How Can Rocco Baldelli Regain Twins Fans Favor?

[USAFChief]

8 hours ago, FritzDahmus said:

Resign.

Concur.

[wabene]

For those that deride Baldelli in every or nearly every post they make there is nothing he could do to gain their favor. If the Twins won a playoff series or had a level of success not seen around here for decades, my guess is they would just go silent on the subject. I'm still sort of astounded while reading a post where at the end, even if it doesn't seem to fit the subject, they will finish with something along the lines of the manager must go. Almost like an email signature. I've never witnessed this much disdain for anybody in a lifetime of reading about sports. I, personally, don't get it. 

[MABB1959]

7 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

This post typifies, what I see in anti-Rocco posts. Attributing things to Rocco, that the fan doesn’t like about the front office. Rocco doesn’t get to choose the scouting or medical staffs. He doesn’t sign free agents, or set the roster.

I thought the managers job was to set the line-ups?  So what does “manager” mean in baseball?  He should be managing everything including the medical staff, conditioning and their rehab.  I agree he doesn’t have the final say in who the FO signs but he should be giving input.

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, wabene said:

For those that deride Baldelli in every or nearly every post they make there is nothing he could do to gain their favor. If the Twins won a playoff series or had a level of success not seen around here for decades, my guess is they would just go silent on the subject. I'm still sort of astounded while reading a post where at the end, even if it doesn't seem to fit the subject, they will finish with something along the lines of the manager must go. Almost like an email signature. I've never witnessed this much disdain for anybody in a lifetime of reading about sports. I, personally, don't get it. 

And that's different than those who vigorously attack anyone questioning a baseball manager...how?

Not only is there seemingly nothing Baldelli can do to make them even question a single decision, It's like they take it personally when someone else does.

 

[Unwinder]

My serious answer is that Rocco can only regain fans' favor with wins. Whether or not he pulls starters early, plays bad relievers in high-leverage situations, rests good players, changes up the lineups every day, refers to "spreadsheets," emphasizes fundamentals, lets players bunt or steal bases, tells guys to swing for the fences at every plate appearance, holds players accountable for bad play, operates in lockstep with the front office, shows emotion when the team loses, or accidentally makes two mound visits in one inning, if the team wins enough, he'll be fine. If he changes some or all of those behaviors and the team wins spectacularly, he'll be generally liked. If he changes none of them and manages exactly the same way next year and the team wins spectacularly, he will be liked. If he can't get the Twins to start winning, he will be disliked. Being the lightning rod for fan frustration is part of the job.

[Longdistancetwins]

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

This. So many fans here just hate on him (those fans probably loved him the first two years). The kinds of things people say are just mean spirited.....especially on this site.

For what it is worth (not much, I concede) I didn’t like Quilici, Molitor, or Baldelli as managers.  What did they have in common?  Lack of managing experience as high as the minor league level.  And in Baldelli’s case, we seem agreed that he hasn’t learned a whole lot by managing a major league team.  

[wabene]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

And that's different than those who vigorously attack anyone questioning a baseball manager...how?

Not only is there seemingly nothing Baldelli can do to make them even question a single decision, It's like they take it personally when someone else does.

 

Well I don't think someone vigorously attacking another for posting negatively about Baldelli is the right approach. For example my answer to the OP that you are quoting doesn't attack anyone. I do get very weary of the repetitive negativity. I even have my own complaints about Baldelli and the front office. I have not felt it was wise to add them to this site that is overrun with complaint. 

[insagt1]

I'm not (ever) a fan of the overuse of analytics. Its not baseball. Its video gaming. I wish starters could go longer. I wish that when Twins struggle to score runs, they WOULD try something different, like stealing a base, laying one down, or going the other way when half the field has no one defending. I wish Buxton would steal bases again. He may be the fastest player in the AL. (problem is he is so fragile that may never happen again, but it should)

Twins were fundamentally un-sound most the season. How much of this was on the manager, and how much was on all the injuries. One thing for sure, the 'talent' on the field in September was hardly major league calibre. And the true major leaguers didn't get the job done. (maybe Correa did)

I agree with many of the posters who said there probably isn't anything wrong with Rocco that winning wouldn't fix. It was a real tough year. And the way its finishing is simply awful.

 

[Mike Sixel]

36 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

And that's different than those who vigorously attack anyone questioning a baseball manager...how?

Not only is there seemingly nothing Baldelli can do to make them even question a single decision, It's like they take it personally when someone else does.

 

Name one poster that does that. No one defends him like the haters post mean spirited things. No one. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, sorney said:

Rocco, to me, is such a small part of the problem.

