The One That Got Away from the Twins Bullpen

[Nick Nelson]

Since the 2019 season, the bullpen has been one pervasive factor holding back the Minnesota Twins in their quest for contention. 

Ironically, during the same span, the two major-league leaders among relief pitchers in fWAR are former Twins Liam Hendriks and Ryan Pressly, the latter of whom just got done starring in the World Series (again). 

Image courtesy of Troy Taormina-USA TODAY Sports

 

Liam Hendriks and Ryan Pressly spent one season pitching together on the Twins staff. It was 2013, when Pressly had just joined the club as a Rule 5 pick, and Hendriks was playing out the string with the organization that first signed him. 

At the time there was no indication we were looking at two of the future biggest relief stars in baseball. Hendriks posted a 6.85 ERA in 47 ⅓ innings and was waived in December, owner of a 5.31 FIP and 5.8 K/9 rate through 156 big-league frames. Pressly was moderately effective as a rookie long reliever, tossing 76 ⅔ innings at a 3.87 ERA but with an underwhelming 49-to-27 K/BB ratio. He might not have hung around the majors all season if the team were not compelled to do so by his Rule 5 status.

I don't really blame the Twins for moving on from Hendriks, though it would've been nice to see him at least audition in a short-burst relief role first. When they waived him, he was claimed by the Cubs, who themselves waived him 10 days later. The Orioles, who claimed him from Chicago, followed suit by waiving Hendriks in February. 

Hendriks landed with the Blue Jays, who traded him to Kansas City in July. The Royals then traded him back to Toronto in October. Three weeks later, the Jays turned around and traded him to Oakland. You still keeping track? Me neither.

Needless to say, it took a lot of scenery changes for Hendriks, and a lot of teams had him in their grasp (however briefly) before he finally settled in for the A's and began reaching his full form as the best reliever in baseball. 

Pressly, on the other hand, was already reaching his full form when the Twins decided to trade him to Houston at the 2018 deadline. This was a very different situation and one much more worthy of dissection.

There seems to be a misperception that Pressly was a poor performer in Minnesota who instantly flipped a switch to become elite with the Astros, but that's not really the truth. 

Pressly's development with the Twins was a slow and gradual process. With each passing season, his velocity would nudge upward a bit, along with his strikeout rate. Under two different managers and three different pitching coaches, Minnesota stuck with Pressly through some fairly uninspiring seasons, all in the hope he'd eventually reach the dominant peak they long envisioned.

In 2018, he did it. All that time and work finally paid off. By now Pressly was averaging 96 MPH with his fastball and decimating opposing hitters. 

In 47 ⅔ innings with the Twins he had a 13.0 K.9 rate and a 17.9% swinging strike rate. Those numbers ranked ninth and fifth in all of baseball, respectively. He had a 2.95 FIP at the time they traded him. His spin rates were off the charts. It's easy to see why the Astros came calling.

 

Unlike the rest of their deadline sell-offs in 2018 – including the Eduardo Escobar trade that brought in Jhoan Durán – the Twins were not motivated to move Pressly, who still had another year of team control remaining. But they liked Houston's offer of Jorge Alcalá and Gilberto Celestino enough to pull the trigger. 

A reasonable decision at the time, especially considering the general volatility of relief pitchers. But with the benefit of hindsight, we can say that this trade has been an abject disaster for the Twins thus far. 

Alcalá and Celestino, to their credit, have both reached the majors, and the book is far from written on them. But neither has proven to be a major impact player yet, while Pressly has gone on to become one of the most impactful relievers in the league – and one the Twins could've desperately used over these past four years. 

Late-inning relief has been perpetual thorn in the organization's side. Thrust back into championship contention sooner than expected in 2019, the Twins found themselves short-handed in the bullpen, and traded for Sergio Romo and Sam Dyson at the deadline. Minnesota still got swept out of the postseason, with relievers taking the brunt of the negative WPA.

In 2020, the bullpen was actually a big asset through the 60-game regular season, but again it was the relief corps (namely Romo) lapsing severely in the playoffs. I'll never waver that Minnesota's offense bears most responsibility for that miserable 0-5 stretch in October of 2019-20 (and the team's long-running playoff woes at large) but the fact remains: they ran out of guns in crunch time. 

