Carlos Correa Makes His Decision Clear

[tony&rodney]

8 hours ago, RJA said:

When is TD going to get the "build the roster" article out so we can start talking about/working on next year?

Slow down .... there is still more than a month of baseball left in 2022.

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, dex8425 said:

just like the Mauer years.

Why do i remember some really good Twins teams that included Mauer?

[D.C Twins]

Good luck to him. I am actually happy that the Twins won't toss 250 million or more at him.

I actually think Correa and Boras are going be a bit surprised by the lack of a line of other teams to do so as well.

I don't see his market being any better this year than last.

But again, great to have him on the team this year, with no heartburn about his leaving given the money he wants

[DJL44]

7 hours ago, KnoblauchWasFramed said:

And what about the other large market teams and their current SS options:

The Cubs might be ready to spend some money. Seattle could use another infielder. It only takes one team.

[nicksaviking]

6 hours ago, Einheri said:

No one reasonably expected him to be a Twin in 2023 unless he got hurt or really sucked in 2022.

Good luck to him.

Also, no one reasonably expected him to be a Twin in 2022. Yet, here he was.

Dislike this team for whatever reasons you choose, but not accommodating unexpected free agents should no longer be one of them.

[RaoulDuke]

16 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

A reloading team with as much payroll flexibility as the Twins have, one that sees a potential AL title in 2023, has already signed Correa to an extended contract. They see the value, and they know that if either Lewis or Lee can develop, either can serve as a quality backup while they're learning from one of the best in the game. Either could also be used to trade for high-end pitching.

A rebuilding team, one that knows a title is still out of sight, has no need of Correa. They already would have notified him of their decision, not leaving him on the fence for reporters to hassle him about his option and expose him to fan vitriol. That team takes its lumps with Palacios and Gordon while Lee and Lewis try to (re)develop their MLB skills.

A driftless team, one with no clue as to where it's headed, lets something like this happen. A great player is left dangling while the FO sees if they can maybe wait out the offseason and pick him or another top SS again for a no-commitments contract. That team will stumble through yet another season, kinda rebuilding, kinda reloading, with no vision or timetable for winning a title.

Personally, I wish we were either the first or the second kind of team.

The Vikings model which leads to a lot of .500-ish finishes which is the worst place you can be if you ever want to really compete.

Go all in or punt and acquire assets.  Finishing 82-82 gets you a **** draft pick and at best an early playoff exit, though it does sell more tickets than punting unfortunately.

[bighat]

18 hours ago, ashbury said:

Completely agree.  Where some are seeing clear-headed understanding of the market for elite players, I saw arrogance.  And I'm far from the camp that berates players for demanding their slice of the pie.  But he has to use common sense in defining his "brand", if he really has a grasp of the market.

This is one of the reasons players hire agents, to say the things that may need to be said.  Oh, that wicked, greedy Scott Boras, except no, he's just the mouthpiece.  Part of the agent's commission is for being The Heel in each little drama.

Carlos may not have severely damaged his value in the coming free agent market, but he didn't do it any good either.  This was a moment when he should have answered the reporter's question with platitudes.  "I love it here, I hope we can work something out."  Let Boras spell out the Dior analogy, or that the player has to feed his family, if it's needed.

Well put and hit the nail on the head, said much better than my original comment. 

Like you I don't begrudge players for seeking top dollar, nor do I have any ill-will towards them for making millions in the game of baseball. I also don't think Correa owes Minneapolis a "home town discount" of any kind. 

But his comment was at the very least obtuse if not seriously distasteful. Yuck. 

[bighat]

19 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Okay, so let's pay our bargain price of $6 for a t-shirt. Seriously ... I've heard nothing but complaints from many, including you, about the quality of play. But ... if you want a better quality, you have to pay for it. If you want to continue shopping for your players at BargainsRus ... then what we get is what we have now. Let's shop at Dior for a change. And Cartier. And Tiffany's. We need a few of those special pieces or we will continue to have a 'last year's fashion bargain bin' team. And sure, we might even find something great there from time to time.

He was exactly right. And he knows it. He is a premium player at a premium position. We need the $1000 t-shirt there, not the $6 one. imho.

I have no problem with Correa seeking top dollar. And he made a great point - you want the best, you gotta pay for it. I think we all agree that's true in baseball. 

So yeah, like you I agree with Correa's point, but I think he struck out on the terminology. 

If he'd have said "Sometimes you gotta go get your groceries at Whole Foods" - we'd all identify with that. Sure not everyone shops at Whole Foods, but we've all been inside one before and at least understand the metaphor. But "Dior"? Are you serious? That's just an abstract concept for 99.99% of baseball fans. Who shops there? Leonardo DiCaprio? Rhianna? The judges from the Cannes Film Festival? When I think of a Dior store, I think if you walked in there dressed like you were from White Bear Lake, you'd get kicked out faster than a Trevor Larnach strike out on 3 straight breaking balls. 

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the money, and frankly I'd love it if the Twins paid up for his services.  What I AM saying is that anyone who's so much as taken a PR class in college can see that it was a terrible choice of words. Honestly it was just about the worst terminology possible used to make his point. 