The problem is with roster construction, ability to develop consistently, and deviate from a plan if it isn't working.

You could say Rocco has a hand in all of them...but it feels like it's an org philosophy, not just a manager's

 

Agreed

[Unwinder]

4 minutes ago, wabene said:

I do get very weary of the repetitive negativity. I even have my own complaints about Baldelli and the front office. I have not felt it was wise to add them to this site that is overrun with complaint. 

Same. I feel like I can't actually critique Rocco without inviting another pile-on, so I avoid saying anything at all about him.

I do think that some people defend Rocco a bit too aggressively and personally, and I think what's going on under the hood is that they believe in the analytical style of baseball that Rocco and the front office represent, and they feel like the Twins are going to lose even more if they're replaced by a more go-with-your-gut regime. I definitely feel a lot more inclined to leap to Rocco's defense when someone suggests that his problem is that he won't turn back the clock and ignore the last 20 years of baseball knowledge.

[Brandon27]

I blame the FO more then Rocco this coming offseason their Top priorities is try bring back Correa,hit the pitching market hard starters and bullpen  and trade market as well 

[Mark G]

10 hours ago, dex8425 said:

Bunts don't create runs. They create outs. 

And they move runners up, putting them in scoring position or even better scoring position, they eliminate the force play and reduce the odds of a double play considerably.  They put more pressure on the pitcher and the defense.  The out becomes worth it, especially when the person you are asking to bunt is your low average hitter and is likely to make an out anyway.  

[Mark G]

4 hours ago, Unwinder said:

Same. I feel like I can't actually critique Rocco without inviting another pile-on, so I avoid saying anything at all about him.

I do think that some people defend Rocco a bit too aggressively and personally, and I think what's going on under the hood is that they believe in the analytical style of baseball that Rocco and the front office represent, and they feel like the Twins are going to lose even more if they're replaced by a more go-with-your-gut regime. I definitely feel a lot more inclined to leap to Rocco's defense when someone suggests that his problem is that he won't turn back the clock and ignore the last 20 years of baseball knowledge.

As opposed to the first 120 years of baseball knowledge?  What some of us are saying is the former should compliment the latter, not replace it.  

[USAFChief]

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Name one poster that does that. No one defends him like the haters post mean spirited things. No one. 

You're right. Almost no one actually defends Baldelli. 

But many here attack anyone who is critical.

 

[USAFChief]

5 hours ago, wabene said:

Well I don't think someone vigorously attacking another for posting negatively about Baldelli is the right approach. For example my answer to the OP that you are quoting doesn't attack anyone. I do get very weary of the repetitive negativity. I even have my own complaints about Baldelli and the front office. I have not felt it was wise to add them to this site that is overrun with complaint. 

Your post I quoted doesn't attack anyone?

It literally starts with "those that deride Baldelli in every post."

The entire post is about other posters.

Zero about Baldelli. 

 

[wabene]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Your post I quoted doesn't attack anyone?

It literally starts with "those that deride Baldelli in every post."

The entire post is about other posters.

Zero about Baldelli. 

 

That's not an attack. C'mon man. It is an observation and a factual one. I don't even pass any judgement I just state the fact. Now if you want my opinion on that behavior, that is another story. The OP was about what it would take to win fans back. I chose to discuss those that exhibit the most disdain for the man and my opinion on what would have to happen to change their stance. That is impossible to discuss without mentioning those fans and how they behave. 

Edit: the rest was just a rant and wasn't going to do any good. 

[TwinsDr2021]

13 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Some people are definitely asking the Twins to play a different style of baseball, though. There are consistent demands for the starters to be left in games longer, period. Demands for the team to bunt more and "manufacture runs" (which clearly translates to a different approach). explicit requests for the game/lineup/decisions to be done more on "feel" and less by analytics. that's not a different style?

Finally, I'm not really sure where you get the idea I said that 2021 was a rebuilding year. I said clearly that we were expected to contend from the jump in 2021 and then the team collapsed (through early bullpen implosions and then a deluge of injuries), causing major disappointment. I called 2022 a re-loading year, NOT a rebuilding one as well.

Is there any person that doesn't think the Twins should let their starters go longer in certain situations?  (not all situations)

Trying to manufacture a run now and then isn't asking them to play a different style it is asking to them to have the tiniest bit of situational awareness. For example on at least 4 occasions the Twins ended a game down by 1 with multiple runners on with a fly ball to the warning track, that is going for a homer when a single wins or extends the game and that terrible baseball.

