Gut Punch! Carlos Correa Signs with the Giants

[Alex Schieferdecker]

I'm bummed that Correa isn't coming back to Minnesota, but I'm not mad that the Twins couldn't match that deal. That's an insane offer.

[Steve71]

Some thoughts:

1)  How many of us would say "Yes" if Correa would have signed the identical deal with the Twins?  I vote "No".

2) With California's 13% income tax, the Twins AAV deal was actually very, very competitive.  I think Correa chose the Giants because he sees them as a better franchise long-term to get him into the playoffs consistently.  Difficult to argue with that analysis.

3) Twins should use their financial "cushion" this year creatively.  Extend a promising young player ala the Rays.  Candidates might be Miranda or one of the young pitchers (not Ryan, too old).

4) Another use of that cushion would be to absorb another team's short-term bad contract and collect some good prospects.

5) I would call San Diego and see if the rumors that Tatis is hated in the clubhouse are correct, and whether they want to swing a deal to get rid of him, paying part of that ginormous contract.  That might enable the Padres to sign Rodon or another target.

I refer readers to the "Baseball Remains Broken" thread for a complete discussion about how imbalanced MLB has become.

[EGFTShaw]

2 hours ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

 

Anyway, it was fun to have him on the Twins this year, but not overly upset that he signed with the Giants.  (Glad it’s not the Yankees.)

This is ALWAYS the bottom line. ?

[EGFTShaw]

8 minutes ago, Steve71 said:

 

2) With California's 13% income tax, the Twins AAV deal was actually very, very competitive.  I think Correa chose the Giants because he sees them as a better franchise long-term to get him into the playoffs consistently.  Difficult to argue with that analysis.

.

I think he has a chance to get into the playoffs every year in MN.

SF has to compete with The Evil Empire West Coast Edition, aka LAD, and the Southern CA New Rich Kids On the Block, aka the SDPadres.  That is going to be brutal.  SD has LOADED up is an understatement.

Now is SFG a better organization? ?‍♂️

[saviking]

Just glad that's over so we can move on. I prefer waiting for Lewis and Lee. Strengthen the pull pen now and extend some young players contracts with the money we saved. Possibly trade for a quality starter. 

Time to move on. No way I would have given Correa a 13 year deal ..

[Loosey]

The more we hear about this I think 2 things happened.

1) The Twins got played by Correa/Boras.  

2) The Twins fans got played by the Twins.  

10 years/$285M is a massive contract and in a vacuum looks like the team is finally ready to play with the big boys. But when you expand and take a look at the deals Turner and Boegarts got $285M really wasn't going to get the deal done.  

If that's what the Twins budgeted for him back in November before the other deals came up out they should have shifted gears the minute they decided not exceed.  

Correa and Boras were going to milk every last dollar they could out of whichever team was willing to pay it.  They let the Twins think $285M close (which is probably was at one point) but they knew it would end up being more.  The Twins probably knew that as well and stuck to their guns.  

If the Twins really are interested in Swanson they should have shifted their energy to him before the Correa contract in order to not let him take all the leverage which he was now as the last star shortstop...

[Steve71]

Well, the Giants have won 3 World Series since 2010, and won 107 games in 2021.

The Twins have not even won a single playoff game in the last 18 years.  The Twins have won over 100 games one time in their franchise history, 101 in 2019.

The Giants spend like a big-market team.  The Twins do not.

Which team would you rather play on?

[spanman2]

If that 10/285 is accurate that is a very legit offer.  13 is a joke but how the game is played in today's market.  Can't knock him for taking it and obviously the Giants saw it as a proper investment.  They have no issues selling out games.  Hopefully the Twins take that $$$/season and invest it elsewhere where it is needed.

[Aggies7]

Seems as if the only way for teams like the twins to counter this wild contract stuff is to start getting a whole lot better at scouting/drafting and developing big leaguers. There was a time not long ago the organization was really good at it. Need to improve in that area immediately.

