Twins coaching staff and front office meeting today

[jay]

Is it just TR you are skeptical about being involved in profiteering? Because threatening to kill the club in order to get a 66% tax payer funded facility and then marking up stadium prices to match those that high revenue clubs charge while putting a product on the field equivilant to low revenue clubs seems like pretty strong evidence of profiteering to me. Ryan may not have been involved a majority of the process but he is certainly implicit in the last part.

 

I'm not in any way at all trying to defend the current payroll nor ticket prices. They both need work.

[nicksaviking]

Bowden thinks the Twins should deal Willingham and Burton to the Giants for an A ball pitcher and something else.....

 

Does it seem to anyone else that Bowden spitballs more unsubstantiated trade ideas than anyone else who has access to national media outlets?

 

I'm more than happy people are starting to talk about trades but Bowden never seems to have anything to play with but a few ideas the voices in his head whisper.

[stringer bell]

Something else to consider about moving Morneau: #7 is under contract for a long time. I'd rather a guy with his athleticism is not a DH when he isn't catching. I think Mauer should play as many as 60-70 games at first next season, especially if Pinto is up to being a major league catcher with a decent bat.

[Mike Sixel]

Agree with Stringer......Mauer catch for 60, 1B for 60, DH for 30 or so....Plouffe 1B for 100, DH for 50 or so.....assuming Sano is your 3B.*

 

*all numbers rough, this is not a definitive plan.....

[johnnydakota]

Since Gardy is basically managing for his job I doubt he will be thrilled with trading Willingham or Morneau, if that happens I think they need to let Gardy stick around next year (as long as they don't lose 100 games) he has done a pretty good job thus far with the turd roster he was handed. As of now this looks like a 75-78 win team, I think that earns him another year with a team that has a shot to compete in 2014

 

to date this year he has lost 11 games ...and thats good?

[IdahoPilgrim]

to date this year he has lost 11 games ...and thats good?

 

You'll have to explain this further - who lost 11 games, and how is that determined?

[ThePuck]

We've got Mauer for five more years. I imagine he'll continue to be our primary catcher for at least three of those five years, maybe even four or the whole five.

[cmathewson]

Is it just TR you are skeptical about being involved in profiteering? Because threatening to kill the club in order to get a 66% tax payer funded facility and then marking up stadium prices to match those that high revenue clubs charge while putting a product on the field equivilant to low revenue clubs seems like pretty strong evidence of profiteering to me. Ryan may not have been involved a majority of the process but he is certainly complicit in the last part.

 

I'm tired of this story. It happened when Old Man Potter ran the team. Since Jim has been primary owner, they have spent over 50% of revenue or more in all years except this one and last. It will be difficult to spend all the money they have coming to them next year and stay within the 50%. But I have no reason to believe they have a long-term strategy to spend less than that guideline.

[Shane Wahl]

By the way, they can trade Morneau and then sign him if they want to in the offseason.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm tired of this story. It happened when Old Man Potter ran the team. Since Jim has been primary owner, they have spent over 50% of revenue or more in all years except this one and last. It will be difficult to spend all the money they have coming to them next year and stay within the 50%. But I have no reason to believe they have a long-term strategy to spend less than that guideline.

 

So since they replaced their last GM over philosophical differences.....right? They spent money under one, then replaced him with another, and that second one did not spend money his first time around, and has not the second time around. I don't know how anyone can look at history and expect things to change in terms of spending.....

 

Look, this is all speculation on both sides, but the best predictor of how someone will behave in the future is to look at over a decade of their behavior and extrapolate from there......

[Joe A. Preusser]

If it was as simple as that, I count at least $40 million more ways they could have been more respectable.

 

The only thing this team does gibsonly is "be cheap".

 

Yeah, if only we had spent 239M, we too could have a 29-39 record. Of course, that would be 2.5 games worse than the Twins currently are, but hey, at least we would have spent the money. That is clearly the only thing that matters. Spend. Spend. Spend. To hell with fiscal responsibility.

 

Oh, and P.S. that "gibsonly" was cute for about 2 seconds. Now it's just tired and stupid.

[johnnydakota]

IMHO, Lavelle is overrated. I have read just about everything he's written over the last decade or so, and I recognize several patterns of lazy journalism:

 

1. Relying on a few "go-to" sources and thereby only getting one side of every story (e.g. Torii's view of Mauer)

2. Repeating the same story over and over when it originated from that self-same source (Mauer is lazy rather than hurt, a story he repeated for almost a year during which he never bothered to interview Mauer)

3. Using the anonymous "twins official" source when he can't get anyone to talk to him (in one case, that was an usher)

4. Doing nothing in the way of background research (e.g. the Mastroianni injury, which was a broken leg and anyone armed with WebMD could have found this out and asked the right questions of Twins management to get the right answers)

5. Favoring "scoops" over the truth

 

To you larger point, I'm surprised this is a story at all. These meetings happen all the time, especially after the draft and before the trade deadline. It's called running a baseball team.

