Derek Falvey's tenure with the Twins

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Maybe, but Mr. St. Peter has zero to do with players. He is nearly immune from dismissal as long as he keeps the money flowing.

They likely don't need to sell one ticket to make money. 

[tony&rodney]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

They likely don't need to sell one ticket to make money. 

The next media deal might consider a range of numbers.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, tony&rodney said:

The next media deal might consider a range of numbers.

I don't think that matters much either. 

[lecroy24fan]

15 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Maybe, but Mr. St. Peter has zero to do with players. He is nearly immune from dismissal as long as he keeps the money flowing.

My point was he insulted the fan base.

[tony&rodney]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I don't think that matters much either. 

It is pretty certain that we all guess what the limits of spending are for a team like the Twins. Some posters on Twins Daily have postulated that examinations of data can narrow the numbers down quite accurately. I don't know about that. I doubt San Diego is losing money and their market resembles the Twin Cities, yet the Padres have gone much higher in short term spending. If attendance and media deals are not that important what is holding back the Twins in regards to their budget? While I'm not exactly  thinking the Twins need to spend much more it does make sense to push in a key player or two once in a blue moon that gives the prospects and lesser players an opportunity to develop. The Minnesota Twins are a confounding organization.

[tony&rodney]

1 minute ago, lecroy24fan said:

My point was he insulted the fan base.

He will fade back  into anonymity and most people had no idea who he was anyhow. 

[dxpavelka]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:04 PM, AceWrigley said:

Wow, I actually find that detail stunning.

And yet the vast majority of folks posting on TD are insistent that the Twins need to throw out those deals.

[dxpavelka]

21 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How about the next tier down.... Not the Happ level, the level l above that .... Also, if WS is your only success measure, we have a different measure. 

And I'm ok with that.

[dxpavelka]

11 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Is this a bit misleading? I mean players with huge contracts have won the World Series. and the 20 largest is a moving target right? Signing players to huge contracts doesn't guarantee you anything, but have great players on your team sure does help.

I could say something like every World Series winner since 2017 has had at least one player making over 20 million and at least one making over 15.

 

 

You could say  that.  Wouldn't make what I said any less true.  I'd also point out the Twins had a guy making $35 Million in 2022 and one making $23 Million every year from 2011-2018.  Remember all those parades?

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

19 hours ago, SanoMustGo said:

Not wishing for bad things, but expecting them based on roster decisions

I've read enough comments from others to know the sentiment exists.

[TwinsDr2021]

8 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

You could say  that.  Wouldn't make what I said any less true.  I'd also point out the Twins had a guy making $35 Million in 2022 and one making $23 Million every year from 2011-2018.  Remember all those parades?

 

 

 

I don't because the Twins never had the second piece. j/k

 

[dxpavelka]

15 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I don't because the Twins never had the second piece. j/k

 

If this game were merely about having two pieces it'd be easy.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

If this game were merely about having two pieces it'd be easy.

And yet the Twins have never spent for a second piece, Maybe things are different if they sign a Gausman/Ray or Rodon to go with Correa.  Or maybe they signed Marte, Schwarber and one of the pitchers.

My point was that teams that win have high price players, maybe not the highest priced players but really good guys that are consistent and healthy cost big bucks. If you aren't gong to play in that end of the pool you have to develop those players and as of now this FO hasn't show that ability, we as fans are still hoping some of the old FO players save the day.

 

[jun]

On 12/18/2022 at 10:26 AM, DJL44 said:

Raid the Cardinals front office.

Or the Brewers front office.

[laloesch]

My vote is fired.  I think it's almost a foregone conclusion and not because of the Correa signing either. These two (Falvey and Levine) were supposed to be big player development guys and they haven't done squat yet.  Where are the big league starters?  Where are the position players?  I want results and so does everyone else.  Every year it's always blamed on injuries, last year it was injuries and covid, this year it's injuries again.  No more excuses, get it done or your fired.

[Winston Smith]

On 12/18/2022 at 10:57 AM, Riverbrian said:

 

Through the years it does seem that GM's and POBO's are very loyal to their teams. There have been a few that have been lured to another organization for more money and car wash coupons but not many. Typically, it is someone in the 2nd chair changing teams for a 1st chair. 

Twins ownership does seem to exhibit stability, loyalty or patience because the people at the top have gotten nice long runs in comparison to other teams who adjust more often.

These two things lead me to guess that we should settle in for the long haul and support our front office instead for wishing horrible things to force a change. 

I'm at the age now that the long haul may not be that far down the road. Using a phrase from other media "before I die" seems like a pipe dream at this point for any Minn sports teams.

"Before I die" doesn't mean winning a championship for the Twins, at this point it's winning a playoff game.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, laloesch said:

My vote is fired.  I think it's almost a foregone conclusion and not because of the Correa signing either. These two (Falvey and Levine) were supposed to be big player development guys and they haven't done squat yet.  

Arraez, Miranda, Ober, Duran, Jax. Success.

