Twins coaching staff and front office meeting today

[cmathewson]

Not sure if you are using sarcasm....but I was referring to Paul Allen, which is who Parker was referring to with his Dubay crack.

 

Oh, OK. Well, then I agree. I kinda figured it wasn't Parker. But I wasn't sure.

[cmathewson]

The Twins have stated they use 50% of revenues for player payroll. We know financial commitments the team has. We can approximate arbitration costs. We know when contracts expire or need renewal. So yes, I do know quite a bit about how much payroll room there is. And I'm not some kind of wizard, this is information available to all people. The question is....will you ignore it like you do other evidence? Hide behind calling it "vague".

 

Feigning ignorance of information that there IS evidence and data for is a quick way to not be taken seriously.

 

Right, they're at about 35% of revenue now, according to Forbes. So they have perhaps 20 mil to spend right now if they wanted to. Take Morneau, Willingham, Pelfrey, Correia and Burton out of the payroll, and they'd be at like 20% of revenue. Anywho, payroll should not be a concern at all.

[jay]

The Twins have stated they use 50% of revenues for player payroll. We know financial commitments the team has. We can approximate arbitration costs. We know when contracts expire or need renewal. So yes, I do know quite a bit about how much payroll room there is. And I'm not some kind of wizard, this is information available to all people. The question is....will you ignore it like you do other evidence? Hide behind calling it "vague".

 

Feigning ignorance of information that there IS evidence and data for is a quick way to not be taken seriously.

 

None of your points support your argument. If the Twins steadfastly use 50% of revenues for payroll and had the payroll room you speak of, why didn't they spend the extra $18M/year to sign Sanchez? Or someone else for that matter? It would seem your math and infinitely superior knowledge was off somewhere.

 

For the record, I would have loved for them to sign him. My earlier post simply stated "without significant commitments for the future". Clearly, the FO views a 5 yr/80M contract as significant. Yes, the overall picture tells us Mauer is the only other commitment out there right now, but neither of us know what the longer term plan looks like.

[Shane Wahl]

I am blogging about trade possibilities right now and hope to have it done at some point today. This is good news. I would trade Morneau, Willingham, Doumit, and maybe Plouffe. Always the potential re-signing of Morneau after the season.

[Mike Sixel]

They also get $25MM in reveune next year, just for existing. No excuse for that not to be 100% spent on payroll......$25MM for free, no cost involved in getting it.

 

They didn't sign a player to real money because Terry Ryan is the GM and does not believe in big FA signings. That's pretty much the only conclusion you can draw from his time as GM.

 

*edit....or he's not allowed to....but since they brought him back because he is aligned to the owners plans (their words, around philosophy), I'd guess he agrees

[bird]

I have no idea, parker, what this org's plan is. It is clearly not "rebuild and play the young guys", it is clearly not "acquire good MLB players and compete", it is not "trade the older players while they have value (see Willingham)"....so I have no idea what might or might not come of this.

 

but, given their lack of what appears to be any consistent strategy, I hope something good does come from this.

 

Who killed your dog anyway? Wow.

[TheLeviathan]

None of your points support your argument. If the Twins steadfastly use 50% of revenues for payroll and had the payroll room you speak of, why didn't they spend the extra $18M/year to sign Sanchez? Or someone else for that matter? It would seem your math and infinitely superior knowledge was off somewhere.

 

Methinks you should ponder that question with consideration of who the owners are. It isn't for lack of revenue I assure you.

[glunn]

I am enjoying this robust debate, BUT some of the statements are bordering on being disrespectful. Please feel free to argue passionately, but respectfully.

[chopper0080]

I am blogging about trade possibilities right now and hope to have it done at some point today. This is good news. I would trade Morneau, Willingham, Doumit, and maybe Plouffe. Always the potential re-signing of Morneau after the season.

 

I don't see the benefit of trading Willingham for a middling prospect at this time. This roster is devoid of power and a middle of the order pressence. Counting on Arcia and Sano to jump in and provide this before they prove they are ready is just putting more and unneeded pressure on them.

[jay]

Methinks you should ponder that question with consideration of who the owners are. It isn't for lack of revenue I assure you.

 

That might very well be the case, but then we have to reassess our previous assumptions. I went into the off-season expecting a $100M+ payroll this year based off those exact same factors, as I'm sure you did as well.

 

When we didn't get anywhere near that, it tells me... hmmm, something must have been off in how I assumed we'd get there. Is greedy owners the answer? Maybe (perhaps even probably), but we also don't know the Twins' exact methodology to reach that 50% figure or what their revenue forecasts were for this year. If it is in fact the answer, then why are we blaming Terry Ryan anyway?