[Coach Wheels]

13 year contracts for 28 or 29 year old players is what hurts baseball. Twins were right to pass and move on, go get Swanson and maybe 2 cheaper starters. Trade Arraez, you'll need to play Lewis at 3rd when he's healthy. Arraez can bring a good young starting pitcher

[minman1982]

From everything I have read, the Twins made a competitive offer.  Correa chose a few more years and some more money over a larger annual paycheck.  Can't say I really blame the guy.

I think the focus should turn to Rodon first and then Swanson second.  If I was to list the needs of this team going into the offseason, I would have put them in this order:

1. A starting catcher who can hit the ball

2. A clear top of the rotation starting pitcher: they have a lot of solid depth pieces but lack the one dude you go to when you need to dominate a game, protect the bullpen, and get the win.

3. Figure out what to do at shortstop (do you sign someone long term or plug the hole until the calvary arrives from the farm?)

4. An impact relief pitcher

5. A MLB caliber outfielder, preferably a center fielder that can play the 80 games Buxton will not play.

The AL Central feels like it will be a winnable division again this season.  The Tigers are a mess.  The Royals are still re-building.  The White Sox have some good pieces but as we saw last year could fall apart.  The Guardians are good but beatable.

[jmlease1]

23 minutes ago, Loosey said:

The more we hear about this I think 2 things happened.

1) The Twins got played by Correa/Boras.  

2) The Twins fans got played by the Twins.  

10 years/$285M is a massive contract and in a vacuum looks like the team is finally ready to play with the big boys. But when you expand and take a look at the deals Turner and Boegarts got $285M really wasn't going to get the deal done.  

If that's what the Twins budgeted for him back in November before the other deals came up out they should have shifted gears the minute they decided not exceed.  

Correa and Boras were going to milk every last dollar they could out of whichever team was willing to pay it.  They let the Twins think $285M close (which is probably was at one point) but they knew it would end up being more.  The Twins probably knew that as well and stuck to their guns.  

If the Twins really are interested in Swanson they should have shifted their energy to him before the Correa contract in order to not let him take all the leverage which he was now as the last star shortstop...

1) how? because Correa & Boras took the offer that had the most money and most years? How is getting outbid getting played? As soon as Turner signed for 11 years and $300M and Bogaerts signed for 11 years and $280M, we knew the numbers were getting very very big and might very well be beyond the Twins means. Twins made a big offer, SF made a bigger one. If any of these big market teams wanted to go in on Correa, the numbers were going up.

2) I guess this depends on how you view ownership in MLB. If you think the fans get to dictate how much the payroll is, and that the ownership should be required to take annual losses to "compete"...then I guess you got played. I don't care about saving the Pohlads any money; they've got plenty of it and they will be fine. Billionaires are always fine. But I don't expect that owners are going to lose money on their businesses just because fans want them to. Could they spend more? Sure. And because of the offer they made, we have a better idea of just how much. But because of baseball's skewed economics (which, BTW, the star players and their agents LOVE) it's always going to be hard to match it if a big market club with way more resources wants to bigfoot the deal.

the idea that we could have forced a deal with Swanson is pretty ludicrous, unless we wanted to give him the same kind of deal we offered Correa (i.e., massively overpaid for him). His play once Bogaerts and Turner came off the market has always been to wait to be the last guy standing and see how big he could go with those left at the altar. Do you want Swanson for $250M over 11?

I get it: it sucks to be left out when we've been told we had a shot. It sucks to always get out-bid by bigger markets. Welcome to baseball?

[AceWrigley]

4 hours ago, bighat said:

Maybe it's because it's the holiday season, and I currently volunteer to deliver food and donations to rural immigrant families.

God bless you Sir.

[Mike Sixel]

11 hours ago, Fat Calvin said:

I think this is going to be one of those blessings in disguise.  I think the Twins should bide their time, go with Farmer as a stopgap until Lee or our twice cursed #1 pick a few years back are ready to take over.  In the meantime, try to get a good right handed batting outfielder, and maybe a starting pitcher not named Rodon.  No insane contracts, please!