 

With that sloopy laziness you would think he was twins management

[jokin]

Yeah, if only we had spent 239M, we too could have a 29-39 record. Of course, that would be 2.5 games worse than the Twins currently are, but hey, at least we would have spent the money. That is clearly the only thing that matters. Spend. Spend. Spend. To hell with fiscal responsibility.

 

Oh, and P.S. that "gibsonly" was cute for about 2 seconds. Now it's just tired and stupid.

 

Show me again, where is "fiscal responsibility" listed in the standings? The $40M the Twins didn't spend this year is not gong to be put back into the payroll next year or any other year, it goes to executive bonuses and the "excess earnings paid out" ledger.

 

You spend money to improve your situational prospects, improving your situational prospects affords you the chance to make even more money. These baseball clubs are actually baubles more than businesses. Two teams, the Rangers and Dodgers are currently in financial clover, despite being declared bankrupt, or on the brink of bankruptcy, in just the last 4 years. That's the MLB "business model." When the Twins made business agreements with local governing bodies, they were, in effect, making a pact and partnership with the greater community with their public agreement to make that bauble more shiny and keep it shiny--- not to make the owners of the business more money to the detriment of that bauble's potential shininess.

[Joe A. Preusser]

You'll have to explain this further - who lost 11 games, and how is that determined?

 

That means Johnny thinks the Twins would be 11 games ahead of their current position if only they would wise up and hire HIM as manager. It's just common sense.

[johnnydakota]

LOL. That's cute, but I'm actually quite good at math and have a good knowledge of the Twins payroll.

 

You don't know what the budget is. You don't know what the flexibility is. You don't know what the long-term plan is. I don't either, but don't paint me as some uneducated fool because you think you have the answers.

 

 

50/52% x 213 million ....source Jim Pohlad and Terry Ryan...

[IdahoPilgrim]

50/52% x 213 million ....source Jim Pohlad and Terry Ryan...

 

I'm familiar with the 50% part - where does the $213M number come from? Since the Twins are privately owned, I wasn't aware their books were public knowledge. Was this made public somewhere - other than Forbes which is basically a guess?

[jokin]

I'm familiar with the 50% part - where does the $213M number come from? Since the Twins are privately owned, I wasn't aware their books were public knowledge. Was this made public somewhere - other than Forbes which is basically a guess?

 

And a pretty renowned and educated guess, at that. Definitely inside the ballpark.

 

 

Of course, since the Twins themselves, are on record for stating that they would tend to follow that formula for their business model and used that as an assurance to the public to get TF up and operational, the onus is on the Twins to assure that this is, in fact, what they're doing.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Show me again, where is "fiscal responsibility" listed in the standings? The $40M the Twins didn't spend this year is not gong to be put back into the payroll next year or any other year, it goes to executive bonuses and the "excess earnings paid out" ledger.

 

You spend money to improve your situational prospects, improving your situational prospects affords you the chance to make even more money. These baseball clubs are actually baubles more than businesses. Two teams, the Rangers and Dodgers are currently in financial clover, despite being declared bankrupt, or on the brink of bankruptcy, in just the last 4 years. That's the MLB "business model." When the Twins made business agreements with local governing bodies, they were, in effect, making a pact and partnership with the greater community with their public agreement to make that bauble more shiny and keep it shiny--- not to make the owners of the business more money to the detriment of that bauble's potential shininess.

 

 

Call them what you want, baseball teams are businesses. The Dodgers have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you simply cannot indiscriminately throw money at a roster and expect to be great. The Yankees and Red Sox have both had similar seasons in recent memory. Fiscal responsibility will, in the long run, both make money for the owner and organization (priority #1 for any business) and put a better product on the field (priority #2 for this particular business). Does any sane person actually think the Twins don't want to win another championship? Of course not. But there are correct ways to go about running this type of business, and throwing away money on free agents (that have largely been terrible this year) last offseason is not conducive to that success. Write this down, because it's important. The Twins don't owe me, you, or anyone else anything. They will continue to try to be as good a team as they can and make as much money as they can. That is the nature of the baseball business. Any fan over the age of 14 or so should have a pretty good grasp on that, but based on the posts on this message board, that is apparently not the case.

[johnnydakota]

I just disagree. Willingham provides the opportunity to get something back and he is blocking Arcia, essentially. His contract is enticing for other teams and we are seeing his regression as we speak. Next year might not be pretty for him. Best to try to cut ties now.

 

Yup gimpy knee and his .210 average and being 37th among home run leaders...guess they will all line up offering there #1 prospect for that?

[greengoblinrulz]

Bowden thinks the Twins should deal Willingham and Burton to the Giants for an A ball pitcher and something else.....