You are correct on your second paragraph I didn't read your post the way it was intended, I apologize.

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, USAFChief said:

And that's different than those who vigorously attack anyone questioning a baseball manager...how?

Not only is there seemingly nothing Baldelli can do to make them even question a single decision, It's like they take it personally when someone else does.

 

Seemingly is an important word that you use. 

Speaking for myself. I have often questioned decisions made. 

By choice, I am not going to pour that gasoline over this burning website. 

 

[rv78]

15 hours ago, dex8425 said:

Bunts don't create runs. They create outs. 

Not if they are executed properly. I've seen our high school baseball team win 2 state Championships with properly executed squeeze bunts. Oh, never mind, that's not baseball for the majors, it's only for young people who don't know how to play the game.

[prouster]

10 hours ago, USAFChief said:

And that's different than those who vigorously attack anyone questioning a baseball manager...how?

Not only is there seemingly nothing Baldelli can do to make them even question a single decision, It's like they take it personally when someone else does.

 

It's actually the self-righteousness and headstrong insistence that there's only one way to play baseball that bother me, not the Rocco bashing itself. There are good reasons to both retain and fire him.

[prouster]

20 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Not if they are executed properly. I've seen our high school baseball team win 2 state Championships with properly executed squeeze bunts. Oh, never mind, that's not baseball for the majors, it's only for young people who don't know how to play the game.

Well, Manny Machado isn't playing third base for Eden Prairie.

[TwinsDr2021]

13 hours ago, prouster said:

I’m not being snarky—if this is the style of baseball you want to watch, you should switch to college baseball. 

I can't believe anybody is looking for the Twins to play that style of baseball all the time, just asking the Twins to play a bit more situational baseball, but if they are you are correct they are watching the wrong games.

[Mark G]

10 minutes ago, prouster said:

Well, Manny Machado isn't playing third base for Eden Prairie.

Too bad; if he was, he would know how to bunt.    

[TwinsDr2021]

12 minutes ago, prouster said:

It's actually the self-righteousness and headstrong insistence that there's only one way to play baseball that bother me, not the Rocco bashing itself. There are good reasons to both retain and fire him.

So are you saying you don't like the Twins self-righteousness and headstrong insistence on there's only one way to play baseball?

[Blyleven2011]

By so many responses in a 24 hour period , it is clear what the twins fan base thinks of Rocco  ...

Don't forget the plan the FO  has orchestrated  , I hope they  stay away from the dumpster diving  ....

Average pitching can make you competitors during the seasons but not contenders in post season  ...

Their plan has to change,,, Quality pitching wins games ...

[Riverbrian]

Many many years ago. I landed my first Classic Rock programming job and we had an event that first week that a lot of our listeners would attend. I was going to talk with all of them and gather their opinions in an effort to build the perfect radio station because I was young, inexperienced with reality and I was going to create the greatest radio station ever on my way to being the best radio programmer ever. 

I talked to a listener and he told me that we played way too much Pink Floyd. I listened to him, I took him seriously and I respectfully talked about the popularity of Dark Side of the Moon, The Wall, Album Sales, I talked about the test scores of Wish You Were Here. I gave him actual rotation data on the approximate intervals of how often Pink Floyd is actually played. I compared Pink Floyd air play to the Stones, Zeppelin and other artists. I told him exactly how many Pink Floyd songs that we consistently play and how many we would consider playing. I took him seriously and I answered honestly, I spent a lot of time explaining Pink Floyd and the role it played in the format and the radio station. 

It didn't matter... he replied to everything with something along the lines of "If I wanted to hear Pink Floyd, I'd listen to the Soft Rock Station". 

I thanked him and worked my way through the room to gather more opinions from others in my quest to be the greatest ever. The next person that I talked with told me that "WE DIDN"T PLAY ENOUGH PINK FLOYD". 

Rocco has no chance of avoiding pitchforks. No matter what he does... they are coming from one direction or the other. 

 

[Rosterman]

During the off-season, Rocco could do what Tom Kelly also hated to do...go out and meet fans, be it on question-and-answer talk radio, appearing with TC Bear and a player at some bigger events.

An opportunity to really talk abseball philosophy, as well as spread the Twins brand.

[prouster]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So are you saying you don't like the Twins self-righteousness and headstrong insistence on there's only one way to play baseball?

I don't particularly care what kind of baseball they play as long as they win games.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

13 hours ago, wabene said:

You could actually argue that due to the above average amount of injuries, a fine managing job was done to meet the original expectations. 

Don't bring logic to an emotional (or opinion based) discussion.