Article: Gibson Gets the Call

[Otto von Ballpark]

Could Gibson travel with the team but not be added to the roster? Would he just not dress in uniform for the week? Or could he not show up at the ballpark?

 

It looks like the Mets called up Zack Wheeler as their doubleheader "26th man" to start last Tuesday, then sent him back to AAA Las Vegas as a procedural move, but have flown him to Chicago and will activate him to take his next turn to start again Tuesday. Sounds like he did not stay with the team when he was optioned out.

 

Alternatively, they could have sent him directly to Minneapolis to prepare for Saturday -- I'm guessing that wouldn't have run afoul of any roster rules. They could even have flown him to Miami if they wanted to see his bullpen and introduce him around the clubhouse, then to Minneapolis if rules simply prevented him from dressing or observing the game.

[twinsnorth49]

To paraphrase Allen Iverson " We talkin' 'bout baseball", right?

 

 

One person's glass is half empty and the other's is half full, I really don't see the difference. I think the negativity gets exaggerated and some people personalize it, that perspective is part of the overall narrative however and needs to be heard. In the big picture of this site, it seems pretty small to me and if it causes people to complain or drives them away, that's unfortnate, they're missing out.

[Badsmerf]

PS to Badsmurf: you had a really great run of posts ~6 months ago, so I admitted I was wrong and took you off my 'Ignore list'.

Thank you. I will make an effort to be a better person from here on out. I will not let my snark overcome my main goal at this site, I will not let ineptitude deter me from spreading the truth! Sounds really good in my head right now, but like a New Years resolution, I'll probably get tired of it.

[ThePuck]

From Rhett Bollinger. Twins MLB dot com write, who gets his info from the Twins, posted this:

 

'The Twins kept preaching that they wanted more consistency out of Gibson earlier in the year, as he didn't turn in back-to-back quality starts until mid-May. But he's now strung together four straight quality starts and has a 2.35 ERA over his last nine outings with two shutouts.

 

The deadline for Super Two status also passed, so if the Twins were holding him back for that reason, they don't have to worry about an extra year of arbitration anymore. Now, it'll be interesting to see how he's handled in the Majors, as he's expected to still be on an innings limit this year because he's coming off Tommy John surgery. Heading into the season, Gibson was expected to be limited to about 130-140 innings.'

 

 

Inbox: Could Twins be buyers at Trade Deadline? | twinsbaseball.com: News

[John Bonnes]

Hard to believe that fans of a team that want to talk a little baseball are getting bored/frustrated/sick of a constant drum beat of negativity with every move or decision the team makes.

 

This gets to the heart of the matter. I'll publish proposed Comment Policy changes for feedback tomorrow, but consistent unrelenting negativity turns into trolling. Right now, it looks like this....

 

#2 Trolling - Trolling. Trolling is often subtle and is hard to define, but can kill a forum in a hurry, so we take it seriously. Here are some examples:

- Making ridiculous or obviously stupid assertions and then defending them with illogic or drama.

- Persistently negative comments, especially if they're in a thread or topic that derails the thread. Our purpose is not to discourage negative viewpoints or debate, but in a forum dedicated towards a team, such behavior eventually crosses into trolling. If you are approaching that point, you'll need to practice extra caution, staying away from overly negative rhetoric and presenting coherent points. In short, you probably have less leash to work with, because the very act itself is bound to cause some reaction.

- One-line comments that add nothing but question everything.

 

There are more and we're learning them (much to our chagrin) so we'll try to keep adding examples. If you're warned for falling into this behavior, understand that we have become extra sensitive to those kind of posts.

[Winston Smith]

Back on topic:

Gibby will likely have some good and bad moments between now and when he is shut down. There should be no need to worry that it may hurt our playoff run when he is bad so he should get every chance to learn and be in a better position come next April.

[TheLeviathan]

Back on topic:

Gibby will likely have some good and bad moments between now and when he is shut down. There should be no need to worry that it may hurt our playoff run when he is bad so he should get every chance to learn and be in a better position come next April.