Meanwhile Pressly was emerging as an All-Star annihilator for the Astros – not to mention a big-time postseason performer.

The 2021 and 2022 Twins seasons were tanked largely by dreadful bullpens, with the main culprits being veteran pitchers targeted as late-inning replacements to fill Pressly's void. 

By now it seemed no matter which route the front office went in seeking bullpen help – signing a steady established name (Alex Colomé), trading for a buy-low candidate (Emilio Pagán), trading for a buy-high candidate (Jorge López), sticking with their staples (Tyler Duffey), moving on from their staples (Taylor Rogers) – they could do no right. Their lack of late-inning dependability became a major hindrance, a chronic momentum-killer and source of angst for fans.

Through it all, Pressly just kept on dominating for the Astros, like almost no other reliever in baseball. With his help, Houston went to the World Series three times in four years, and just won it.

Now, there are a number of counterarguments people could make (and have made) to refute the idea that Minnesota blundered with this move. To me, they all ring a bit hollow:

They didn't have the coaching staff to unlock Pressly at the time. It's not exactly a big secret that manager Paul Molitor and bullpen coach Eddie Guardado were widely viewed as ineffective at translating and embedding analytics principles for players. I would respond that while these coaches might have been inherited by the current regime, baseball ops still controls who is on the staff. And, four months after Pressly was traded, Falvey would install his own new group led by the analytically-inclined Rocco Baldelli and Wes Johnson. If the Twins recognized what they had in Pressly, they could've held him and brought in the right people to bring it out.

He wouldn't have thrived here like he did in Houston. One might argue that, even with new coaches, Pressly would've never reached the heights he did in Houston, where his ERA dropped from 3.40 in the first half with the Twins to 0.77 post-trade. Astros pitching coach Brent Strom is regarded as one of the best in the biz. Fair point. But in reality, Pressly only needed to stay the course to be a massive asset in the Twins bullpen. As mentioned, he was statistically one of the most dominant relievers in the league BEFORE they dealt him.

They weren't going to sign him to the contract extension Houston did. The reason Pressly is still on the Astros is because they quickly signed him to a two-year extension, buying out his first two years of free agency with a two-year, $17.5 million option. (They recently re-upped with another two-year deal.) This Twins front office hasn't shown any willingness to extend relievers, or really even to shell out multi-year contracts to them. But ... there's no reason they COULDN'T have extended Pressly, other than their own volition. I think we're past the point of deferring to this front office's stubborn adherence to a status quo that hasn't gotten the job done. 

Ultimately, any counterargument that tries to absolve the Twins of blame in ends up directing it back to them in some different way. The bottom line is that they took a measured risk in trading Pressly and, like many they've taken, this one blew up in their faces. 

I'm not saying it's some unforgivable offense. One thing I like about this front office is their threshold for risk in the name of upside. It's possible we'll rue this particular decision less one day, because Alcalá and Celestino have years of control remaining and potential left to tap. 

Also, while the overall tone of this column may be critical, it should be emphasized that the Twins deserve credit for identifying and acquiring these talents to begin with: 

They found Hendriks as an unknown teenager in the barely-scouted continent of Australia. They developed him into a legitimate prospect, who appeared in back-to-back Futures Games, and a big-leaguer. The Twins set Hendriks on the path to stardom.

They identified Pressly as a seemingly unremarkable arm in the Red Sox system, one who'd barely pitched above Single-A at age 24. They developed him from solid MLB long reliever to effective middle reliever to outstanding setup man before flipping him to Houston where Pressly completed his evolution.

The Twins have shown an eye for the right relief talent, but they've usually been unable to properly actualize it while in Minnesota. In order to escape their cycle of bullpen torment, they need to break the spell.

Twins Daily Caretakers can now download the new chapter of the Offseason Handbook, "Scouring Free Agency for Relief Help," and learn about the options available to them as they look to break the spell. If you haven't yet, sign up as a Caretaker to access all of the Handbook content as it drops! 

 

 

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[Game7-91]

This Twins front office hasn't shown any willingness to extend relievers,... I think we're past the point of deferring to this front office's stubborn adherence to a status quo that hasn't gotten the job done. 