Like who? Who can they sign that is a difference maker? 

Last year was a record year for free agent starting pitchers, the Twins passed. Instead they dealt prospects, and still had nothing to show from two of the deals 

This year was a record year for short stops, they passed 

They've signed one long term deal with an elite player, and they traded him after two years.

Nothing has changed. They won't pay market rates for great players. 

[Mike Sixel]

27 minutes ago, Coach Wheels said:

13 year contracts for 28 or 29 year old players is what hurts baseball. Twins were right to pass and move on, go get Swanson and maybe 2 cheaper starters. Trade Arraez, you'll need to play Lewis at 3rd when he's healthy. Arraez can bring a good young starting pitcher

You don't think Swanson is getting ten years? He's not close to the player the other three are. Why would you sign two cheap starters? They have plenty of back end starters.

[ScottMNTWINSFAN]

As a long-time Twins Fan, I DO remember those last years of Joe Mauer's Contract. Though he was an amazing clubhouse guy, ambassador, class act MN Twin, there WERE times that many felt a bit "encumbered" by that contract. CC was such a spark this past year. But I'm with those of you saying that the 13 years at SF is too long a contract. I agree 100%. We are way past this in this era of Multi-Millionaire Athletes ~ but truth:

Kirby Puckett & Kent Hrbek each turned DOWN higher contract offers to stay with the Twins. If I'm not mistaken, the Oakland A's and NY Yankees each tried to lure them away and they refused to leave. Unbelievable these days.

I know, I know. This was NOT going to happen with Carlos. But I'm just saying...gone is the era of anything louder than $$$. So I'm not "buying" Correa's "LOVE" for the Twins. He still could have afforded that Dior Store Lifestyle here

[DocBauer]

I'm probably most upset because as this drug on, I had almost convinced myself the Twins had a real shot to keeping him. Shame on me! I knew he was gone the minute he signed last year. But I don't blame the Twins.

Boegarts, Turner, and Correa are very similar players in talent, quality, and production. Correa just happens to be a couple years younger. The 10yrs and $285M the Twins offered is commensurate to what Boegarts and Turner received, and equal or greater AAV. And they even offered Correa full control over the deal to opt out at different times to pursue something different/better if he wanted. So how is the offer to Correa cheap or in no way serious on the Twins part???

I wouldn't doubt that if Boras came back to the Twins and said: "Look, the Giants are in for 10yrs and $300M, will you be willing to bump an extra $15M?" that the FO would jump at it. I mean, even for the Twins, an extra $1.5M per for 10yrs is do-able. But that's not what we're talking here. We're talking $350M!! The Giants can afford to play the years of service game and just eat $15-25M per for the last 4-6yrs as a sunk/lost cost. There's just no way the Twins, or any mid-market team, IMO, can just be willing to eat that kind of yearly dead $.

Could the Twins have front loaded the deal more and bumped to...oh, I don't know...maybe $310-$315M? Yes, they could have, though it would have hurt and would have at least slightly affected payroll the first couple of years. But this whole deal isn't about the Twins not going a 6th year and another $25M to a FA pitcher. This was an extra $65M bump over 10years. And way more than what Boegarts and Turner got. 

It sinks. I would have liked him back for a number of reasons. I think the Twins, if given the chance, would have sweetened the deal a little bit. But the Giants offer and way of staggering it is just not something the Twins could do financially. And only a handful of franchises/markets could do so. I'm not crying cheap or weak on the Twins in this case.

 

 

[jmlease1]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Like who? Who can they sign that is a difference maker? 

Last year was a record year for free agent starting pitchers, the Twins passed. Instead they dealt prospects, and still had nothing to show from two of the deals 

This year was a record year for short stops, they passed 

They've signed one long term deal with an elite player, and they traded him after two years.

Nothing has changed. They won't pay market rates for great players. 

last year they signed an elite SS.

it's a little unfair to say they "passed" on the SS; it's not like they weren't in the game?