 

Exactly. That is the greatest thing about him finally getting up here and what was most annoying to me about him being kept in AAA. I get Super 2, I get working on little things, but we have to plan on this kid being a fixture and it takes time to learn the big league game.

 

This year is the perfect trial to make him ready to be what we need him to be. The longer we kept him in AAA, the less time he had to get his taste this year. That was by far the most frustrating thing to me.

[BabyJesusBuxton]

As a Twins fan I am excited to watch Gibson pitch in person and watch him develop as a MLB pitcher instead of hearing about his starts as a prospect in the minors! His addition, along with Hicks and Arcia, has made this year enjoyable to watch for the most part (albeit I had low expectations coming into the year which helps keep it enjoyable as apposed to frustrating).

 

I have to say that Gibson getting called up may have been merited about a month ago based on his performance at AAA and the performance of the Twins rotation as a whole. However, there have been several valid points others have brought up or hinted at that may shed light as to why it took as long as it has. (I chose not to go back through the 7 pages of irrelevant posts about negativity to find previous quotes)

 

1. Super 2 status. Although the FO will never admit this was a reason for delaying a promotion, I believe this did factor into the decision a small amount to the extent that the Twins kept him in the minors for an extra start or two.

2. Extra time for guys in the rotation. Giving the current rotation members time to either A. improve their numbers prior to the trade deadline to increase trade value (ie Pelfrey) or B. give the younger pitchers enough time to provide a larger sample to judge future potential on (ie Walters).

3. Season Outcome. The Twins are in a rebuilding year so there wasn't a huge hurry for Gibson to help the Twins win games to the extent that it would change the season's outcome. Whether he makes 8 starts or 20 starts this year I don't see that as being the difference between making the playoffs vs. trying to play 0.500 ball.

 

Most benefits of having Gibson in the majors this year relates to the typical Twins fan. By this I mean your neighbor who makes it to one game a year, watches a couple games on TV each week, but doesn't really get into prospects, advanced metrics, etc. I think this person makes up a majority of the Twins fan base. To these fans Gibson was one of the biggest names they have heard of and his promotion should sell some extra tickets and jerseys and boost interest in the Twins season.

[Riverbrian]

Back on topic:

Gibby will likely have some good and bad moments between now and when he is shut down. There should be no need to worry that it may hurt our playoff run when he is bad so he should get every chance to learn and be in a better position come next April.

 

I expect Good Games and Bad Games... Same expectation as everybody else. In the End... Gibson will prove himself ready or not. I'm excited to watch him work. Our Shiny New Toy!!!

[Red Bull]

I usualy love the Gleeman and the Geek podcasts but when I heard them compairing Gibson with Diamond and Baker I lost alot of respect for them. Gibsons cieling is way higher than what both Baker and Diamonds was. Yea Gibson probably wont be an ace but hes got potential to be a solid 2, something Diamond couldnt even dream about and same with Baker.

[ThePuck]

I usualy love the Gleeman and the Geek podcasts but when I heard them compairing Gibson with Diamond and Baker I lost alot of respect for them. Gibsons cieling is way higher than what both Baker and Diamonds was. Yea Gibson probably wont be an ace but hes got potential to be a solid 2, something Diamond couldnt even dream about and same with Baker.

 

I don't see why Baker is such a bad comparison. Baker had the stuff for sure to be a good number two and he had a couple years where he lived up to that. My issue with him is that I often doubted his toughness on the mound. Seemed eager to be pulled when things got rough; however, if talking just stuff, if Gibson has his kind of stuff, that's be a good thing. IMO.

[cmb0252]

First Hicks, then Arcia, and now Gibson. Even if the Twins don't break .500 this year I'm excited to watch these three. Go Twins!

[glunn]

So now we have opposing camps set up among the mods and admins.... Glunn and Brock have laid the down their own philosophical gauntlets, seemingly in diametric opposition to one another.