Spot-on Nick. Well written and argued. It's not an overly critical take. Fair to both sides but truthful about the disastrous consequnces of trading RP. The value lost in the intervening 5 years since the trade is irreplaceable, regardless of what happens with Celestino/Alcala. This trade is the poster boy for bad decisions based in rigid ideas about roster and budget distribution. BP's need attention, that is, money-,committment, in this era of mlb. Twins are behind on this.

And dare I mention the overall Minnesota budget could actually approach, not match, but get closer, to Houstonian-level budgets? 

 

[Eris]

“The Twins have shown an eye for the right relief talent, but they've usually been unable to properly actualize it while in Minnesota. In order to escape their cycle of bullpen torment, they need to break the spell.“

 

Interesting article. Your last paragraph summarizes the challenge/ problem nicely.  It would be interesting to have a more expansive summary as there are other pitchers who have moved on from the Twins. 
 

I would also add that under the Wes Johnson era, the Twins were getting more out of their pitching staff. However, concurrently,  many pitchers in the organization both MLB and minors, had extended stays on the DL. These quantity of injuries, more than many other factor, decimated the talent available for the Twins.   Not sure if the run of injuries is a correlation with trying to get more out of the pitchers or if it is plain bad luck. 

[mikelink45]

I fear that you might write this article about Graterol and the trade for Maeda in a few years. It is a sad, but excellent article. 

Your writing makes me think you will be a future Athletic writer - you really do a good job, even when I don't agree I enjoy your essays - of course when I do agree, like this one they really standout.

Thanks. 

[Trov]

First, I would say still too early to evaluate the trade in full, mainly because Acala is still young enough to develop into a good relief guy, if he can stay healthy.  Could we have used Pressley a couple of years ago in the playoffs, maybe, but would he have made the difference, doubtful.  In both 2019 and 2020 we were beat and not because our pen blew the game late.  If you do not have a lead late in game, the closer makes no difference. 

Sure, you can say, had we had a better pen it trickles down, but based on how the games went, I doubt even with both Pressley and Hendricks we would have won.  If you are not going to win with the player, and you can get something that provides value down the road should you do it?  In my opinion, yes.  Maybe having Pressley this year, we could have made playoffs, assuming we kept him until this year.  However, we do not know how other moves may have been made over the years had we not traded away Pressley either. 

[USAFChief]

The Pressly trade was a poor decision in foresight, not just hindsight.

And in the long run, Alcala may yet produce, but Celestino isn't even worth mentioning. He provides no value, and in fact hurts the team by occupying a roster spot.

[Linus]

This is an example of my two biggest concerns with this FO. First absolute rigid adherence to their beliefs on how to build a roster. Second a middling to poor track record on player evaluation. I hope Alcala can contribute but let’s be real: he has had a couple good months and that’s it. A reliever that struggles to get lefties out ain’t that useful. Celestino in St Paul next year will be addition by subtraction. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

1 hour ago, Game7-91 said:

This Twins front office hasn't shown any willingness to extend relievers,... I think we're past the point of deferring to this front office's stubborn adherence to a status quo that hasn't gotten the job done. 

Spot-on Nick. Well written and argued. It's not an overly critical take. Fair to both sides but truthful about the disastrous consequnces of trading RP. The value lost in the intervening 5 years since the trade is irreplaceable, regardless of what happens with Celestino/Alcala. This trade is the poster boy for bad decisions based in rigid ideas about roster and budget distribution. BP's need attention, that is, money-,committment, in this era of mlb. Twins are behind on this.

And dare I mention the overall Minnesota budget could actually approach, not match, but get closer, to Houstonian-level budgets? 

 

I agree with Nick's point here and Game7-91. This right here is the problem as I see it. I must agree that identifying future pitching talent is hard to do, especially relief pitching. If it were an exact science, then all the teams could do it. I wonder if,  in 3 years, there will be a similar article written in TD about Graterol, Gil and especially Petty. I suppose that is part of the risk taken by Falvine and why they are paid the big bucks. Not all risks taken will end well. That's life. I do admire Derek Falvey and Thad Levine and Rocco I am reminded of Theodore Roosevelt's writing about "the man in the arena", who is actually making these difficult decisions at the risk of his job, his family's welfare, his reputation and massive public criticism when things don't turn out well. Onward and upward. 

