2 hours ago, sorney said:

If Falvine came in with no Plan B, do we really want them in charge of the pivot?!?!

No, but what's the alternative? I'd fire Falvey immediately and let Thad oversee blowing it up as the interim. Sadly there is zero chance they will actually do that. But a season of 10K fans in the seats and awful TV ratings might be enough to spur the Pohlads to actually take action.

22 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

No, but what's the alternative? I'd fire Falvey immediately and let Thad oversee blowing it up as the interim. Sadly there is zero chance they will actually do that. But a season of 10K fans in the seats and awful TV ratings might be enough to spur the Pohlads to actually take action.

Oh, totally.  That was more of a rhetorical.  

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

It was a great trade last year. They had the team, it just fell apart with injuries.

Now? Now I'd do the reverse for Mahle (I think they can use an option to keep Gray). They don't have Urshela or CC. We know Buxton won't stay healthy. This team has a very nice floor, but the ceiling is way too low, IMO. 

Gray is an UFA after this year according to Spotrac.

If there's a rebuild, I'm first entertaining trade offers on Falvey and Levine themselves.

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

If there's a rebuild, I'm first entertaining trade offers on Falvey and Levine themselves.

 

Might have to throw in Duensing to get any value. 

This FO has shown to be unpredictable over the years. Going from buyers (trading for Jaime Garcia) to selling him after 1 start. 

If they strike out on Swanson and Rodon, which seems likely, then I wouldn’t put it past them punting the 2023 season. 

WOW this thread really grew today. Well done mnfireman! You found the soft spot.

I get the anger/frustration. I'm not happy either. I'm not one to punt on much of anything. So maybe I'm naive. To steal from a fictional character:

"Fear is the path to the dark side...fear leads to anger...anger leads to hate...hate leads to suffering." The Phantom Menace (Yoda)

I'm not there yet. 

12 hours ago, baul0010 said:

If that is the case, we are in for a long year of losing.

He's a better stick than Urshela.

8 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Better bats than farmer on the twins roster right now: Buxton, Polanco, Arraez, Miranda, Larnach, Gordon, and Wallner. That's 7 even without considering Kepler (who even in a relatively poor year out-hit Farmer), Kirilloff (who is healthy, and it's fair to be skeptical, is a significantly better hitter), and Garlick (who should only have a part-time role).

Let's not be hysterical here.

I'm sure Gray & Maeda are drawing interest; I expect Mahle is as well. I wouldn't expect the twins to move any of them. But I would listen to offers, especially if the team is looking at the trade market for pitching because they might be able to get some of the prospect capital they need by moving Maeda, for example, to get someone better. Gray is not going anywhere unless the team stinks out the gate and is out of it by midseason, same with Mahle. but of course teams are asking. I'm also fairly certainly we're getting low-ball offers, especially from big market teams who think we should be grateful to send players to them for a used ball rack and the changes in their couch cushions.

And yet Farmer drove in 78 runs with a 62 win team surrounding him.  No Twin topped 66.  Buxton, Polanco, Arraez & Miranda are givens.  I said top 5.  Larnach, Gordon, Wallner and Kirillogg are unproven and two of them can't even stay in the lineup as often as Buxton.  Gordon is so productive he took 8 years to become a full time big leaguer.  You're right about Kepler.  He WAS as significantly better hitter.  FOUR years ago.  If he still were, 60% of  the folks on this site wouldn't be pushing for him to be moved.

Who is the architech and what is the plan?  The rumors or speculation are either fantasy and wishful thinking or idiotic.

6 hours ago, USAFChief said:

 

Might have to throw in Duensing to get any value. 

Now there's a name we haven't heard in a few years! LOL

10 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

And yet Farmer drove in 78 runs with a 62 win team surrounding him.  No Twin topped 66.  Buxton, Polanco, Arraez & Miranda are givens.  I said top 5.  Larnach, Gordon, Wallner and Kirillogg are unproven and two of them can't even stay in the lineup as often as Buxton.  Gordon is so productive he took 8 years to become a full time big leaguer.  You're right about Kepler.  He WAS as significantly better hitter.  FOUR years ago.  If he still were, 60% of  the folks on this site wouldn't be pushing for him to be moved.

It doesn't matter how long it took Gordon to become a full-time MLB player, he's still a better hitter than Farmer. And proven or not, Larnach, Kirilloff, and Wallner are still better hitters than Farmer. You're adding new criteria to try and push Farmer into that top 5.

Also? If you're using RBIs as your metric for who the best hitters are, I really can't help you.

9 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

It doesn't matter how long it took Gordon to become a full-time MLB player, he's still a better hitter than Farmer. And proven or not, Larnach, Kirilloff, and Wallner are still better hitters than Farmer. You're adding new criteria to try and push Farmer into that top 5.

Also? If you're using RBIs as your metric for who the best hitters are, I really can't help you.

A wise man once said that advanced analytics are an excellent way to project the past.

On 12/15/2022 at 7:04 AM, dxpavelka said:

Actually Plan B was one of the first things they did this off-season.  Farmer will be one of the top 5 bats in this lineup.

I agree. Farmer had 78 RBIs as a SS and was voted MVP of the Reds. Those 78 RBIs would have topped the Twins last year. Correa had 64.

On 12/16/2022 at 6:48 AM, jmlease1 said:

It doesn't matter how long it took Gordon to become a full-time MLB player, he's still a better hitter than Farmer. And proven or not, Larnach, Kirilloff, and Wallner are still better hitters than Farmer. You're adding new criteria to try and push Farmer into that top 5.

Also? If you're using RBIs as your metric for who the best hitters are, I really can't help you.

RBIs are a very valuable talent for a player to have. Larnach, Kirilloff nor Wallner have proven near as much as Farmer, voted the Reds MVP last year.

19 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

RBIs are a very valuable talent for a player to have. Larnach, Kirilloff nor Wallner have proven near as much as Farmer, voted the Reds MVP last year.

I'm sorry, but RBIs don't really tell you very much about the player's talent as a hitter. They say a lot more about their opportunities as a hitter. Farmer was at the plate a lot more than say, Trevor Larnach. To the tune of 403 more plate appearances. Farmer was at the plate with 347 base runners on last season. Larnach was at 100. It doesn't mean that Farmer is a better hitter.

Farmer was a decent player last year, a veteran and team leader who was healthy the whole year and wasn't traded during the season on what was a very bad team. Let's not pretend that he was voted team MVP because he was an all-star or something.

And I'm happy to have Farmer on the team. I'd rather it was as a utility guy, because he's not a particularly good hitter, and he won't be a particularly good hitter in 2023.

8 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

I agree. Farmer had 78 RBIs as a SS and was voted MVP of the Reds. Those 78 RBIs would have topped the Twins last year. Correa had 64.

Careful.  I've also advance that argument.  And been roasted for it.  Now, hopefully, guys like Kirilloff, Larnach & Wallner will surpass him but we've not seen that yet.  AND, HOPE is a terrible strategy.

On 12/15/2022 at 8:37 AM, Linus said:

Does anybody want Falvine overseeing a rebuild?  If they start dumping people the FO needs to go with them. 

Convincing Jimmy it's time to rebuild will buy them another five years in the org.