 

Perhaps a Twins Themed Poetry Slam is in order to determine the Wall of Fame positioning?

 

It can be billed as:

 

TD Internal Angst

 

The Techie Nerd vs. The Laid-back Lawyer----

 

to riff on the pressing TD Topic of the Day----

 

"I've Seen the Negativity and the Damage Done---Is There Really a Little Part of it in Everyone?"

 

As a moderator my job is to enforce TD policy not make it. Now that there is a policy against excessive negativity, I will be enforcing such policy. I had my say in the debate about this and such debate is over.

[glunn]

The weirdest part is, reading both posts, is that Glunn is MUCH quicker with the warnings and such than Brock. Yet, reading their philosophical posts, you'd think it'd be the other way around.

 

You need to distinguish between making policy and enforcing it. Moderators don't make policy. We are given a say in policy but the final decisions are made by the admins. I have great respect for Brock and the other admins and all of our debates are friendly and respectful, and I know that my concerns were heard and given due consideration.

 

Now that there is a policy against excessive negativity, I will be enforcing such policy with the same zeal as I try to enforce every other policy.

 

I would also emphasize John's point about allowing more leeway for negativity when it is phrased politely and with respect for others -- I believe that if people take this to heart then members with negative thoughts will be able to make their points while preserving the tone that makes TD better than unmoderated sites.

[cmathewson]

I don't see why Baker is such a bad comparison. Baker had the stuff for sure to be a good number two and he had a couple years where he lived up to that. My issue with him is that I often doubted his toughness on the mound. Seemed eager to be pulled when things got rough; however, if talking just stuff, if Gibson has his kind of stuff, that's be a good thing. IMO.

 

I think Gibson has a good chance to be better than Baker because he has a quality sinker and Baker does not. But I would be happy for a few years like Baker put up in his mid-20s and then we'll see what we've got.

[ThePuck]

I think Gibson has a good chance to be better than Baker because he has a quality sinker and Baker does not. But I would be happy for a few years like Baker put up in his mid-20s and then we'll see what we've got.

 

I guess my point was I don't see why it's such an insult to say he compares to Baker is all. We'll see how it works, but the person I was responding to seemed to think it was an outrage to compare him to Baker as if baker was some kind of scrub. He wasn't.

[jay]

I don't see why Baker is such a bad comparison. Baker had the stuff for sure to be a good number two and he had a couple years where he lived up to that. My issue with him is that I often doubted his toughness on the mound. Seemed eager to be pulled when things got rough; however, if talking just stuff, if Gibson has his kind of stuff, that's be a good thing. IMO.

 

Agreed on all points. If Baker could have stayed healthy, the Twins would have exercised his option and he'd be our "ace" this year.

 

Hopefully Gibson can exceed Baker's performance though. Gibby has a slightly better K rate and is a heavy GB pitcher as opposed to Baker's FB (and HR) tendencies.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I generally stay out of forum rules/etiquette debates, but it's worth noting that Aaron Gleeman has been a pretty prolific negative voice about the Twins for ~10 years now and he's prominently featured on this site. The main difference is, he's a better writer and he has his own blog (and doesn't wade into forums like this).

[twinsnorth49]

I don't see why Baker is such a bad comparison. Baker had the stuff for sure to be a good number two and he had a couple years where he lived up to that. My issue with him is that I often doubted his toughness on the mound. Seemed eager to be pulled when things got rough; however, if talking just stuff, if Gibson has his kind of stuff, that's be a good thing. IMO.

 

I think Baker is a pretty fitting comparison, comparable stuff and similar velocity with maybe a slight edge to gibson. Even their injury history us similar.......gulp!

 

Let's just hope Gibson plays more games for the Twins than Baker did.