[Doctor Gast]

Thanks Nick. It's a shame the Twins were able see the talent in Hendriks but weren't able to profile him as a closer and he passed thru many teams until OAK properly profiled him as such. I've always liked Pressly but I'm happy that HOU was able to have the key to unlock his full potential.

The patience that the Twins had with Pressly we need to have with Alcala & Celestino. Alcala has shown a lot of potential especially after developing his 3rd pitch, once healthy, he'll be impactful. Same with Celestino, he was prematurely thrust into the fire in '21 & as to be expected he was terrible. But the following year he made great strides and again because of injuries he was stretched & cracks appears playing a high profile position. Yet again I expect him to make great strides in 2023. So don't give up on Alcala or Celestino because they both have great talent.

Contrary to Pressly's trade, I was completely against the Rogers trade (except Rooker), Rogers should have been extended because we profiled him right (SD had no idea how to use him) & we needed him badly.  

[Dave The Dastardly]

21 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

The Pressly trade was a poor decision in foresight, not just hindsight.

And in the long run, Alcala may yet produce, but Celestino isn't even worth mentioning. He provides no value, and in fact hurts the team by occupying a roster spot.

Harsh, but hard to fault.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

49 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I fear that you might write this article about Graterol and the trade for Maeda in a few years. It is a sad, but excellent article. 

Your writing makes me think you will be a future Athletic writer - you really do a good job, even when I don't agree I enjoy your essays - of course when I do agree, like this one they really standout.

Thanks. 

Mike, I wrote my post below, before reading your post above. You and I had the same thought about a possible similar future article about Graterol. I wanted to mention my sequence, so you would know I was not plagiarizing your fine post. 

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

I fear that you might write this article about Graterol and the trade for Maeda in a few years. It is a sad, but excellent article. 

Doubtful. Maeda had a great first year with the Twins and was incredibly important and impactful for us on a team that made the playoffs and won a division title. Even with this year being lost to injury and last season being partially wiped out, we still have gotten more value out of Maeda than Graterol has produced. Starters are still more valuable than relievers, and Maeda finished #2 in the Cy for us! Graterol is a useful reliever, but is he better than say...Griffin Jax? (awfully similar stats when you look at WPA, bWAR, ERA, WHIP, FIP for last season. Graterol only clearly pips Jax in ERA+, but Jax pips him on one of the greatest abilities...availability.) No regrets about that deal; we got what we needed.

[Blyleven2011]

There is no spell to be broken ...

They FO might have an eye for talent but It's definitely coaching and their inability to take a talented player and tap into that players talent and make him better  ...

The players make all the strides to get to the show and then our current FO and coaches are comfortable with average  players  , TO TAP INTO THAT TALENT WE NEED BETTER COACHING  , don't see it changing as all the coaches are coming back ... 

It sounds like I'm negative  but it's really reality ...

It's my plan and I'm sticking to it  ...

 

[TwinsDr2021]

54 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Thanks Nick. It's a shame the Twins were able see the talent in Hendriks but weren't able to profile him as a closer and he passed thru many teams until OAK properly profiled him as such. I've always liked Pressly but I'm happy that HOU was able to have the key to unlock his full potential.

The patience that the Twins had with Pressly we need to have with Alcala & Celestino. Alcala has shown a lot of potential especially after developing his 3rd pitch, once healthy, he'll be impactful. Same with Celestino, he was prematurely thrust into the fire in '21 & as to be expected he was terrible. But the following year he made great strides and again because of injuries he was stretched & cracks appears playing a high profile position. Yet again I expect him to make great strides in 2023. So don't give up on Alcala or Celestino because they both have great talent.

Contrary to Pressly's trade, I was completely against the Rogers trade (except Rooker), Rogers should have been extended because we profiled him right (SD had no idea how to use him) & we needed him badly.  

Alcala turns 28 in July and Celestino turns 24 in February I would argue neither are still young. The have combined parts of 6 seasons and have a combined WAR of .9 and Pressly has a WAR of 6.

Alcala has 11 career holds, 1 save and 5 blow saves, he still needs to earn a high leverage role. I think he can but he still has work to do and Celestino hasn't really done anything to prove he is more than a minor league player. Teams that are trying to win can't have a player like Celestion as Plan A for anything.

