Would a Six-Man Rotation Work for the Twins?

[bwille]

While watching the Twins this weekend, it was obvious that the pitching staff is in rough shape. The bullpen looked tired and overworked and the starting rotation looked ineffective, which resulted in the bullpen getting even more overworked. It was then that I started to wonder if a switch to a six-man rotation would be good for the Twins moving forward to help alleviate some of these problems. Couple this thought with the fact that Kyle Gibson is pitching well and it made for an intriguing topic to write an article on.

 

"Since the Twins have struggled to have their starters go deep into ballgames and their bullpen is becoming overworked, why not try out a six-man rotation to see if that improves the performance of the current starters, who now will get an extra day of rest, while also giving a pitcher like Kyle Gibson an opportunity to establish himself as a big-league starter?"

 

What do you think Twins Centric, would a six-man rotation work? If you agree with the idea of a six-man rotation, who would be your six starters? Mine would be Worley, Correia, Diamond, Gibson, Pelfrey and Deduno/De Vries whenever they are healthy.

 

Kyle Gibson: Minnesota Twins Should Consider Six-Man Rotation Soon

[old nurse]

So you would have one less bullpen pitcher and 6 starters that do not go deep into games? Every third day after their start they are the long man if a starter fails?

[70charger]

I dunno. I realize there's more than one way to skin a cat, but my thought is that you only go to a six-man rotation if you have six good pitchers. I'm not sure an extra day of rest is going to cure what ails us, which is likely purely a talent problem.

[ThePuck]

We don't even have 5 quality starters...be a shame to give the ball to a sixth option on a regular basis.

[Mike Sixel]

This is one reason to build a bullpen out of guys with options.....so as they get tired you can send them down and call up other guys for a few weeks. Use AAA as your bullpen depth.

 

I think the better answer is, send down Hernandez and call up Gibson. Put Worley/Pelfrey on short leashes, and call up whomever is next in line if one of them is not good in 3-4 more starts.

[jimbo92107]

The six man rotation might work if all the guys buy into possibly doing some relieving and /or spot starts. Sam Deduno's extreme movement would fit well with a long-relief role, especially in innings-eating blowout situations. Also, since Gibson's innings are strictly limited this season, you're going to need an extra arm. I also think Cole DeVries is a better pitcher right now than Hernandez, who should be in AAA learning to dominate.

 

Right now, Kevin Correia is the only starter that looks fit to go seven innings on a regular basis. Deduno and DeVries would add two more pitchers that might go seven, at least sometimes. The bullpen needs that.

 

One other advantage of a six-man rotation is that you could swap guys in the order to take advantage of teams they do well against. Was it Deduno that shut down the Rangers last year? You could pitch him a day early to make sure he faces a team like that.

[Guest USAFChief]

 

Right now, Kevin Correia is the only starter that looks fit to go seven innings on a regular basis. Deduno and DeVries would add two more pitchers that might go seven, at least sometimes. The bullpen needs that.

 

Devries averaged about 5.1 IP per start last year, I'm skeptical he's a guy who's going to regularly go through an opposing lineup 4 times and get through 7. Ditto for Deduno.

 

A six man rotation isn't going to help anything. It's just one more pitcher in the rotation prone to short starts, only now you're doing it with either one less reliever in the pen or one less position player.

[nicksaviking]

Devries averaged about 5.1 IP per start last year, I'm skeptical he's a guy who's going to regularly go through an opposing lineup 4 times and get through 7. Ditto for Deduno.

 

 

Yup, Gibson may profile to go deep into games with his control and moderate strikeout ability, but the other options all either give up too much contact or too many walks, both of which lead to too many baserunners which lead to early exits.

 

And of course the Twins will be extra cautious of Gibson considering the TJ surgery and the innings limit. Funny though, he did throw 117 pitches in his complete game. Shouldn't the team be more concerned with the actual pitches and less with the innings?

[snepp]

I think a 4-man rotation would make more sense than a 6-man if all you've got are a bunch of lousy starters making short starts.

[jay]

The one other advantage to a six-man rotation would be the additional opportunity to assess the long-term value/potential of our borderline options -- Walters, DeVries, Deduno, Hendriks, etc. A few more MLB starts out of that group would be welcomed to give the F.O. some evaluation time.

 

However, I have to agree with the current majority. We just don't have the talent to force a six-man rotation and we'd be left short somewhere else.

[snepp]

More musing/spitballing....a 6-man rotation makes sense (at least in theory) when you've got a bunch of good, but not great starters and want to get another one in. Like...

 

3 WAR Baker

3 WAR Liriano

3 WAR Pavano

2 WAR Slowey

2 WAR Blackburn

2 WAR Joe Schmoe

 

Maybe something like this allows you to push each individual starter a little deeper into each start, shifting some of those bullpen innings from a lesser reliever to that decent 6th starter. I don't see something like this working all that well though. While the idea of "more rest between starts = allow more pitches thrown = deeper into game" sounds good, in practice it likely falls apart in a hurry. A (too) strict adherence to pitch counts and the specialization of bullpens all but guarantees they would still get pulled early, often before they ever get tired.

 

I do think the 4-man would be a viable option for a team with a lousy rotation, maybe 4 + a spot starter to give the "ace" an extra day of rest occasionally. Say we've got....

 

3 WAR "ace"

1 WAR Eh

0.5 WAR Ugh

0 WAR Blech

-1 WAR *sigh*

 

Dump that last starter entirely, make him a mop-up/spot-starter and give those innings to someone else. Most of those other guys likely aren't good enough to throw more than 80-90 pitches per start anyway, they should be able to start a little more often given their lighter workload. If your "ace" goes out and throws a 110 pitch, 8-inning gem, then give your spot starter a game if you need to provide for a little extra rest.