Varland, Jeffers, SWR. Likely success.

Lewis, AK, Larnach, Wallner. Injured, if healthy likely between good and all-star.

They also dealt for Ryan. And one of their top prospects for Gray .

They have Lee, Martin, Julien, and about eight pitchers that might be good RPs in AA or AAA..

No one drafted in the last two years is in the majors on any team. How is that list in the majors for four plus years, given the farm they inherited?

I don't love all their decisions, bit some of the posts here completely ignore reality, IMO.

 

 

[laloesch]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Arraez, Miranda, Ober, Duran, Jax. Success.

Varland, Jeffers, SWR. Likely success.

Lewis, AK, Larnach, Wallner. Injured, if healthy likely between good and all-star.

They also dealt for Ryan. And one of their top prospects for Gray .

They have Lee, Martin, Julien, and about eight pitchers that might be good RPs in AA or AAA..

No one drafted in the last two years is in the majors on any team. How is that list in the majors for four plus years, given the farm they inherited?

I don't love all their decisions, bit some of the posts here completely ignore reality, IMO.

 

 

The key word is "MIGHT."  I'm tired of the "MIGHT."  And i don't count trades.  They didn't do the dirty work, they just grabbed it from someone else.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, laloesch said:

The key word is "MIGHT."  I'm tired of the "MIGHT."  And i don't count trades.  They didn't do the dirty work, they just grabbed it from someone else.

You don't give them credit for getting Ryan? That's part of building a team. 

You completely ignored that first line, right?

[laloesch]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

You don't give them credit for getting Ryan? That's part of building a team. 

You completely ignored that first line, right?

With all due respect if you believe Arraez, Miranda, Ober, Duran, Jax is a great accomplishment along with everything else going on with this team as a whole, I don’t agree.

I mean if you are happy with this team (and it appears you are based on your replies to me) and everything else the front office has done, the perennial "awww shucks" attitude and "oh well maybe next year," culture, than to each their own i guess.   

Nothing personal but that's not good enough to me.  I want results not excuses.  I want the team to win in the playoffs and not settle for just making it, which wasn't a problem last year.  All i hear is excuses and oh well maybe next year.  That's unacceptable. 

And yes i will give you first line credit.  They didn't draft Duran or Jax, and both Arraez and Ober were drafted before Falvey took over.  drops mic

Edited December 19, 2022 by Squirrel
No name calling, be respectful

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Winston Smith said:

I'm at the age now that the long haul may not be that far down the road. Using a phrase from other media "before I die" seems like a pipe dream at this point for any Minn sports teams.

"Before I die" doesn't mean winning a championship for the Twins, at this point it's winning a playoff game.

Or you could hope to finally see New Hampshire. 

[Mike Sixel]

20 hours ago, laloesch said:

With all due respect if you believe Arraez, Miranda, Ober, Duran, Jax is a great accomplishment along with everything else going on with this team as a whole, I don’t agree. 

I mean if you are happy with this team (and it appears you are based on your replies to me) and everything else the front office has done, the perennial "awww shucks" attitude and "oh well maybe next year," culture, than to each their own i guess.   

Nothing personal but that's not good enough to me.  I want results not excuses.  I want the team to win in the playoffs and not settle for just making it, which wasn't a problem last year.  All i hear is excuses and oh well maybe next year.  That's unacceptable. 

And yes i will give you first line credit.  They didn't draft Duran or Jax, and both Arraez and Ober were drafted before Falvey took over.  drops mic

You said they developed zero prospects.....I pointed out some they've developed. I didn't say I loved their work as a whole at all. I even said I didn't. 

[nicksaviking]

I would like to evaluate him without Thad Lavine.

Obviously the only way to do that is to replace Thad Lavine, who as the GM, I have to assume is mostly concerned with roster assembly. While I assume Falvey is the architect of the overall system.

But since they don't really tell us job specifics, I'd like to start with the removal of one to see what changes. 

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, jun said:

Or the Brewers front office.

I assume because they are developing unheralded pitchers seemingly from nowhere?

In that regard, Milwaukee looks pretty identical to Cleveland prior to hiring Falvey. 

[Winston Smith]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Or you could hope to finally see New Hampshire. 

I've seen the Corn Palace so my life is complete.

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

I've seen the Corn Palace so my life is complete.

Do me a favor and hang around awhile anyway. 

[Squirrel]

6 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

I've seen the Corn Palace so my life is complete.

I’ve played the Corn Palace so my life is doubly complete

[gunnarthor]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Arraez, Miranda, Ober, Duran, Jax. Success.

Varland, Jeffers, SWR. Likely success.

Lewis, AK, Larnach, Wallner. Injured, if healthy likely between good and all-star.

They also dealt for Ryan. And one of their top prospects for Gray .

They have Lee, Martin, Julien, and about eight pitchers that might be good RPs in AA or AAA..

No one drafted in the last two years is in the majors on any team. How is that list in the majors for four plus years, given the farm they inherited?