[mcrow]

This is just sad. It honestly makes me not even want to come to a site that I write at. I'm amazed by people's (some people's) lack of civility and basic respect. We built this place not for people to whine about and complain about everything, over and over again. This should be civil discussion. Now the move that everyone has been waiting for has happened and right away, more whining. It's pathetic. I don't even know what to say anymore. We shouldn't have to continually post things about how to comment. It's not that hard!

 

And, that's me whining about the whining and the negative spin on everything. Thanks for listening!

 

And, congratulations to Kyle Gibson, one of the best people I have had the opportunity to meet and talk to. He knows pitching. He's smart. He's got stuff. I hope things go well for him!

 

This is the very reason I don't post here that much.

[drjim]

Exactly. That is the greatest thing about him finally getting up here and what was most annoying to me about him being kept in AAA. I get Super 2, I get working on little things, but we have to plan on this kid being a fixture and it takes time to learn the big league game.

 

This year is the perfect trial to make him ready to be what we need him to be. The longer we kept him in AAA, the less time he had to get his taste this year. That was by far the most frustrating thing to me.

 

 

I wanted Gibson up a month ago. That said, thos specific concern is vastly overrated in my opinion. It is good to get a taste of the bigs but a couple weeks worth of starts is not going to make a huge difference. He needed to get work and reps in and perhaps there is validity in working out the kinks in a lower pressure environment of AAA. Make sure he is as ready as he can be to stay permanently.

[drjim]

Except that there's plenty of baseball being talked, just not the way you want it talked. Are you surprised that after two consecutive seasons of being the worst team in the American League, there's negativity?

 

Personally, I don't think I fall into the category of always negative or always positive. There are good things going on and bad things going on. All of it should be discussed honestly.

 

I'll respond a couple of ways and then end my tjoughts on this matter. First, I personally don't really care that much how people discuss the Twins. I find the constant negativity more humorous than anything. I would probably respond a little more spirited and with more snark - but don't out of respect for the admins and their site. It is their money and time invested so the least I can do is respect their rules.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't speak for others, but it does seem there are many people who want to engage the discussions more but don't because of the constant negativity. That should be of concern to all people here.

 

Finally, there are things to criticize about the team, but I question if it needs to be basically everything. If everything becomes negative it ruins the credibility of valid critiques. Yes the past two yeats have been bad but it doesn't take a raging homer to see good things are being done and there is reason for optimism in the very near future.

[TheLeviathan]

I wanted Gibson up a month ago. That said, thos specific concern is vastly overrated in my opinion. It is good to get a taste of the bigs but a couple weeks worth of starts is not going to make a huge difference. He needed to get work and reps in and perhaps there is validity in working out the kinks in a lower pressure environment of AAA. Make sure he is as ready as he can be to stay permanently.

 

We don't know what the kinks will be yet. I have no problem with him working on holding runners or not tipping his pitches, but the jump from AAA to the big leagues requires adjustments. It'll be nice for Gibson to get a taste of that now, rather than waiting a whole year to get it. So I don't think that is overrated at all.

[TheLeviathan]

I usualy love the Gleeman and the Geek podcasts but when I heard them compairing Gibson with Diamond and Baker I lost alot of respect for them. Gibsons cieling is way higher than what both Baker and Diamonds was. Yea Gibson probably wont be an ace but hes got potential to be a solid 2, something Diamond couldnt even dream about and same with Baker.

 

For whatever reason, this fanbase just does not understand how good Scott Baker was. He was a very, very good pitcher when he was healthy. That is a perfectly fine comp IMO.

[Brock Beauchamp]

For whatever reason, this fanbase just does not understand how good Scott Baker was. He was a very, very good pitcher when he was healthy. That is a perfectly fine comp IMO.

 

The end result might be a good comp but the two pitchers couldn't be much different.

 

Also, I second the "Scott Baker never got enough credit" camp.

[drjim]

We don't know what the kinks will be yet. I have no problem with him working on holding runners or not tipping his pitches, but the jump from AAA to the big leagues requires adjustments. It'll be nice for Gibson to get a taste of that now, rather than waiting a whole year to get it. So I don't think that is overrated at all.