 

 

Or just stick to the fixed 5-man rotation with no start skipping, we wouldn't want to create too much work for the manager.

[jokin]

More musing/spitballing....a 6-man rotation makes sense (at least in theory) when you've got a bunch of good, but not great starters and want to get another one in. Like...

 

3 WAR Baker

3 WAR Liriano

3 WAR Pavano

2 WAR Slowey

2 WAR Blackburn

2 WAR Joe Schmoe

 

Maybe something like this allows you to push each individual starter a little deeper into each start, shifting some of those bullpen innings from a lesser reliever to that decent 6th starter. I don't see something like this working all that well though. While the idea of "more rest between starts = allow more pitches thrown = deeper into game" sounds good, in practice it likely falls apart in a hurry. A (too) strict adherence to pitch counts and the specialization of bullpens all but guarantees they would still get pulled early, often before they ever get tired.

 

I do think the 4-man would be a viable option for a team with a lousy rotation, maybe 4 + a spot starter to give the "ace" an extra day of rest occasionally. Say we've got....

 

3 WAR "ace"

1 WAR Eh

0.5 WAR Ugh

0 WAR Blech

-1 WAR *sigh*

 

Dump that last starter entirely, make him a mop-up/spot-starter and give those innings to someone else. Most of those other guys likely aren't good enough to throw more than 80-90 pitches per start anyway, they should be able to start a little more often given their lighter workload. If your "ace" goes out and throws a 110 pitch, 8-inning gem, then give your spot starter a game if you need to provide for a little extra rest.

 

 

Or just stick to the fixed 5-man rotation with no start skipping, we wouldn't want to create too much work for the manager.

 

Is Schmoe an innings eater and do the Twins scouts say he's better than his numbers?

[COtwin]

They say Schmoe has a nice Cutter and keeps the ball down and in the park. The also say he's their kind of pitcher, PTC.

[Mike Sixel]

Or, go to the start by committee approach.....

 

Diamond

2-3 relievers for the first 6 innings, each no more than 1 time through the rotation

Correia

2-3 relievers for the first 6 innings

2-3 relievers for the first 6 innings

 

Replace Pelfrey, Worley and Hernandez with three guys that can go 2 innings every few days. Keep 3-4 relievers in AAA ready to come up every 3 weeks or so, and have a bunch more strikeouts. That works better if you have 3 good starters, and only need to do the reliever thing 2 times every 5 starts.......but some team will try this some day, and be very happy with the results (and the price).

[jokin]

Or, go to the start by committee approach.....

 

 

 

 

.......but some team will try this some day, and be very happy with the results (and the price).

 

With the high (soon to be prohibitive???) cost of quality Starting Pitching, it seems inevitable that schemes such as this will become more commonplace.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

They say Schmoe has a nice Cutter and keeps the ball down and in the park. The also say he's their kind of pitcher, PTC.

 

Pure skepticism as far as I'm concerned. Very few of us have seen Schmoe pitch much since his recent signing out of Cocomo.

[Rosterman]

Sadly, we don't need to evaluate borderline starters. With Meyer, Gibson and May in the wings, you can pretty much say that such pieces as Deduno, Walters, DeVries are just minor league placesetters. Hernandez could be a cog in the rotation. Worley and Correia are around another year. You still have Hermsen treading water. If your starters are going 5 innings average, then you should do a 4-man rotation and add that other long relief guy. The Twins are sitting pretty good with multi-inning relievres right now - Swarzak, Duensing head the corps, with Roeincke and Pressly not far behind. Fien can throw more than an inning. If DeVries shows some spark, I would almost swap him out for Fien in the longrun (depending on the absolute need to add Wood or Perez to the roster). Just for protection. I would onl;y do six-man if you ahd lots of young hard-throwing rookies on the mound, say you started the year with Meyer, May, Gibson, Hendriks and a vet. But you would also need that extra body in the bullpen and weaken the bench by one.

[jimbo92107]

Or, go to the start by committee approach.....

 

Diamond

2-3 relievers for the first 6 innings, each no more than 1 time through the rotation

Correia

2-3 relievers for the first 6 innings

2-3 relievers for the first 6 innings

 

Replace Pelfrey, Worley and Hernandez with three guys that can go 2 innings every few days. Keep 3-4 relievers in AAA ready to come up every 3 weeks or so, and have a bunch more strikeouts. That works better if you have 3 good starters, and only need to do the reliever thing 2 times every 5 starts.......but some team will try this some day, and be very happy with the results (and the price).

 

What I like here is that Mike is acknowledging that the Twins staff is not an ideal one. Rather than trying to make an ideal staff from less than ideal parts, why not figure out a way to use what you have in a creative way to win?

[Joe A. Preusser]

A 6 man rotation doesn't make sense. If you pitching staff needs help, you have to bite the bullet, drop a bench bat, and add a middle reliever to the pen. I am intrigued by the "starter by committee" idea, in fact I've thought about it several times myself. Imagine the nightmare the opposing catcher would have in their game prep.

[Nick Nelson]

Sadly, we don't need to evaluate borderline starters. With Meyer, Gibson and May in the wings, you can pretty much say that such pieces as Deduno, Walters, DeVries are just minor league placesetters. Hernandez could be a cog in the rotation.

That's the glass-half-full viewpoint, but in reality it's probable that at least one of Meyer/Gibson/Mays will not pan out in the majors. The Twins would be remiss if they don't use season as a proving ground for fringy guys who have shown a little something in the majors before. I'm not too high on the talent of Walters or De Vries but Deduno is intriguing to me -- he's so hard to hit that I can tolerate the wildness to an extent. I'd like to see him get an legit chance, but it could be that the Twins simply don't have the patience.