Article: Pressure is on for Twins starters

[Nick Nelson]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1700-Pressure-is-on-for-Twins-starters

[stringer bell]

I'd also add P.J. Walters, who is healthy and pitching very well for Rochester. Walters, like Deduno, is not on the 40-man roster. I think the pecking order for replacement is: 1) Hernandez 2) Pelfrey and then 3) Worley.

[Westgaard66]

I think that Worley might have a longer leash than you think...

 

 

he was the Twins big offseason acquisition. I think the FO will give him every Chance possible to be successful. The only two I really see on the ol' chopping block in Pedro and Pelf'

[Nick Nelson]

I think that Worley might have a longer leash than you think...

 

 

he was the Twins big offseason acquisition. I think the FO will give him every Chance possible to be successful. The only two I really see on the ol' chopping block in Pedro and Pelf'

 

There's probably some truth to that, but they can only justify keeping him in the rotation for so long when they've got viable replacements waiting. His numbers are unbelievably bad.

[jokin]

There's probably some truth to that, but they can only justify keeping him in the rotation for so long when they've got viable replacements waiting. His numbers are unbelievably bad.

 

Does Worley still have an option left? A trip to the minors seems entirely therapeutically necessary, if not imminent. His WHIP and BAA numbers are the worst for any starter over the last 2 years. These numbers are the worst in 2012 of any SP in all of baseball. And his current ERA is in the Blackburn/Hernandez range and only a little over one run better than Swarzak or Marquis (the worst Twins SPs in ERA, in the 8.00+ range) put up as starters in 2012.

 

The thing about Hernandez is the Twins still have a possible need for a lefty in the pen. I gotta think Worely will be gone soon, unless Pelfrey has a health setback first. It's good to have competition for the starting spots, even if it's trading mediocrity for another mediocrity, or for a rookie with something to prove.

[Seth Stohs]

Great article... I don't think that Pedro Hernandez's career is on the line though at all. Sure, his current starting rotation spot is, and should but, but he's left-handed and just recently turned 24. He'll be around for a long time.

 

Deduno will have to walk less, so I don't think he'll be up any time soon. Walters has been very solid the last 3-4 times out. Gibson has been good in 3 of his last 4 starts. Andrew Albers has probably been the Red Wings best starter. De Vries struggled on Friday night... I think there were 3 unearned runs to go with those two earned runs. I can see him getting one more rehab appearance and then if it goes OK, move him up. If not, just option him. Alex Meyer has struggled his last couple of outings. Hendriks hasn't been terribly good with the Red Wings, but he should still be considered a future big leaguer as he too is just 24.

[Nick Nelson]

Great article... I don't think that Pedro Hernandez's career is on the line though at all. Sure, his current starting rotation spot is, and should but, but he's left-handed and just recently turned 24. He'll be around for a long time.

True, and I actually think he has a nice future as a lefty specialist out of the bullpen, but he probably won't get another shot at starting any time soon after this. From that perspective, this is a crucial point in his career (I'm sure his preference is to remain a starter).

[Brodin4Calder]

Please send Worley and Hernandez down and let Gibson and someone else get a shot. I want to see Gibson and Meyer, both can throw hard and get Ks. The Twins dont have a starter that throws above 91mph, which is truly sad. They need to get the guys up there that can get Ks so the ball isnt in play every at bat. I know its a process but Gibson and others are very close to ready.

[Ibzakster]

We are the Twins, we play defense, we employ pitchers who don't walk people and keep the ball down (or try to). We do not generally employ fireballers. It's in the Twins Geneva Convention or something, accept and move on. It's been so for years. Also a pitcher who throws 91+ does not equate a good or successful pitcher.

 

As to the original topic I would enjoy seeing Hernandez and even Worley in the pen. Hopefully we have learned from previous Free Agent expectations and cut any ERAs over 7, 2 months into the season. Especially with promise (Gibson) and inexplicable results (Deduno/Devries) ready.

[Blackjack]

We are the Twins, we play defense, we employ pitchers who don't walk people and keep the ball down (or try to). We do not generally employ fireballers. It's in the Twins Geneva Convention or something, accept and move on. It's been so for years. Also a pitcher who throws 91+ does not equate a good or successful pitcher.

 

As to the original topic I would enjoy seeing Hernandez and even Worley in the pen. Hopefully we have learned from previous Free Agent expectations and cut any ERAs over 7, 2 months into the season. Especially with promise (Gibson) and inexplicable results (Deduno/Devries) ready.

