pitcher get into the ninth inning (or past the sixth)- I'm glad no one had a serious medical emergency.

[nicksaviking]

I think he should have stayed in, and I wouldn't be surprised if Gardy regretted the decision immediately. He's the one who was always talking about how Pelfrey and Correia "earned" the right to go out for an additional inning or the chance to work out of a jam earlier in the year.

 

Not to minimize his future, but Albers isn't some 21-year-old top prospect. He's 27 and was an afterthought until about a month ago. I hope he's a long term solution, but this very well may be the apex of his career.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's not really fair to pin this on Gardy. He was so shocked to get to the ninth without getting a chance to do some managin' that he panicked.

 

We should consider ourselves lucky that he didn't double-switch out the entire infield and eat the lineup card.

[jay]

I hope he's a long term solution, but this very well may be the apex of his career.

 

Hard to ignore that possibility, but you could probably say 8 1/3 shutout in your debut would be the apex for about 80% of the guys that ever make an MLB start.

[wagwan]

Have to take him out why? He had a ****ing shutout and was up by 7 runs! Yeah he was out of gas and struggling, that is why you keep him in a let him push through it. How is he or any pitcher going to learn to pitch when they are tired if Gardy/Andy don't let them? This isn't April or even late September. Let the kid work and have a shot.

Why do they have to learn to pitch when they are gassed? That's why you have a bullpen. You should never have a gassed pitcher on the mound.

[Nick Nelson]

Do people really care that much about such a superficial accomplishment? He had a fantastic outing. Getting pulled with two outs left doesn't change that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Do people really care that much about such a superficial accomplishment? He had a fantastic outing. Getting pulled with two outs left doesn't change that.

 

Yep. The Twins won a blowout and Albers had a magnificent MLB debut.

 

Past that, who cares? 8 1/3 innings, 9 innings... It doesn't matter.

[ericchri]

Does anybody else think of the end of "Major League" any time one of these discussions start? When the old guy who started for the Indians says something like, "I'm throwing every piece of junk I can think of at 'em skip, I've got enough for one more."

 

It was disappointing to not see him finish, but that 4-pitch walk to end his night looked pretty bad. I think I honestly said to myself when the first guy got on with the single, "if he walks somebody he's done."

 

Personally, I just hope Morneau keeps hitting homeruns to support his long-lost Canadian half-brother every time Albers starts.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It made for a much more annoying radio broadcast. After every pitch of the ninth inning, the announcers read his pitch count, and compared it to his past pitch counts this season. Even before the walk. I mean, really? 109 pitches in a game, into the ninth inning is that notable? Talk about how good he's been, how many innings he's gone -- great. But pitch count?

[big dog]

It made for a much more annoying radio broadcast. After every pitch of the ninth inning, the announcers read his pitch count, and compared it to his past pitch counts this season. Even before the walk. I mean, really? 109 pitches in a game, into the ninth inning is that notable? Talk about how good he's been, how many innings he's gone -- great. But pitch count?

 

I had the TV feed. You can imagine Bert's feeling about the pitch count. Well, you don't have to imagine it because it comes up about 4x a week.

[Badsmerf]

It does matter that he didn't get the complete game, especially since it was a shut out. Who are you guys kidding? I bet every single pitcher that threw a complete game shut-out doesn't think it is a meaningless stat. Seriously, that notion is beyond preposterous.

 

This discussion is a lame one. I think starting pitchers should be throwing 120 pitches per start if possible. Certainly there are time when a guy just isn't going to have it and will not make it. You want guys to go deeper into games they have to get used to pitching with fatigue. Coddling guys at 100 pitches is a great way to over-use the bullpen.

[Marta Shearing]

Up by 7 and two outs from a shutout in his first ML start, it was a travesty to pull him. How many players can lay claim to pitching a shutout in their first ML start? A select few. You leave him in until he loses the shutout. Obviously.

 

Are we honestly to the point where we have to worry about damaging his confidence if you leave him out there and he gives up a 3-run bomb? This aint little league. These are grown men. Except on this team they're coddled grown men.

[Chance]

The reason pitchers fatigue at 100 pitches is because they are conditioned to pitch 100 pitches. What is so magically about 100? why not 107 or 93? 114 pitches instead of 100 is not going to blow his arm up. It just isn't. He should have been allowed to pitch until he gave up a run. It a personal achievement that he could hang his hat on forever. It's more than just 8 1/3 or 9 innings. It's a personal accomplishment. No different than Winning the division or being content with the Wildcard. You keep going until its no longer a possibility.