Part of the problem for the Twins is that the market re-set this off-season...possibly. Deals like Correa, Judge, Turner, Bogaerts used to be maybe 2 guys in an off-season, and 10+ years was even more rare. there's only been 22 contracts over 10 years in MLB history, and we just had 4 of them signed to kick in next year. There's only been 8 contracts in MLB history longer than 10 years...and half of them have just happened. That says to me that some teams are changing the market, but it's unclear whether this changes it for the whole league.

If the new "market rate" is 12-14 year contracts at top of the scale AAV...then yeah, Twins probably won't be paying market rates for great players. But I suspect only about 8 teams in baseball will. So what's the real market?

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, ScottMNTWINSFAN said:

As a long-time Twins Fan, I DO remember those last years of Joe Mauer's Contract. Though he was an amazing clubhouse guy, ambassador, class act MN Twin, there WERE times that many felt a bit "encumbered" by that contract. CC was such a spark this past year. But I'm with those of you saying that the 13 years at SF is too long a contract. I agree 100%. We are way past this in this era of Multi-Millionaire Athletes ~ but truth:

Kirby Puckett & Kent Hrbek each turned DOWN higher contract offers to stay with the Twins. If I'm not mistaken, the Oakland A's and NY Yankees each tried to lure them away and they refused to leave. Unbelievable these days.

I know, I know. This was NOT going to happen with Carlos. But I'm just saying...gone is the era of anything louder than $$$. So I'm not "buying" Correa's "LOVE" for the Twins. He still could have afforded that Dior Store Lifestyle here

Bull. They had plenty of money, they chose not to spend it. What about the beginning of the deal, they would not have that either had they not signed him.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, jmlease1 said:

last year they signed an elite SS.

it's a little unfair to say they "passed" on the SS; it's not like they weren't in the game?

Part of the problem for the Twins is that the market re-set this off-season...possibly. Deals like Correa, Judge, Turner, Bogaerts used to be maybe 2 guys in an off-season, and 10+ years was even more rare. there's only been 22 contracts over 10 years in MLB history, and we just had 4 of them signed to kick in next year. There's only been 8 contracts in MLB history longer than 10 years...and half of them have just happened. That says to me that some teams are changing the market, but it's unclear whether this changes it for the whole league.

If the new "market rate" is 12-14 year contracts at top of the scale AAV...then yeah, Twins probably won't be paying market rates for great players. But I suspect only about 8 teams in baseball will. So what's the real market?

For one year. That's not even close to what we are talking about. 

The real market is what we see. That's what's real. 

[jmlease1]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

For one year. That's not even close to what we are talking about. 

The real market is what we see. That's what's real. 

I see 2 markets, then. One for teams in big markets with the ability to spend $200-250M+ annually while still being profitable, and one for everyone else.

That's also real.

[ScottMNTWINSFAN]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Bull. They had plenty of money, they chose not to spend it. What about the beginning of the deal, they would not have that either had they not signed him.

Bull. Bull what? About the Twins having the $$$ (I wasn't talking about that). Bull that Hrbek and Puckett once turned down those teams for less payroll with the Twins? They did. Bull that you're mad at the FO for not keeping him? I'd debate you on that, but I really think the 13 years was too much. SF can afford it. We can't. I'm hoping for Swanson. We'll see!

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, ScottMNTWINSFAN said:

Bull. Bull what? About the Twins having the $$$ (I wasn't talking about that). Bull that Hrbek and Puckett once turned down those teams for less payroll with the Twins? They did. Bull that you're mad at the FO for not keeping him? I'd debate you on that, but I really think the 13 years was too much. SF can afford it. We can't. I'm hoping for Swanson. We'll see!

You think they can afford 28.5 million for ten years, but not for thirteen? Swanson isn't near the player CC is, but he'll get seven to ten years at over 25 million per ..... They can afford that?

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

I see 2 markets, then. One for teams in big markets with the ability to spend $200-250M+ annually while still being profitable, and one for everyone else.

That's also real.

I agree..... But weren't we taking about the market for elite players? 

[joefish]

I won't miss him. 