 

Terry Ryan said on Sid's show that Worley DOES have an option left. Both him and Gardenhire emphasized that Worley needs to get the ball down. I would think after another bad start or two he'll be sent to AAA. They need him to work out the kinks by starting, not in the bullpen.

[ThePuck]

An update: Our rotation is now 27th with an ERA of 5.18

[Zephrin]

While it's nice to see a bit of pressure legitimately applied to the current crop of starters, we are still mostly talking about going from terrible ('cause how else can you characterize 5.04 era?) to mediocre for the most part. Think of this: How would Scott Diamond really match up as a Game 4 starter against other playoff teams?

 

Hernandez, Worley, DeVries, Pelfrey, Correia, Deduno - none of them will be in a legitimate playoff-contending rotation (except maybe as a #5 innings eater, and as you can infer above I might prefer to see Diamond pushed down to #5 in a truly competitive rotation).

 

Gibson should come up and get 10-12 starts to prepare for next year. If either May or Meyer earn a September call-up, great! The rest is just noise.

[Mike Sixel]

No reason for Gibson to waste his limited innings in the minors, not with Hernandez being bad at his job. It should start there, and now. Then they should see what Pelfry / Worley do.....but this starting staff is still quite bad. I guess the question is, is it more important for their "big acquisitions" to be up for ego reasons, or to bring up other options who might be better? I'd give those two another 4 or so starts, but at what point can you have a guy with a 7 ERA remain in the rotation?

[ThePuck]

It's strange the Twins gave Pedro Hernandez the option to go on the bereavement list. The bereavement list is only supposed to be for a serious illness or death in the immediate family unless I've misread it. A cousin isn't immediate family.

[jokin]

An update: Our rotation is now 27th with an ERA of 5.18

 

We're # 4:jump:! We're # 4:s-instagib:! (.........From the bottom, and Milwaukee and Toronto will soon pass us at this rate, thank goodness for the Astros:s-bluecap:)

[jun]

I'd also add P.J. Walters, who is healthy and pitching very well for Rochester. Walters, like Deduno, is not on the 40-man roster. I think the pecking order for replacement is: 1) Hernandez 2) Pelfrey and then 3) Worley.

 

NO the order should be 1) Worley 2) Pelfrey 3) Hernandez! Go easy on the rookie. Worley needs to be sent down immediately.

[jun]

Does Worley still have an option left? A trip to the minors seems entirely therapeutically necessary, if not imminent. His WHIP and BAA numbers are the worst for any starter over the last 2 years. These numbers are the worst in 2012 of any SP in all of baseball. And his current ERA is in the Blackburn/Hernandez range and only a little over one run better than Swarzak or Marquis (the worst Twins SPs in ERA, in the 8.00+ range) put up as starters in 2012.

 

The thing about Hernandez is the Twins still have a possible need for a lefty in the pen. I gotta think Worely will be gone soon, unless Pelfrey has a health setback first. It's good to have competition for the starting spots, even if it's trading mediocrity for another mediocrity, or for a rookie with something to prove.

 

Could you tell me what you meant by Hernandez range? How many starts has Hernandez had in the major? Go easy on the rookie. I think he is a good lefty who might have a chance to succeed in the ML if he could work hard and focus.

[jun]

We are the Twins, we play defense, we employ pitchers who don't walk people and keep the ball down (or try to). We do not generally employ fireballers. It's in the Twins Geneva Convention or something, accept and move on. It's been so for years. Also a pitcher who throws 91+ does not equate a good or successful pitcher.

 

As to the original topic I would enjoy seeing Hernandez and even Worley in the pen. Hopefully we have learned from previous Free Agent expectations and cut any ERAs over 7, 2 months into the season. Especially with promise (Gibson) and inexplicable results (Deduno/Devries) ready.

 

Worley won't succeed in the bullpen since he cannot get anyone out. Trust me, he could do better in AA.

[adjacent]

Summarizing; Worley: worse than expected. Pelfrey: considering he is on the way back from TJ surgery, as bad as expected, although improving. Expect a clunker from time to time, though. Diamond: more or less as expected. An ERA about 3 for him is unrealistic. Correia: better than expected. I hope it continues (but it is a hope and a lot of prayer, not a reasoned argument). As for Pedro, I'll say give him one or 2 more starts, while they see if Gibson is consistent. That will give some time to sort out whether it is him or Worley the one to be replaced.

Given the state of the bullpen, it will also gie time to sort out whether Gibson will replace a pitcher or a position player in the roster. I wouldn't be surprised if they add Hernandez as an extra bullpen arm when Gibson is added, at least temporarily.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Worley won't succeed in the bullpen since he cannot get anyone out. Trust me, he could do better in AA.