[RJA]

12 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Slow down .... there is still more than a month of baseball left in 2022.

Actually, there is less than a week of Twins baseball left.  But, I was being facetious.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, bighat said:

I have no problem with Correa seeking top dollar. And he made a great point - you want the best, you gotta pay for it. I think we all agree that's true in baseball. 

So yeah, like you I agree with Correa's point, but I think he struck out on the terminology. 

If he'd have said "Sometimes you gotta go get your groceries at Whole Foods" - we'd all identify with that. Sure not everyone shops at Whole Foods, but we've all been inside one before and at least understand the metaphor. But "Dior"? Are you serious? That's just an abstract concept for 99.99% of baseball fans. Who shops there? Leonardo DiCaprio? Rhianna? The judges from the Cannes Film Festival? When I think of a Dior store, I think if you walked in there dressed like you were from White Bear Lake, you'd get kicked out faster than a Trevor Larnach strike out on 3 straight breaking balls. 

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the money, and frankly I'd love it if the Twins paid up for his services.  What I AM saying is that anyone who's so much as taken a PR class in college can see that it was a terrible choice of words. Honestly it was just about the worst terminology possible used to make his point. 

You know, I have prepared for many interviews in my lifetime ... prepared for all the stock questions that will be thrown at me. I know they're coming, yet, there have been times, even when I'm prepared, in that moment I've said things I wish I had said differently or said better and knew that I could have. I think you are being unnecessarily critical. Correa was asked a question he gave an honest answer and made a valid point. But we are being super critical (and yes, I think you and few others are) because it's not relatable? Because people have never heard of or don't know or haven't shopped at Dior? That was kind of the point, but are you so certain they haven't and don't get the point being made? I don't shop at Dior, or any of the other places I've mentioned, but I'd certainly like to have a piece or two. But, Midwestern practicality ... don't spend money in those places when you can get a t-shirt for $6 at Target, or Costco or Walmart. And same with those posters who claim 'tactless and arrogant.' I just don't see it. He knows his value. And, as was pointed out, we also don't know in what context the question was asked. I think everyone is feeling, what? Snubbed? Put down? And I don't shop at Whole Foods because I don't think it's truly all that much better than other options, so I don't necessarily think that makes the point. (Maybe if you had said Lunds or Byerly's )Dior is obviously a more elite place. And that's the point.  

[bighat]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

And I don't shop at Whole Foods because I don't think it's truly all that much better than other options, so I don't necessarily think that makes the point. 

Good points. That said, the above is exactly how I feel about Dior. I'd never in a million years buy a $120 tee shirt, or a $1200 pair of shoes, a $20,000 purse or a $75,000 bracelet.  Even if I won the lottery. 

He might as well have said "If you're serious about a quality particle colliders and tandem linac accelerator systems, you have to be willing to drop big money at the Cornell Electron-positron Storage Ring". 

I totally get the point, but it wasn't relatable. 

And I don't HATE him for muffing this one, I hope the Twins sign him and open up the checkbook! 

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, bighat said:

Good points. That said, the above is exactly how I feel about Dior. I'd never in a million years buy a $120 tee shirt, or a $1200 pair of shoes, a $20,000 purse or a $75,000 bracelet.  Even if I won the lottery. 

He might as well have said "If you're serious about a quality particle colliders and tandem linac accelerator systems, you have to be willing to drop big money at the Cornell Electron-positron Storage Ring". 

I totally get the point, but it wasn't relatable. 

And I don't HATE him for muffing this one, I hope the Twins sign him and open up the checkbook! 

But ... to get a player like Correa, you are going to have to shop at and pay for Dior. That's the reality. Or, just keep paying for mid-level or lower retail outlets and hope to find the right combo. That's my point ... if want Correa, or players/pitchers of that level of elite, it means shopping at and paying Dior prices ... to me, whether we like it or not, relate to it or not, that is just the reality of it. I don't think he was being tactless or arrogant, as a couple other posters said, I think he was just being brutally honest, and some of our Midwestern sensitivities got a bit ruffled  

[tarheeltwinsfan]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:54 PM, sthpstm said:

I’m shocked that someone who would cheat to win isn’t more tactful? No, his being arrogant or expectant of a big pay day or whatever your take is, doesn’t surprise me at all.

Correa can play on my team any day. He is a class act. Period.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

...yet, there have been times, even when I'm prepared, in that moment I've said things I wish I had said differently or said better and knew that I could have.

If we're in apparent agreement that, given a chance for a do-over, Carlos perhaps should take it, I'm having a hard time seeing the need to defend his choice of words.

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

I don't think he was being tactless or arrogant, as a couple other posters said, I think he was just being brutally honest

There's honest, and then there's brutally honest as you term it, and to me the latter fits a description of tactlessness pretty much to a T.  Brutal honesty is for example when a boss has to correct an underling's behavior; not to enhance the value of the "product", as Carlos fashions himself.  Brutal honesty is what Sheldon Cooper or Mister Spock or Mister Data or Mister Worf *use when they fictionally misunderstand human conventions.