[Battle ur tail off]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

For one year. That's not even close to what we are talking about. 

The real market is what we see. That's what's real. 

My question is why didn't we offer this same package last year? If we had offered him 10/285 last year before the start of the season I think he takes it, don't you? Or even 8/250! He flat out came to them last year looking for a place to go. Why was there not a greater effort to go long term at this time?

[chinmusic]

Giants vs Twins at Target Field - May 22-24 (Mon-Wed)

Snide Dior posters; ? trashcans; ? appreciative applause?

Should be fun...

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, Lasorda_This_Out said:

OK..goodbye CC. OK with KF at SS till Lee-Lewis appear at The Show.

Now, lets see what the Twins FO do with the cash pile still available?

Right - good luck to Carlos but good for us!! $$ to spend on arms. Correa played for us last season and we were .500 or so………day to day player health wasn’t great but Correa sucked for 10 weeks in the middle of the season. His former team won the World Series with a solid rookie at short and with SUPERIOR PITCHING!

Spend on Eovaldi & maybe Fulmer (or like RP) - get Maeda into the Pen for depth!! Save $ going forward to extend Gray or Maeda or Mahle or all 3!! Keeping one or two of these guys would be beneficial.

Rodon would be nice but if other vets leave after year 1 or 2 of his contract due to lack of liquidity we are still weak. Spend on an affordable Eovaldi and maybe make a trade for more pitching if we’re in the mix at deadline.

[JD-TWINS]

34 minutes ago, ScottMNTWINSFAN said:

Bull. Bull what? About the Twins having the $$$ (I wasn't talking about that). Bull that Hrbek and Puckett once turned down those teams for less payroll with the Twins? They did. Bull that you're mad at the FO for not keeping him? I'd debate you on that, but I really think the 13 years was too much. SF can afford it. We can't. I'm hoping for Swanson. We'll see!

Swanson - why?

Don’t understand why last June when Correa was on IL and Lewis played well for 10 days……people were stating we should look at Correa’s trade value prior to deadline since he was opting out anyway……we had found our SS.

Now we can’t exist without a high $ free agent SS????

I get Lewis is risky going forward but we have 2 other guys on farm system that are highly touted. We just need Farmer to do what he does for big chunks of ‘23, maybe ‘24 and we should have an internal answer at SS.

Astros offered Correa a reality contract last year - he left - they won the Series with a rookie SS & solid pitching.

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, Steve71 said:

Some thoughts:

1)  How many of us would say "Yes" if Correa would have signed the identical deal with the Twins?  I vote "No".

2) With California's 13% income tax, the Twins AAV deal was actually very, very competitive.  I think Correa chose the Giants because he sees them as a better franchise long-term to get him into the playoffs consistently.  Difficult to argue with that analysis.

3) Twins should use their financial "cushion" this year creatively.  Extend a promising young player ala the Rays.  Candidates might be Miranda or one of the young pitchers (not Ryan, too old).

4) Another use of that cushion would be to absorb another team's short-term bad contract and collect some good prospects.

5) I would call San Diego and see if the rumors that Tatis is hated in the clubhouse are correct, and whether they want to swing a deal to get rid of him, paying part of that ginormous contract.  That might enable the Padres to sign Rodon or another target.

I refer readers to the "Baseball Remains Broken" thread for a complete discussion about how imbalanced MLB has become.

1) I'd be excited to watch him alongside some of the younger players. In 10 years the hope would be that a $27M AAV would look and feel like the deal the Twins have with Buxton. 

2) No. MN state tax would have him at roughly 10% I believe, and when you factor in the higher MN AAV (our big bragging point) the gap between the deals doesn't really budge; he makes $50M more in SF rather than $65.

3) Giving Jose Miranda a Wander Franco deal is a more prudent financial investment? Yeesh.

4) So make the team worse in the short term (i.e. rebuild) while they've got young positional talent or vets on team friendly deals everywhere? Hard pass. 

5) Trade for the immature star on a 14 year $340M deal because Correa at 13/$350 is so unpalatable?