[dogsday]

Good article. Certainly the Twins would be a better team with Pressly and Hendricks. But for me the real sub-text of the article is that quality baseball players are developed over time (unlike many other sports where high school or college players are ready to step right in and perform at a high level in their first year or two.) The Twins need to be constantly improving their development programs. Joe Ryan should be spending this off-season turning his secondary offerings into high quality pitches. Likewise our other young pitchers should be working on whatever will help them take the next step (as Pressly and Hendriks did.) There will always be front office choices that turn into hits or misses, but there are potentially impact players in the Twins system. The Twins need to become best in class at unlocking and promoting that talent.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Thanks Nick. It's a shame the Twins were able see the talent in Hendriks but weren't able to profile him as a closer and he passed thru many teams until OAK properly profiled him as such. I've always liked Pressly but I'm happy that HOU was able to have the key to unlock his full potential.

The patience that the Twins had with Pressly we need to have with Alcala & Celestino. Alcala has shown a lot of potential especially after developing his 3rd pitch, once healthy, he'll be impactful. Same with Celestino, he was prematurely thrust into the fire in '21 & as to be expected he was terrible. But the following year he made great strides and again because of injuries he was stretched & cracks appears playing a high profile position. Yet again I expect him to make great strides in 2023. So don't give up on Alcala or Celestino because they both have great talent.

Contrary to Pressly's trade, I was completely against the Rogers trade (except Rooker), Rogers should have been extended because we profiled him right (SD had no idea how to use him) & we needed him badly.  

Well said Doc. Thanks.

[Nine of twelve]

Yeah, it's too bad that Pressly didn't pitch up to his talent level while he was here, for whatever reason. And certainly as of now Houston has won that trade. Keep in mind we still have to see how Alcala and Celestino do for their careers before we make a full evaluation. But even if they do pan out well we could/should have gotten more than we did considering it was a deadline sell.

[Cris E]

Where did all this negativity about the FO's rigidity in bullpen design come from? They are trying a ton of things to get effective arms out there, and it still ended up a lost season.  The list below from the article doesn't include Fulmer (trade for good performer) or Joe Smith (FA signing that worked until he suddenly stopped being effective (hurt?) and was cut) or the swarm of anonymous minor league soldiers that shuffled through the roster this summer. 

Quote

By now it seemed no matter which route the front office went in seeking bullpen help – signing a steady established name (Alex Colomé), trading for a buy-low candidate (Emilio Pagán), trading for a buy-high candidate (Jorge López), sticking with their staples (Tyler Duffey), moving on from their staples (Taylor Rogers) – they could do no right. Their lack of late-inning dependability became a major hindrance, a chronic momentum-killer and source of angst for fans.

That said, I am disappointed that we haven't moved to a different pitching coach. I am usually one of the most forgiving people you'll meet when playing the injury card, but after a year where we were having such difficulty I hoped they'd make a move to shore up the coaching. 

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Alcala turns 28 in July and Celestino turns 24 in February I would argue neither are still young. The have combined parts of 6 seasons and have a combined WAR of .9 and Pressly has a WAR of 6.

Alcala has 11 career holds, 1 save and 5 blow saves, he still needs to earn a high leverage role. I think he can but he still has work to do and Celestino hasn't really done anything to prove he is more than a minor league player. Teams that are trying to win can't have a player like Celestion as Plan A for anything.

Pressly is 33, will turn 34 next month, he has been in his prime since he's been in HOU, Alcala is 27 & won't be 28 until July, Celestino is 23 and won't be 24 for a few months yet. Celestino has played less than 1 & 1/2 seasons, Alcala has played some fragmented seasons totaling around 1 & 1/2 seasons.

You can't compare 6 yrs of a player's WAR in his prime with those who's just starting to get a feel for their game. You can forget all those beginning years of Alcala & Celestino. Their last seasons they each made great strides in their game ready to break out. If you can't see that then I guess you're in the same boat that gave up on Hendriks.

[jorgenswest]

First credit to the previous administration who turned a rule 5 pick in Pressly into a valuable trade piece. The trade cost them the 2019 season. I will assume that he becomes a free agent and returns home to Texas in 2020.

