Kyle Gibson, Andrew Albers and consistency

[Aaron Cross]

I'd rather have Albers than Diamond. Seriously.

At the least, I'd like to see Albers & Diamond swapped so Diamond can go down and work on HIS inconsistencies. But he's Gardy's pet so he aint going anywhere.

[jay]

Gibson is on an innings count this season. That's why it matters.

 

I was all for letting Kyle get some AAA innings under his belt. I think it was a prudent decision.

 

But he doesn't need 100 AAA innings. That's just dumb.

 

We don't know what his inning limit is. If we are assuming that TR and crew don't plan to get him some MLB time before he reaches that limit, then either we can't see past our noses or there is truly zero faith in the FO.

[Seth Stohs]

That said, Albers is having a fantastic year as well. There is nothing wrong with Ryan acknowledging that. At this point he hasn't promoted Albers instead of Gibson or anything, he only replied to a question he may or may not have been prepared for. If another pitcher was needed who knows what would actually happen.

 

Lastly, whether Gibson pitchers 5, 50 or 150 innings for the Twins this year it changes nothing about next year. He is still going to open up the season with the Twins and , barring an injury or a Blackburnesque collapse, will have a spot in the rotation all season long. That will be his year to perform regardless of what he does or does not do this year. So while we might be itching for him to come up so we can "oooh" and "ahhhhh" at the pitching when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture this year means little for Gibson's career or the Twins future.

 

Well said on all points.

[Seth Stohs]

As the GM, Mr. Ryan needs to see what he has in Deduno, Walters and maybe to Albers. He knows what he has in Gibson, and he's a huge part of the future. There's no question about that.

[ThePuck]

As the GM, Mr. Ryan needs to see what he has in Deduno, Walters and maybe to Albers. He knows what he has in Gibson, and he's a huge part of the future. There's no question about that.

 

Until we see what Gibson does at the major league level, he's still a question mark. Slowey had great minor league numbers, but he didn't work out with us. I'm anxious to see what Gibson does with us, as anxious as most anyone, but it's not like he's shown himself to be so much different than the type of pitchers we've been producing over the years, has he? On top of that, he'll get to spend the early parts of his prime years adjusting to the major leagues instead of getting that done earlier in his career, which was unavoidable due to surgery...and not exactly a huge shock that it'd be needed...since he was an injury risk when we drafted him.

[Mike Sixel]

so we won't hear about how he needs more time to adjust to the majors next year, Seth? You really think getting MLB experience this year has no bearing on how he does next year? That's what that long quote said.

 

I also can't believe how many people are still willing to wait 2 or 3 more years for this team to be competitive.

[Brock Beauchamp]

We don't know what his inning limit is. If we are assuming that TR and crew don't plan to get him some MLB time before he reaches that limit, then either we can't see past our noses or there is truly zero faith in the FO.

 

The question is "how much time".

 

When it boils right down to it, there aren't any defensible reasons to keep Kyle in AAA. A month ago, you could make a valid argument about consistency but the guy has flat-out dominated in the past four weeks.

 

It's time to make the call.

[ThePuck]

I also can't believe how many people are still willing to wait 2 or 3 more years for this team to be competitive.

 

Or that some seem to think it's an automatic it'll happen in 2 or 3 years...automatic that all of our good prospects will succeed.

 

Teams should always try to improve. Signing a guy like Sanchez would have helped us now and in the future without hindering us one bit for the future.

[TheLeviathan]

We don't know what his inning limit is. If we are assuming that TR and crew don't plan to get him some MLB time before he reaches that limit, then either we can't see past our noses or there is truly zero faith in the FO.

 

Yes. We do.

 

Also, could someone tell me what the mystery we're solving with Walters is? I don't think we need to ""figure out what he is" - we already know what a journeyman, AAAA, depth starter looks like. God knows enough of em have pitched for us the last few years.

[cmathewson]

The innings limit is 130. He's at 85 innings, giving him about 7 starts, at his current pace. It is highly unlikely he gets any starts in the majors this year. Of course, it's less likely if Albers is ahead of him.