[Shane Wahl]

I don't see the benefit of trading Willingham for a middling prospect at this time. This roster is devoid of power and a middle of the order pressence. Counting on Arcia and Sano to jump in and provide this before they prove they are ready is just putting more and unneeded pressure on them.

 

I just disagree. Willingham provides the opportunity to get something back and he is blocking Arcia, essentially. His contract is enticing for other teams and we are seeing his regression as we speak. Next year might not be pretty for him. Best to try to cut ties now.

[Shane Wahl]

I don't see the benefit of trading Willingham for a middling prospect at this time. This roster is devoid of power and a middle of the order pressence. Counting on Arcia and Sano to jump in and provide this before they prove they are ready is just putting more and unneeded pressure on them.

 

Oops, sorry Chopper. I didn't see that you had a more detailed argument elsewhere. I will respond to it there then.

[jokin]

I don't know, what has Gardy done well this year? They are winning about what people thought they'd win, if I was the manager, you, or Gardy......

 

Are they running the bases well? Do they hit the right cutoff man? Are the starter left in/pulled at the right times?

 

I don't know the answer, but I'm not sure what he's done especially well or poorly at this point.

 

My biggest beef is his not playing Parmalee more often. They need more data on him, imo.

 

Wait a minute... I've been told repeatedly that it was axiomatic that a baseball manager makes virtually no difference in the W-L column...

 

And yet, the Twins' "plan" is to have a guy manage the team without a contract- or even a verbal long-term commitment to,

fighting for his professional life,

on a squad put together that from the onset, clearly was a punt for the 2013 season,

and is supposed to be in rebuilding phase, where wins are supposed to be secondary concerns,

and has their best pitcher, still untested at the major league level.

[nicksaviking]

exactly.....PA is a joke on baseball & his 'sources' are his best friend LaVelle.

Disregard anything he says

 

 

I assume people's dislike for PA has much to do with his homerish ways. Of course his homerish ways endears him to those he is being a homer too which likely gives him access others do not recieve. I tend to find PA's inside information genuine regardless of the sentimenality associated with it.

[greengoblinrulz]

Trading Justin ASAP for whatever they get is what they need to do & get Parmelee another 350ABs & make a decision on him. Id MUCH rather role with a Parmelee/Colabello platoon @ 1B & look to the future. Justin has been a great Twin but is not in the plans for future as they dont know Sano's position.

Quit playing 29 yr old washouts (Thomas, Deduno, Walters, etc) as a few nice games doesnt make you part of future. However, with gardy's situation...he doesnt have time to rebuild.

Bullpen wise...Swarzak, Pressley, Roenicke & Fien have all done fine BUT they are all the same pitcher & we could use a far more varied pen. Not now, but in a few weeks, Id love to see a hard thrower up here who isnt a middle man...namely Michael Tonkin.

Look to the future PLEASE

[TheLeviathan]

That might very well be the case, but then we have to reassess our previous assumptions. I went into the off-season expecting a $100M+ payroll this year based off those exact same factors, as I'm sure you did as well.

 

When we didn't get anywhere near that, it tells me... hmmm, something must have been off in how I assumed we'd get there. Is greedy owners the answer? Maybe (perhaps even probably), but we also don't know the Twins' exact methodology to reach that 50% figure or what their revenue forecasts were for this year. If it is in fact the answer, then why are we blaming Terry Ryan anyway?

 

Perhaps because RYan is complicit. Or because he effectively hides the scrooging.

 

IN any case there was plenty of cash to improve the respectability you claimed. I don't doubt the team wanted to be better and that includes Ryan, but they also appeared to have another motive. I won't presume to know, but I know what it probably was.

[jay]

Perhaps because RYan is complicit. Or because he effectively hides the scrooging.

 

So we've moved from personal attacks to conspiracy theories about TR supporting profiteering? And I'm the one who might not be taken seriously... rrriiight.

[bird]

Do we expect the Twins to have an official strategy announcement party?

 

I think I could summarize my personal views on what the current strategy seems to be as: "Field a team that is more respectable than the last two years while continuing to build the farm system."

 

This, and much much more.

[jokin]

That might very well be the case, but then we have to reassess our previous assumptions. I went into the off-season expecting a $100M+ payroll this year based off those exact same factors, as I'm sure you did as well.

 

When we didn't get anywhere near that, it tells me... hmmm, something must have been off in how I assumed we'd get there. Is greedy owners the answer? Maybe (perhaps even probably), but we also don't know the Twins' exact methodology to reach that 50% figure or what their revenue forecasts were for this year. If it is in fact the answer, then why are we blaming Terry Ryan anyway?