 

AA? Wha?

[joeboo_22]

The thing with Hernadez is he has to get more efficient, even when he is at his best he is a 5 inning guy. As a lefty with decent stuff, getting sent down to AAA could do him some good. As for Worley I think AAA will end up for him, but traditionally coming back from elbow surgery your command isn't 100%, he just needs to get the ball down, I think that will come, but yeah AAA is getting to be a realistic option. Pelfry, he hasn't been bad, I think he is a guy you just put out every 5 days and hope he has some trade value come July.

[jun]

The thing with Hernadez is he has to get more efficient, even when he is at his best he is a 5 inning guy. As a lefty with decent stuff, getting sent down to AAA could do him some good. As for Worley I think AAA will end up for him, but traditionally coming back from elbow surgery your command isn't 100%, he just needs to get the ball down, I think that will come, but yeah AAA is getting to be a realistic option. Pelfry, he hasn't been bad, I think he is a guy you just put out every 5 days and hope he has some trade value come July.

 

Pelfry, he hasn't been bad? An ERA over 6? How bad is considered bad?

[jun]

AA? Wha?

 

Yeah I am not so sure if he could succeed in AAA now.

[TKGuy]

An update: Our rotation is now 27th with an ERA of 5.18

 

Think where we'd be without Correia

[Riverbrian]

Terry Ryan said on Sid's show that Worley DOES have an option left. Both him and Gardenhire emphasized that Worley needs to get the ball down. I would think after another bad start or two he'll be sent to AAA. They need him to work out the kinks by starting, not in the bullpen.

 

I'm glad to hear TR and Gardy say this about Worley. I had great seats behind home plate for Worley's start on Saturday. I was watching him as close as I could.

 

He was completely unremarkable. His Two-seamer was coming in 88-89MPH and it was up and flat and he wasn't going to a breaking ball or anything off speed very often in the first couple of innings.

 

He was a little more effective when he started mixing things up and he was spotting his two seamer down and getting a little drop on it but all in all... Keeping it down seemed to be a chore.

 

Its a complicated thing. How long do you let the starters work through things on a major league mound? I don't know the answer and I hope that Gardy, Andy and TR have a good idea on what to do. We cant keep trotting out pitchers who are plus 5 ERA's...

 

If I had to make the decision. Hernandez is first on the list. I would give him tonight and tonight only to earn another start. If he gets roughed up tonight... Call the traveling secretary the very second Gardy takes the ball from his hand and send him on his way to Rochester. We are all dying to see Gibson but you replace Pedro with the guy who is looking like he can get outs at MLB level right now. If that's Gibson... OK... But this isn't the time to bring up the future to gain experience. Bring up the guy who will be best at getting guys out.

 

Worley and Pelfrey... I have no idea how much rope to give them. If they don't show something soon... Maybe Gibson or Deduno will just end up showing something instead and force the decision.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Pelfrey's sinker was fantastic last start, so much that he was using it exclusively against a few batters. He'll need to continue from last time to establish some ground in the rotation. Worley has been the worst starter for sure.

[jokin]

 

 

1) Its a complicated thing. How long do you let the starters work through things on a major league mound? I don't know the answer and I hope that Gardy, Andy and TR have a good idea on what to do. We cant keep trotting out pitchers who are plus 5 ERA's...

2) If I had to make the decision. Hernandez is first on the list. I would give him tonight and tonight only to earn another start. If he gets roughed up tonight...

 

1) Who says you can't keep trotting out plus 5+ ERA starters? Did you forget about 2011 and 2012?

 

2) Oh ye of little faith, RB! I think you neglected to take into account the "team that traded you effect." Look for Pedro to put in a decent performance tonight!

[cmathewson]

Does Worley have options?

[ThePuck]

Does Worley have options?

 

As Blackjack said earlier on this thread: 'Terry Ryan said on Sid's show that Worley DOES have an option left. '

[Brodin4Calder]

Anyone else excited for when our roto is Meyer, Gibson, Diamond, Berrios and May? Oh and possibly Manaea or Stewart. Our lineup right now is all guys that have a hard time throwing above 90mph and cant get Ks which lead to the ball being in play every at bat. Our lineup 2-3 years from now will have a few guys that throw hard in the mid 90s and can get Ks. We will finaly be able to look forward to watching our pitchers every game, im pretty bored of watching Worley try to throw 90mph.