Guys he brought up is 24 yr old AAA RP Heath Hembree--#3 prospect in 2012, #7 in 13 who throws 95 but PCL pitching stats are so misleading

Heath Hembree Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | MiLB.com Stats | The Official Site of Minor League Baseball

Clayton Blackburn, 20 yr old High A RHP #6 prospect who throws 87-89....want NO other soft tossing Blackburns in the organization

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=607185

[greengoblinrulz]

Other thing to remember about resigning Morneau is he becomes a 10 & 5 guy 4 days into the 2014 season if MN does resign him. Dont want any part of that.

 

Dealing Doumit or Willy should happen as they are both DHs who are shoved into the field by a manager who doesnt value OF defense. I like Doumit as a backup player but gardy thinks he a full time player. You see deficiencies when he plays everyday and/or plays too much vs LHP (Gardy again never looks at splits)

[ScottyB]

I think they should trade Doumit ASAP. That way we could get Butera up here pronto!

[Joe A. Preusser]

Guy he brought up is 24 yr old AAA RP Heath Hembree--#3 prospect in 2012, #7 in 13 who throws 95 but PCL pitching stats are so misleading

Heath Hembree Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | MiLB.com Stats | The Official Site of Minor League Baseball

Alot for 2 guys

 

Is it just me, or do his stats look terrible? 4+ ERA for a reliever on the season, and 10+ over the past 10 games? Not exactly confidence inspiring.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Yup gimpy knee and his .210 average and being 37th among home run leaders...guess they will all line up offering there #1 prospect for that?

 

I agree with Johnny on this one. Hard to envision Hammer putting up any worse numbers the rest of the year or next year. We get a C prospect with limited upside for him right now, which is basically nothing.

[jokin]

Is it just TR you are skeptical about being involved in profiteering? Because threatening to kill the club in order to get a 66% tax payer funded facility and then marking up stadium prices to match those that high revenue clubs charge while putting a product on the field equivilant to low revenue clubs seems like pretty strong evidence of profiteering to me. Ryan may not have been involved a majority of the process but he is certainly complicit in the last part.

 

Conspiracy Nut:s-instagib:

 

Stop it with all the fact-finding already, just trying to confuse those who want to be taken seriously.

[johnnydakota]

You'll have to explain this further - who lost 11 games, and how is that determined?

If you go to the mlb site you can read, his mismanagement of the pitching staff is the main culprit of his handling or responsibility of losing games, but he has made a few other mistakes , such as not bunt in certian situations....11 by count so far, now im not gonna say we win all 11 , but lets say we win 6 ? where would we be ....the fact Ron is doing better this year , just shows how incompetent he is

[johnnydakota]

We've got Mauer for five more years. I imagine he'll continue to be our primary catcher for at least three of those five years, maybe even four or the whole five.

 

Only way to justify and get full value of the contract....makes sense to me

[johnnydakota]

That means Johnny thinks the Twins would be 11 games ahead of their current position if only they would wise up and hire HIM as manager. It's just common sense.

 

It means if we had a real manager, Franconia, redmond,Sandberg , any one who isnt in love with 3 catchers and fawns over a minor leaquer with a .215 BA....aka Drew

[cmathewson]

So since they replaced their last GM over philosophical differences.....right? They spent money under one, then replaced him with another, and that second one did not spend money his first time around, and has not the second time around. I don't know how anyone can look at history and expect things to change in terms of spending.....

 

Look, this is all speculation on both sides, but the best predictor of how someone will behave in the future is to look at over a decade of their behavior and extrapolate from there......

 

Ryan spent the money from 2002 to the end of 2007. Smith spent the money in 2008-09 and went over the soft cap in 2010 and 2011. When Smith went over the cap (e.g., signing Hudson and Thome), he got explicit sign off from Jim to do it. Ryan took over and has been under the soft cap since. I don't think the philosophical difference was about spending money. You can count this as a trend or a short-term adjustment. i count it as the latter, and I believe there are good reasons for it, which I have hashed and rehashed ad nauseum.

 

If not about money, what was the philosophical difference. Well, to use TR's words "I will be very similar to Bill. I might be a little more patient, but otherwise, we will work in similar ways." Smith did things we would never see Ryan do: e.g. trade Ramos for Capps. Ryan focuses on the long term, and we have certainly seen that since he tool over. That's the philosophical difference.

[IdahoPilgrim]

If you go to the mlb site you can read, his mismanagement of the pitching staff is the main culprit of his handling or responsibility of losing games, but he has made a few other mistakes , such as not bunt in certian situations....11 by count so far, now im not gonna say we win all 11 , but lets say we win 6 ? where would we be ....the fact Ron is doing better this year , just shows how incompetent he is

 

I went to the MLB site, and I didn't see anything on the front page critiquing Gardenhire - could you post a link to what you are referring to?

 

And doesn't that last sentence basically contradict itself?