 

How could you possibly have reached that conclusion? The FO had made it "clear" if you read ALL of their quotes in their entirety through the verbal PR smokescreens- and- in their actions taken regarding personnel, starting in-season in 2011, that the payroll would be continually pared back in phases over the next few seasons.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree with greengoblinrulz......the time to look to the future is now. Although, I'd keep pitching Deduno and maybe, maybe Walters. It is Pelfrey that should go, imo.

[jokin]

This, and much much more.

 

Based on our discussions on our expectations in the offseason, it sounds like much, much more "disappointment" is headed your way then, Bird.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think it is a conspiracy theory to think that the Pohlads would prefer a GM that is in alignment with their goals. That's what owners and leaders of companies do, hire others that agree with their philosophy and that will carry it out. I think that's what they meant by philosophical disagreement with Smith, and then replacing him with Ryan. That's not some grand conspiracy theory, that's just how business runs.

 

*edited for typos and speeling issues....

[fairweather]

Hold on. Let us judge Gardenhire objectively. The team is playing great....well really good defense and Gardy doesn't seem to be playing favorites NEARLY as much. I would say this is one of if not Gardy's best season. All that being said I still cannot stand his bullpen management or the over-all philosophies he and his staff bring to the team. I would like to see change. Objectively speaking though he's doing a better job this season than he ever did previous IMO.

[TheLeviathan]

So we've moved from personal attacks to conspiracy theories about TR supporting profiteering? And I'm the one who might not be taken seriously... rrriiight.

 

Call it what you want. I know this much: it doesnt directly contradict facts like team revenues as yours does. My theory may be wrong, but we know certainly yours is wrong.

[chopper0080]

Trading Justin ASAP for whatever they get is what they need to do & get Parmelee another 350ABs & make a decision on him. Id MUCH rather role with a Parmelee/Colabello platoon @ 1B & look to the future. Justin has been a great Twin but is not in the plans for future as they dont know Sano's position.

Quit playing 29 yr old washouts (Thomas, Deduno, Walters, etc) as a few nice games doesnt make you part of future. However, with gardy's situation...he doesnt have time to rebuild.

Bullpen wise...Swarzak, Pressley, Roenicke & Fien have all done fine BUT they are all the same pitcher & we could use a far more varied pen. Not now, but in a few weeks, Id love to see a hard thrower up here who isnt a middle man...namely Michael Tonkin.

Look to the future PLEASE

 

I would add Doumit to the must trade now list as well though we all know Gardy is terrified of only having two catchers.

 

Opening up the DH spot for Willingham should be job #1 for this front office and should be done ASAP. Willingham at DH opens up an OF spot for Arcia and then the Twins could rotate Parmalee between 1B and the OF ensuring they get him consistent playing time.

[chopper0080]

I agree with greengoblinrulz......the time to look to the future is now. Although, I'd keep pitching Deduno and maybe, maybe Walters. It is Pelfrey that should go, imo.

 

trading Correia should also be a top priority. The Twins could probably get more for him than any other player on the block other than Perkins.

[Mike Sixel]

Bowden thinks the Twins should deal Willingham and Burton to the Giants for an A ball pitcher and something else.....

[nicksaviking]

So we've moved from personal attacks to conspiracy theories about TR supporting profiteering? And I'm the one who might not be taken seriously... rrriiight.

 

Is it just TR you are skeptical about being involved in profiteering? Because threatening to kill the club in order to get a 66% tax payer funded facility and then marking up stadium prices to match those that high revenue clubs charge while putting a product on the field equivilant to low revenue clubs seems like pretty strong evidence of profiteering to me. Ryan may not have been involved a majority of the process but he is certainly complicit in the last part.

[chopper0080]

Bowden thinks the Twins should deal Willingham and Burton to the Giants for an A ball pitcher and something else.....

 

Great, two bags of potato chips instead of one.

[jay]

How could you possibly have reached that conclusion? The FO had made it "clear" if you read ALL of their quotes in their entirety through the verbal PR smokescreens- and- in their actions taken regarding personnel, starting in-season in 2011, that the payroll would be continually pared back in phases over the next few seasons.

 

That was in response to Leviathan who was advocating spending $40M more ($120M total)... and you want to know where I got $100M from? Leviathan, I'll let you jump in here since...

 

it doesnt directly contradict facts like team revenues as yours does.

 

How am I on both sides of this argument? I think the Twins should have spent both too much and too little? What??

 

Let's clarify... I think the Twins should have signed a better SP than they did. Fact 1 - they didn't. I think the Twins payroll should be higher than it is, at least similar to last year. Fact 2- it isn't. Others claim to know how/why and while I presume there is in fact a reason behind it all, I don't go around claiming to know exactly how the business is run.