How Long Will Joe Mauer Wait for Cooperstown Plaque?

[Fire Dan Gladden]

40 minutes ago, LanceJS said:

I agree with this for all the reasons mentioned. How Harmon had to wait 4 years still boggles my mind. Oliva shouldn’t have had to wait until his 80s. Blyleven didn’t rack up the traditional stats save for strikeouts and it was at the dawn of the sabermetrics era that got him in.

Something else that bugged me was Johan Santana not earning 5% on his one year. For a five year peak (2003-2007) there wasn’t a better starting pitcher in the game, he won two Cy Young’s and a pitcher’s triple crown, Sandy Koufax was dominant in a 5 year period and he’s a no doubter but Santana isn’t worthy of 5%?  And NO, I am not saying Santana was Koufax - just that if a five year period of greatness is enough for one, why not all?  Plus…I am sure if his peak years were with the Mets and his injury-plagued ones were with the Twins, he’s either in or very close.  

Santana's 5 year stretch is up there with any 5year stretch by a pitcher in modern history.  Unfortunately his counting numbers were not strong.  Granted Drysdale pitched in the 4 man rotation era, but his counting numbers were considerably higher than Santana.

Santana needed to pitch another 5 healthy successful years to get a good look.  I love him, but he will ultimately end up in the Hall of Very-Good.

[DJL44]

5 hours ago, jharaldson said:

In my mind his comps at 1B are Will Clark and John Olerud.  Both are LH, low-powered guys with WARs better than Mauer's.  And both are not in the Hall of Fame.  When you look at Mauer as a true "tweener" instead of a classic catcher I don't think he makes it.  

JT Snow or Eric Hosmer are good comps for Mauer at 1B. Mauer is 0.5 wins above average in the time he spent as a regular at 1B. That doesn't really contribute much to his Hall of Fame case.

Will Clark could hit the crap out of the ball. Twice as many HR as Mauer.

It helps Mauer that he looks better than Posey and Molina. JT Realmuto is the only active catcher who looks like he has a chance at the Hall of Fame and he needs a few years to catch up to Mauer. Adley Rutschman had a nice debut but it's one season.

If the Hall of Fame doesn't elect Mauer they might just stop electing catchers. That would make for a less interesting museum.

[DJL44]

57 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Santana needed to pitch another 5 healthy successful years to get a good look.  I love him, but he will ultimately end up in the Hall of Very-Good.

Yet somehow Billy Wagner, who wasn't half the pitcher of Santana, is on the cusp of election. Seriously, Santana has 7 seasons better than any of Wagner's.

[Elliot]

An interesting comparison is Kirby Puckett as a first ballot HOF’er. I am a huge fan and believe that Puck is the Twins best player ever and overall face of the franchise. Entire career with the Twins, 2, world championships, and many awards; but 2,300 hits, 200 home runs, and a .318 average are hardly the stats of a first ballot electee. The fact that he was so elected indicates an acknowledgement of the impact of an injury shortened career.  I think if it is possible to look at Mauer’s career thru 2013 (essentially his catching career) using the same lens used regarding Puck’s shortened career, we would end up looking at Mauer differently.  It is unfortunate, but the final handful of years did not help his case at all. He was really just a shell of the player he once was (.270 avg and a half dozen home runs per year) as a 1B/DH. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Yet somehow Billy Wagner, who wasn't half the pitcher of Santana, is on the cusp of election. Seriously, Santana has 7 seasons better than any of Wagner's.

Yeah... Don't get me started on relievers and Cooperstown.  Compare Joe Nathan and Billy Wagner. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Just now, Elliot said:

An interesting comparison is Kirby Puckett as a first ballot HOF’er. I am a huge fan and believe that Puck is the Twins best player ever and overall face of the franchise. Entire career with the Twins, 2, world championships, and many awards; but 2,300 hits, 200 home runs, and a .318 average are hardly the stats of a first ballot electee. The fact that he was so elected indicates an acknowledgement of the impact of an injury shortened career.  I think if it is possible to look at Mauer’s career thru 2013 (essentially his catching career) using the same lens used regarding Puck’s shortened career, we would end up looking at Mauer differently.  It is unfortunate, but the final handful of years did not help his case at all. He was really just a shell of the player he once was (.270 avg and a half dozen home runs per year) as a 1B/DH. 

Puckett was elected because everybody loved him (off field issues aside).  BBWAA will vote for guys they like and not vote for guys they don't like (Curt Schilling anyone).  Many do not use any common sense.  Why else would Bronson Arroyo get a vote?  They are petty that way. 

[bap3141]

3 hours ago, Ryan Atkins said:

If we're going start putting guys like Scott Rolen (a fine player) in the Hall of Fame, then no one should question Joe Mauer getting in. And he should be in on the 1st ballot. Either you're a HOFer or you're not.

For that matter, Torii Hunter should be in, or at least should be better than 7% vote. Hunter has more hits, more homers, more RBI, more gold gloves, and more silver sluggers than Scott Rolen. The difference, one World Series Championship, is that the benchmark now? If so, Mauer is in trouble. 

Once the BBWAA enshrined Harold Baines, I lost interest. It's all far too subjective.  

For our local guy, how in the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is Johan Santana one-and-done on the ballot, yet Mark Freaking Buehrle is not? Or Cliff Lee. (And I'm not even suggesting those guys should be in.)

It's just such a joke. And these writers have their heads up their rears. Might as well start calling it the Hall of WAR.

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If the Hall of Fame doesn't elect Mauer they might just stop electing catchers. That would make for a less interesting museum.

This is looking true. Look around at the catchers in baseball today. There are some excellent catchers in the game today, but only Realmuto comes even close to matching Mauer. The Hall of Fame voters have to define the differences in their own minds between catching and any other position in the field. Many people have played baseball and some at a high level but unless one has caught a hundred plus games as an adult, it is difficult to explain the measure of physical hardship catching entails. If someone like Joe Mauer cannot be voted into the Hall on the first ballot, then the conversation on how to measure catchers needs to be concluded. Adrian Beltre was a terrific player and I believe a sure Hall of Fame player who should get in next year. One cannot compare on any level a catcher and any other position player.

[DJL44]

6 hours ago, bap3141 said:

Once the BBWAA enshrined Harold Baines, I lost interest. It's all far too subjective.  

For our local guy, how in the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is Johan Santana one-and-done on the ballot, yet Mark Freaking Buehrle is not? Or Cliff Lee. (And I'm not even suggesting those guys should be in.)

It's just such a joke. And these writers have their heads up their rears. Might as well start calling it the Hall of WAR.

To be fair, the writers didn't elect Baines, that was the Era Committee - mostly former players and executives.

[bap3141]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

To be fair, the writers didn't elect Baines, that was the Era Committee - mostly former players and executives.

To be fair, it doesn't matter.