[howieramone1406390264]

so we won't hear about how he needs more time to adjust to the majors next year, Seth? You really think getting MLB experience this year has no bearing on how he does next year? That's what that long quote said.

I also can't believe how many people are still willing to wait 2 or 3 more years for this team to be competitive.

 

Are you suggesting we storm the Bastille?

[Mike Sixel]

Great line Howie.....nah, it is just entertainment, not freedom......

[Riverbrian]

Yes. We do.

 

Also, could someone tell me what the mystery we're solving with Walters is? I don't think we need to ""figure out what he is" - we already know what a journeyman, AAAA, depth starter looks like. God knows enough of em have pitched for us the last few years.

 

When it comes to Walters... I find myself thinking the same way. I never expected much out of him so I struggle to shake that expectation.

 

However... As an organization doesn't there have to be a reward system. If a guy throws 30 innings and his ERA is at 3.23. Don't you let him take the ball again as opposed to saying... Good job so far but you are going to suck tomorrow so we are cutting you loose.

 

I don't know... But I think I would give him the ball again.

[cmathewson]

When it comes to Walters... I find myself thinking the same way. I never expected much out of him so I struggle to shake that expectation.

 

However... As an organization doesn't there have to be a reward system. If a guy throws 30 innings and his ERA is at 3.23. Don't you let him take the ball again as opposed to saying... Good job so far but you are going to suck tomorrow so we are cutting you loose.

 

I don't know... But I think I would give him the ball again.

 

Walters has a plus pitch (the curve), two other average pitches (slider and FB), and decent command. I'm not surprised he's doing this well. His issues the last several years are all related to injuries.

[johnnydakota]

Lots of small sample discussion here. Hopefully the Twins aren't using stats in these size samples to make a decision. Evaluation of the coaches and staff at the games should carry much more weight. The whole season sample may be enough to look at strike out rate and ground ball/fly ball rate. It certainly isn't large enough to look at only a handful of starts. Any assessment of consistency can only be made by first hand observation.

 

If there is concern about Gibson's innings and stress, AAA innings will be less stress on the arm than major league innings. Any pitcher is going to face more difficult higher pitch count innings against a major league lineup. The innings and longer outings in AAA will help to rebuild arm strength. Every decision about Gibson has to made with the plan for him to get 30 starts in 2014. Clearly time in the majors will help him be successful next year, but he doesn't need to be up yet.

 

Why not , assistant Gm had drinks with Nishis agent , then Bill.Terry and Rob watched a tape then made an offer, so as you see , the brain thrust that is the Twins,always do there due dilangence

[John Bonnes]

Great line Howie.....nah, it is just entertainment, not freedom......

 

Mmmmm. Cake.

 

I'll ask..... How much of the concern over where Gibson spends his July is due to:

 

1) I think he could help the Twins right now

2) I think he could benefit next year from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

3) I think he could benefit long term from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

4) I just don't like the way this current administration does things

5) I just want to play with my shiny new toy

 

Personally, I'd go with

 

1 - 5%

2 - 30%

3 - 5%

4 - 10%

5 - 125%. (Of, I guess just 50%).

 

I'll add - I can't get too worked up about this. The only real tangibile benefit is maybe how he pitches next year. And it is likely easier to protect his arm (especially given the undue attention he is already given) by keeping him in Rochester.

[johnnydakota]

We don't know what his inning limit is. If we are assuming that TR and crew don't plan to get him some MLB time before he reaches that limit, then either we can't see past our noses or there is truly zero faith in the FO.

 

ZERO faith:s-ctf:

[Riverbrian]

Walters has a plus pitch (the curve), two other average pitches (slider and FB), and decent command. I'm not surprised he's doing this well. His issues the last several years are all related to injuries.

 

Quite possible... If you assume that players are working on things... You also have to assume that working on things can lead to solving things and then assume that they can get better.

[johnnydakota]

Mmmmm. Cake.

 

I'll ask..... How much of the concern over where Gibson spends his July is due to:

 

1) I think he could help the Twins right now

2) I think he could benefit next year from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

3) I think he could benefit long term from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

4) I just don't like the way this current administration does things

5) I just want to play with my shiny new toy

 

Personally, I'd go with

 

1 - 5%

2 - 30%

3 - 5%

4 - 10%

5 - 50%

 

 

All ove the above =)

[johnnydakota]

The question is, who are you having drinks with right now?