That 2019 cost was significant. First, possibly going with the myth that relievers are fungible, the Twins sign Blake Parker. He failed and was released. Later at the deadline they had to give up prospects for Sam Dyson and Sergio Romo. Do they need to do any of that if they keep Pressly for 2019? With Pressly are they the home team in the playoffs? Do they win a playoff game?

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Pressly is 33, will turn 34 next month, he has been in his prime since he's been in HOU, Alcala is 27 & won't be 28 until July, Celestino is 23 and won't be 24 for a few months yet. Celestino has played less than 1 & 1/2 seasons, Alcala has played some fragmented seasons totaling around 1 & 1/2 seasons.

You can't compare 6 yrs of a player's WAR in his prime with those who's just starting to get a feel for their game. You can forget all those beginning years of Alcala & Celestino. Their last seasons they each made great strides in their game ready to break out. If you can't see that then I guess you're in the same boat that gave up on Hendriks.

I was comparing WAR between the two teams not really the players. The Twins have a total of 8 (5 for Celestino, 3 for Alcala) controllable seasons left out of 14 so the Twins still have some time to make this trade good or better. Alcala's last season was 21 and in his 59 games only 16 were high leverage and mostly against really bad teams at the end of the year, so he still has quite a lot to prove and my guess he will be brought along slowly in 23, IMO Celestino hasn't made great strides and unless things go real bad in 23 he shouldn't be playing in the majors unless he is amazing in AAA. I will give you that Alcala's career is similiar to Pressly's which bodes well for him and maybe the Twins.

 

[Riverbrian]

You win trades by improving the players that you acquire since almost all trades are near equal value when agreed upon.  

Houston did a great job of taking Pressly and making him much more than he was with us. That is how you win trades. 

Houston does a great job of making players better so they win a lot of trades... and... and... games. 

 

 

[jmlease1]

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

First credit to the previous administration who turned a rule 5 pick in Pressly into a valuable trade piece. The trade cost them the 2019 season. I will assume that he becomes a free agent and returns home to Texas in 2020.

That 2019 cost was significant. First, possibly going with the myth that relievers are fungible, the Twins sign Blake Parker. He failed and was released. Later at the deadline they had to give up prospects for Sam Dyson and Sergio Romo. Do they need to do any of that if they keep Pressly for 2019? With Pressly are they the home team in the playoffs? Do they win a playoff game?

Let's not overstate things here, ok? Hard to say a trade involving a reliever cost the Twins 2019, when they won 101 games. Would Pressly have been useful in the playoffs? Sure, but it wouldn't have changed the fact that our high-powered offense only scored 7 runs in 3 games. or that our "best" option to start Game 2 was Randy Dobnak. Not trading Pressly wouldn't have done anything to change the fact that Kepler, Sano, and Garver (key players all season for the Twins) did nothing in the playoffs or that Buxton was hurt. Hell, the bullpen in 2019 was pretty dang good for the Twins, with Rogers, May, and Duffey all having excellent seasons...and we didn't give up anything of note for ether Dyson (a bust) or Romo (excellent down the stretch). is anyone clamoring for Lewin Diaz or Jaylin Davis? (if you really want them, pretty sure we could acquire them quite easily)

Would have loved to have Pressly on the team, but it was a reasonable trade a the time (the Twins were 8 games back of the division and even further back in the wild card) and you can't predict injuries. Alcala looked very promising in 2020 and was developing well in 2021, and was expected to be a significant contributor this season to the Twins bullpen before he got hurt. If he bounces back from the injury he could be a weapon in 2023, because he's absolutely death to right-handed batters already. Celestino is a talented CF who will be a quality 4th OF and backup CF option if he continues to develop as a hitter. He was thrown into the fire too soon in 2021, and I think that's colored some people's perception on who he is. I'm not going to hammer the front office because they couldn't see the Alcala injury coming 3 1/2 years before it happened...

[miller761]

Pressly would have been gone after 2019 or traded at that deadline cause we wouldn't have paid. Don't think that was that bad of trade in fact it might turn out to be a good trade.

[HerbieFan]

Thanks for the reminder.  This feels a little like rubbing salt in the wound.

[weitz41]

The Escobar trade would look as bad, possibly worse, then this one does after the 2021 season.. After Duran's 2022 season it looks a bit different.