I don't love all their decisions, bit some of the posts here completely ignore reality, IMO.

 

 

Again, they inherited a pretty solid system. They had more top 100 prospects then then now. I'm not sure how much "success" you should give guys like Miranda, Ober, and Jax (who were all acquired before they got here). Yeah, they are MLers but we have yet to see if they are fringe players, bench players, reliable starters, or better. That said, I like Miranda a lot. Arraez (also acquired before they got here) is a success.

I have no idea why you think SWR or Varland are likely successes. I think things like this are way you and I just differ. Jeffers has been a bad MLer. Yeah, they get credit for trading for Ryan but they didn't develop him. And trading away Petty for Gray might come back to haunt us since we apparently have concerns about pitchers topping 80 innings now. But I'm sure Petty's grateful to be out of here. Also, they have Martin and SWR because they failed to keep our window of opportunity open. Yeah, great, you added young players whose stock continued to fall b/c you couldn't keep the Twins competitive. Not really ready to give them a lot of credit for that. And not sure why you think Larnich or Wallner. They are already 26 and 25 years old. They have yet to show they can handle ML pitching, let alone be good ML players. 

Right now, most of this FO's trades have been bad. Most of their drafts have been bad. They've failed to augment the nucleus they had. They failed to create a pitching pipeline despite now having more time to do so that Ryan was allowed. Maybe they'll get better. Who knows. I loved the Lee pick. I think Julien is another fun surprise for us. But I don't see any hope in the pitching department. I don't see a well assembled team. It's a mashup of players who don't quite feel right together. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

Again, they inherited a pretty solid system. They had more top 100 prospects then then now. I'm not sure how much "success" you should give guys like Miranda, Ober, and Jax (who were all acquired before they got here). Yeah, they are MLers but we have yet to see if they are fringe players, bench players, reliable starters, or better. That said, I like Miranda a lot. Arraez (also acquired before they got here) is a success.

I have no idea why you think SWR or Varland are likely successes. I think things like this are way you and I just differ. Jeffers has been a bad MLer. Yeah, they get credit for trading for Ryan but they didn't develop him. And trading away Petty for Gray might come back to haunt us since we apparently have concerns about pitchers topping 80 innings now. But I'm sure Petty's grateful to be out of here. Also, they have Martin and SWR because they failed to keep our window of opportunity open. Yeah, great, you added young players whose stock continued to fall b/c you couldn't keep the Twins competitive. Not really ready to give them a lot of credit for that. And not sure why you think Larnich or Wallner. They are already 26 and 25 years old. They have yet to show they can handle ML pitching, let alone be good ML players. 

Right now, most of this FO's trades have been bad. Most of their drafts have been bad. They've failed to augment the nucleus they had. They failed to create a pitching pipeline despite now having more time to do so that Ryan was allowed. Maybe they'll get better. Who knows. I loved the Lee pick. I think Julien is another fun surprise for us. But I don't see any hope in the pitching department. I don't see a well assembled team. It's a mashup of players who don't quite feel right together. 

So if the team plays badly, and they make trades, they are ripped for not keeping a mid-market team in contention every year, but we can't say "great trade?" TR never made those trades, he just kept the players. Tough crowd.

Some people say they get no credit for trading for Ryan because they didn't develop him. Now they don't get credit for developing any of the previous FO players either. Tough crowd. 

The last two years are a wash, no one is up in the majors from that time frame. They've had, then, 4 drafts. How many hits and misses do you want? They traded one of those picks for Gray, no credit, I assume? 

Miranda has one year, so, no credit, because he hasn't proved it yet? That really only gives them 3 drafts, since we can't count the last two and the one before that those guys are only rookies and haven't proved it yet. Tough crowd.

I'll say it again. They aren't perfect, not close. But this idea that the team is barren of talent is ridiculous. This idea that they haven't developed anyone is ridiculous. This idea that realizing the team is bad and trading for good prospects? No credit, because they weren't perfect at fixing the team in 4 years. This idea some have that Ryan wasn't developed here, so he's not part of the pipeline? That trading Gray for a HS pitcher at least two years away, not party of the pipeline. 

All I've asked for is for people to look at the whole picture. YMMV, of course. I have no issue with that. But some of the bars people expect them to clear seem ridiculous to me (not you).

[dxpavelka]

12 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

And yet the Twins have never spent for a second piece, Maybe things are different if they sign a Gausman/Ray or Rodon to go with Correa.  Or maybe they signed Marte, Schwarber and one of the pitchers.

My point was that teams that win have high price players, maybe not the highest priced players but really good guys that are consistent and healthy cost big bucks. If you aren't gong to play in that end of the pool you have to develop those players and as of now this FO hasn't show that ability, we as fans are still hoping some of the old FO players save the day.

 

Buxton, Lewis, Miranda, Polanco, Arraez.  Seems like we've developed a few players.  Not even throwing in guys like Kirilloff or Larnach yet.