 

Geez aint we sitting in the same bar now?

[jay]

The question is "how much time".

 

When it boils right down to it, there aren't any defensible reasons to keep Kyle in AAA. A month ago, you could make a valid argument about consistency but the guy has flat-out dominated in the past four weeks.

 

It's time to make the call.

 

That's pretty fair and maybe it is time, but all the outrage, conspiracy theories, etc are a bit out of place (...then I remember we're on an internet forum). I'll be pretty concerned if he doesn't pitch for the Twins this year, but we're not there.

 

I get that no one is a fan of our rotation, but... Deduno and Walters haven't done anything (yet) to deserve being removed and Correia has been a surprise. They signed Pelfrey KNOWING he would need to work through coming back from TJ and he's gotten better every month (April - 7.66, May - 5.90, June - 4.05), so I can't picture them pulling the plug just yet. Diamond has struggled, but he's working back from injury and was far and away our best pitcher last year. Can't see them yanking him yet either.

 

Personally, I'm willing to sit tight for a few weeks. I'd like to see Gibson here no later than the trade deadline. All this talk on the innings limit is still vague and we don't know exactly what the plan is, regardless if some folks here want to claim that we do.

[nicksaviking]

Until we see what Gibson does at the major league level, he's still a question mark. Slowey had great minor league numbers, but he didn't work out with us.

 

Not to mention Slowey, Blackburn, Perkins, Garza and Liriano were all top 100 prospects. It is absolute folly to think Gibson is a given. If this front office is basing decisions on blind assumption we're in for a long rebuild.

 

Are you suggesting we storm the Bastille?

 

You seem to be annoyed by anyone who would suggest the front office should opperate differently. You might not like it here. I'm not sure what exactly you'd have us discuss, the team is losing and generally change is the remedy.

[jokin]

When it comes to Walters... I find myself thinking the same way. I never expected much out of him so I struggle to shake that expectation.

 

However... As an organization doesn't there have to be a reward system. If a guy throws 30 innings and his ERA is at 3.23. Don't you let him take the ball again as opposed to saying... Good job so far but you are going to suck tomorrow so we are cutting you loose.

 

I don't know... But I think I would give him the ball again.

 

Dylan Bundy, Manny Machado and Kevin Gausman got thrust into the major leagues. Machado's and Gausman's minor league numbers ranged from mediocre to crappy and Bundy was good, not great, and he was only 19, but they were "rewarded" because they were the best options in making their organization better for the long-term.

 

For all the ridiculous rationalizations I've seen written about this topic in this thread, it's a fairly safe bet that Kyle Gibson would be a solid contributor in the Orioles rotation right now, as in today. And at age 26, look around the league, he'd at least have been given the chance to be a contributor for at least half of the teams, contenders and non-contenders alike.

[twinsnorth49]

Mmmmm. Cake.

 

I'll ask..... How much of the concern over where Gibson spends his July is due to:

 

1) I think he could help the Twins right now

2) I think he could benefit next year from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

3) I think he could benefit long term from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

4) I just don't like the way this current administration does things

5) I just want to play with my shiny new toy

 

Personally, I'd go with

 

1 - 5%

2 - 30%

3 - 5%

4 - 10%

5 - 50%

 

I'll say,

 

1. 10%

2. 35%

3. 5%

4. 10%

5. 40%

 

We need a shiny new toy and they've already taken Arcia away from us once...killjoys.

[twinsnorth49]

Geez aint we sitting in the same bar now?

 

It's your round then.

[cmathewson]

That's pretty fair and maybe it is time, but all the outrage, conspiracy theories, etc are a bit out of place (...then I remember we're on an internet forum). I'll be pretty concerned if he doesn't pitch for the Twins this year, but we're not there.

 

I get that no one is a fan of our rotation, but... Deduno and Walters haven't done anything (yet) to deserve being removed and Correia has been a surprise. They signed Pelfrey KNOWING he would need to work through coming back from TJ and he's gotten better every month (April - 7.66, May - 5.90, June - 4.05), so I can't picture them pulling the plug just yet. Diamond has struggled, but he's working back from injury and was far and away our best pitcher last year. Can't see them yanking him yet either.