This FO would never have resigned him to a fair value contract. So we have Alcala and Celestino on our team now for someone who wouldn't be.

I'm happy that Pressly got a ring but not unhappy about the trade.

[Karbo]

With all the accolades given to Wes Johnson, he seemed more suited to turning starters into better pitchers, due to working on sliders. However, the pen seemed to stay stagnant the last few years. So you know what happens next, they promote the bullpen coach? This coaching staff just isn't very good. They use and abuse the pen, they don't seem to stress fundamentals, and are poor at improving players. Of course the FO has to accept a large portion of the blame with poor roster decisions, and they are the ones that make the decisions on who the coaches are!

[tarheeltwinsfan]

20 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Yeah, it's too bad that Pressly didn't pitch up to his talent level while he was here, for whatever reason. And certainly as of now Houston has won that trade. Keep in mind we still have to see how Alcala and Celestino do for their careers before we make a full evaluation. But even if they do pan out well we could/should have gotten more than we did considering it was a deadline sell.

With baseball players, like with most employees, it takes time and experience to get better at the job. Think how little you knew about your job when you first started. Remember how you learned each and everyday ways to improve your performance. It's the same with baseball players. Pressly was learning, getting stronger and getting better. And probably so will Acala and Celestino.  They are still younger than Pressly was when he came to the Twins. 

 

14 hours ago, miller761 said:

Pressly would have been gone after 2019 or traded at that deadline cause we wouldn't have paid. Don't think that was that bad of trade in fact it might turn out to be a good trade.

I think Pressly would want to be in Texas, his off season home. 

 

[KBJ1]

I couldn't agree more!! The Pressley trade (& others that year) were & continue to be a disaster.

Who cares if Alcala & or Celestino mature, develope and possibly contribute?

Meanwhile Houston has been in 6 straight ALDS and 3 World Series since 2018.

If we keep finding & developing talent only to flip them for future potential because you don't want to pay them, you will NEVER compete in the World Series.

Develope, maintain & add pieces to win!

Not, develope, subtract by trade, develope, subtract again in perpetuity.

The Bullpen has been their #1 problem for years. In this day and age of 5 inning starters you better have a well stocked pen!

No offense to Correa, he is a fine player, but that 35M on pitching along with Lewis & Miranda (who I said from the start we should have rolled the dice on)

Would have resulted in a far better season and Lewis would not have had his career threatening injury playing one game out of position because they wanted him in the lineup.

[jmlease1]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:29 PM, KBJ1 said:

I couldn't agree more!! The Pressley trade (& others that year) were & continue to be a disaster.

Who cares if Alcala & or Celestino mature, develope and possibly contribute?

Meanwhile Houston has been in 6 straight ALDS and 3 World Series since 2018.

If we keep finding & developing talent only to flip them for future potential because you don't want to pay them, you will NEVER compete in the World Series.

Develope, maintain & add pieces to win!

Not, develope, subtract by trade, develope, subtract again in perpetuity.

The Bullpen has been their #1 problem for years. In this day and age of 5 inning starters you better have a well stocked pen!

No offense to Correa, he is a fine player, but that 35M on pitching along with Lewis & Miranda (who I said from the start we should have rolled the dice on)

Would have resulted in a far better season and Lewis would not have had his career threatening injury playing one game out of position because they wanted him in the lineup.

The bullpen has been a problem only for the last two years. It was not a problem in 2019, the year after we dealt Pressly and won 101 games. Rogers, Duffey, and May were all excellent. They got good value out of Ryne Harper, Littell, Stashak and moved on from Blake Parker before he wrecked anything (and still wasn't terrible overall) and replaced him with Romo who was excellent down the stretch. Heck, they got great value out of Mike Morin. The bullpen was a non-issue in 2019.

2020 it wasn't really an issue either: Rogers wasn't as good (may have just been small sample size), but Clippard & Wisler were excellent and Alcala & Thielbar emerged. Duffey was still great, and May & Romo were still fine.

seems like you've got some recentcy bias that's driving your argument. I mean, I guess 2 years counts as "years", but it's pretty disingenuous. You're acting like the bullpen has been a mess ever since the Twins dealt Pressly and the reality is very different.