 

Do you mean "we" here as us the fans or as the Twins organization?

 

And who said anything about a year?

[jokin]

Do you mean "we" here as us the fans or as the Twins organization?

 

And who said anything about a year?

 

I thought you said you were going to respect the admins rules and avoid humorous and unnecessary and constant negativity and contention. This is what Puck was talking about with the two-way street. I don't want to speak for Levi, but he made perfectly reasonable suppositions, which you then chose to pick apart and jump all over instead of responding in a civil manner.

 

Post # 142:

 

I would probably respond a little more spirited and with more snark - but don't out of respect for the admins and their site. It is their money and time invested so the least I can do is respect their rules.

[Riverbrian]

You need to distinguish between making policy and enforcing it. Moderators don't make policy. We are given a say in policy but the final decisions are made by the admins. I have great respect for Brock and the other admins and all of our debates are friendly and respectful, and I know that my concerns were heard and given due consideration.

 

Now that there is a policy against excessive negativity, I will be enforcing such policy with the same zeal as I try to enforce every other policy.

 

I would also emphasize John's point about allowing more leeway for negativity when it is phrased politely and with respect for others -- I believe that if people take this to heart then members with negative thoughts will be able to make their points while preserving the tone that makes TD better than unmoderated sites.

 

After 2,700 plus posts... We all have a pretty good idea who Glunn is. He's a good soul and he has never uttered a harsh word about anyone and thats an amazing talent in my opinion.

 

Glunn understands that Negative/Positive on this site is akin to Republican/Democrat and the job of moderator is to help guide the content toward better balance and more importantly respect to all for a more inclusive environment.

 

This site is something special for us seamheads. You can't walk into the local coffee shop and start a discussion of baseball at this level... The other people drinking coffee just can't keep up. Baseball discussion at our level can leave us isolated to our every day acquaintances and I wouldn't know what to do with my baseball passion without a place to express it.

 

When your target is the advanced baseball fan like us. That alone cuts your available numbers to draw from... So... You can't afford to cull the herd further with heavy presentation from one side of the coin. I think everyone can understand that.

 

We spend a lot of time here and we should all have a vested interest in its growth.

 

The powers that be want Republicans and Democrats and I think that's smart. The only way to achieve that is balance... and... its leaning a little too heavy in one direction. That's all.

 

In my opinion... You don't have to abandon yourself... Respect your fellow posters... Always consider the possibility that you might be wrong (I am wrong alot) because when you do it's easier to respect the other side and pretty soon we are all mingling together in harmony and balance is achieved... followed by site metric growth.

 

Did I mention... I look forward to seeing Gibson pitch.

[boylan]

1. I think this thread should be closed. I just read 8 pages of posts - the vast majority of which were NOT about baseball.

 

2. I'd like a credit for 7 of those pages.

 

3. Scott Baker had a +ERA of about 130 in 2011 (and a WAR of +4 for WAR likers) so he's definitely a respectable pitcher and would have been great to have on the staff if he was healthy. If Gibson outs out a few years of comparable service we should be happy.

 

4. The innings limit is getting way too much play. The Twins have been loosey-goosey about this since spring training. Rob Anthony backed away from this further on 1500espn today.

 

5. Don't flip out if Gibson has a few crap outings.

 

6. Remember Eddie Bane.

[Riverbrian]

I thought you said you were going to respect the admins rules and avoid humorous and unnecessary and constant negativity and contention. This is what Puck was talking about with the two-way street. I don't want to speak for Levi, but he made perfectly reasonable suppositions, which you then chose to pick apart and jump all over instead of responding in a civil manner.

 

Post # 142:

 

Jokin...

 

Levi did make excellent points and Drjim asked for a clarification on if Levi meant... "We" The Fans don't know the kinks or "We" The front office don't know the kinks. That's an important distinction.

 

I think Levi will understand that and answer respectfully.

 

When that isn't understood... Things go off the rails.