 

Personally, I'm willing to sit tight for a few weeks. I'd like to see Gibson here no later than the trade deadline. All this talk on the innings limit is still vague and we don't know exactly what the plan is, regardless if some folks here want to claim that we do.

 

Because he's been pitching so well, he'll be almost out of innings by the All-Star break.

[nicksaviking]

Mmmmm. Cake.

 

I'll ask..... How much of the concern over where Gibson spends his July is due to:

 

1) I think he could help the Twins right now

2) I think he could benefit next year from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

3) I think he could benefit long term from 40-50 innings in MLB this year

4) I just don't like the way this current administration does things

5) I just want to play with my shiny new toy

 

Personally, I'd go with

 

1 - 5%

2 - 30%

3 - 5%

4 - 10%

5 - 125%. (Of, I guess just 50%).

 

 

For me, 90% #2 but admittedly 10% 5. He should have gotten a cup of coffee in AAA then gotten the call up in May. Now he'll get his token couple starts at the MLB level this year, and every team will have the offseason to read the book on him and he'll have to adjust to the adjustments next year as opposed to doing so now.

 

Ideally this team would have let him take his lumps at the MLB level this year as opposed to when he's 26, an age when he should be entering the prime of his career. It almost seems like the Twins think he can take his lumps at Rochester and thus he automatically won't have any when he reaches the majors.

[nicksaviking]

Because he's been pitching so well, he'll be almost out of innings by the All-Star break.

 

??? He can't be pitching well, I've been told he's inconsistant!!!

[jokin]

 

 

 

Personally, I'm willing to sit tight for a few weeks. I'd like to see Gibson here no later than the trade deadline. All this talk on the innings limit is still vague and we don't know exactly what the plan is, regardless if some folks here want to claim that we do.

 

"Don't know exactly what the plan is?" Yes

"Vague?" Not so much

 

 

Earlier this offseason, GM Terry Ryan said he expects Gibson to be limited to 140 innings in 2013.

Source: ESPN 1500 Twin Cities

 

 

It was reported earlier this offseason that the Twins plan to limit Gibson to between 130-140 innings as he works his way back from Tommy John surgery, so the move would allow the 25-year-old right-hander to get to the big leagues as soon as possible. Twins GM Terry Ryan indicated that they may use Gibson similar to how the Braves used Kris Medlen last season, where he began the year in the bullpen, and then transitioned to the rotation after the all-star break.

 

 

Source: 1500 ESPN Twin Cities

 

"I think we'll probably ease it in as we go into April and May, then hopefully have him available for how we want to use him in June, July and August," GM Terry Ryan said. "We've got to monitor him closely."

Source: 1500 ESPN Twin Cities

 

Baseball America's Jim Shonerd says Kyle Gibson could be an option for the Twins if he continues to string together a few more dominant starts at Triple-A Rochester.

 

The Twins are usually on the conservative end of promotions, but Gibson would provide an immediate upgrade to a starting rotation that currently lacks any viable starters. In six Triple-A starts, Gibson has a 4.26 ERA with a 7.7 SO/9 and 1.29 WHIP. After missing most of 2012 due to Tommy John surgery, Gibson is expected to be on a 130-140 innings limit this season.

 

 

Source: Baseball America

May 4 - 8:39 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jay]

For me, 90% #2 but admittedly 10% 5. He should have gotten a cup of coffee in AAA then gotten the call up in May. Now he'll get his token couple starts at the MLB level this year, and every team will have the offseason to read the book on him and he'll have to adjust to the adjustments next year as opposed to doing so now.

 

Ideally this team would have let him take his lumps at the MLB level this year as opposed to when he's 26, an age when he should be entering the prime of his career. It almost seems like the Twins think he can take his lumps at Rochester and thus he automatically won't have any when he reaches the majors.

 

You can certainly speculate ALL of that, but I'm sure you can find zero statisitically significant evidence to support it. Your statements paint the picture that there is only one way Kyle Gibson could possibly be successful next year and that's simply not true.