A saying, attributed variously to Dear Abby and the Buddha and others, is, when considering whether to say something, ask

• is it true?
• is it necessary?
• is it kind?

We're all in agreement that what Carlos said is true.  In the upcoming off-season negotiations, he holds most if not all the cards as regards the Twins. 

Was it necessary for him to spell it out, to a reporter asking what seemed like a random softball question?  I can't see a reason, no. 

Was it kind?  To imply to a broad listening audience that he's a big shot who shops at Dior and can afford to pay asking prices? I don't see how it qualifies.  There are other true things to say instead, such as "I hope something can be worked out".

Few people value hearing brutal honesty, to be brutally honest, so why should a person in the public eye go there?

* Man, Star Trek sure liked using that particular trope

[wabene]

If a half dozen grey t-shirts and a couple of different color shorts qualifies me as a fashionista, count me in! 

[Squirrel]

11 minutes ago, ashbury said:

If we're in apparent agreement that, given a chance for a do-over, Carlos perhaps should take it, I'm having a hard time seeing the need to defend his choice of words.

There's honest, and then there's brutally honest as you term it, and to me the latter fits a description of tactlessness pretty much to a T.  Brutal honesty is for example when a boss has to correct an underling's behavior; not to enhance the value of the "product", as Carlos fashions himself.  Brutal honesty is what Sheldon Cooper or Mister Spock or Mister Data or Mister Worf *use when they fictionally misunderstand human conventions.

A saying, attributed variously to Dear Abby and the Buddha and others, is, when considering whether to say something, ask

• is it true?
• is it necessary?
• is it kind?

We're all in agreement that what Carlos said is true.  In the upcoming off-season negotiations, he holds most if not all the cards as regards the Twins. 

Was it necessary for him to spell it out, to a reporter asking what seemed like a random softball question?  I can't see a reason, no. 

Was it kind?  To imply to a broad listening audience that he's a big shot who shops at Dior and can afford to pay asking prices? I don't see how it qualifies.  There are other true things to say instead, such as "I hope something can be worked out".

Few people value hearing brutal honesty, to be brutally honest, so why should a person in the public eye go there?

* Man, Star Trek sure liked using that particular trope

No, we’re not in agreement. I found his choice of words fine, and his analogy the point he was making was apt. Just saying that for others who think he should have responded differently, who took great offense, no one’s perfect and each of us has moments, so maybe just take a breath and don’t be so offended. You say plenty that others take the wrong way and we still give you the benefit of a doubt

[ashbury]

30 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

No, we’re not in agreement. I found his choice of words fine, and his analogy the point he was making was apt. Just saying that for others who think he should have responded differently, who took great offense, no one’s perfect and each of us has moments, so maybe just take a breath and don’t be so offended. You say plenty that others take the wrong way and we still give you the benefit of a doubt

In all fairness, if I were being paid for my words of wit and wisdom I might phrase any number of things differently.

[Squirrel]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

In all fairness, if I were being paid for my words of wit and wisdom I might phrase any number of things differently.

He’s not being paid for his words either

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

He’s not being paid for his words either

Another area where we differ about the player.

[minman1982]

Not surprised at all.  The only way he was going to stay with the Twins is if he got hurt and had little to no chance of getting any type of long term deal in free agency.  I don't see him getting $325M in this market though.

[DJL44]

22 hours ago, RJA said:

Actually, there is less than a week of Twins baseball left. 

It is interesting to me how baseball does not seem to be as sticky as football when it comes to the postseason. So many baseball fans seem to abandon the sport during the playoffs if their favorite team doesn't make it. I don't think this is the same for football. People still watch the NFL playoffs even if they don't have a rooting interest.

I'd rather watch any MLB playoff game than a single Vikings game.

[h2oface]

More like a Dior knock off store..... with the cheating.

[h2oface]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It is interesting to me how baseball does not seem to be as sticky as football when it comes to the postseason. So many baseball fans seem to abandon the sport during the playoffs if their favorite team doesn't make it. I don't think this is the same for football. People still watch the NFL playoffs even if they don't have a rooting interest.

I'd rather watch any MLB playoff game than a single Vikings game.

Being a baseball fan, with the Twins my childhood team that stuck forever, I almost enjoy watching the playoffs more without the Twins in it. Saves the embarassment the last 3 decades, and I can appreciate the high quality and intensity of play without bias, and and just enjoy great baseball without the emotional attachment to impending doom of my team. Of couse, if they would just win a few in the playoffs, or make a run, it is the ticket.

"It is right there in front of us."

[tony&rodney]

13 hours ago, DJL44 said:

So many baseball fans seem to abandon the sport during the playoffs if their favorite team doesn't make it. I don't think this is the same for football.

The only football I have watched in the last four decades is the World Cup. I do watch too much baseball, but not much else as far sports.

[Riverbrian]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:39 PM, ashbury said:

 

A saying, attributed variously to Dear Abby and the Buddha and others, is, when considering whether to say something, ask

• is it true?
• is it necessary?
• is it kind?

 

Interesting

If the public didn't read Dear Abby... Dear Abby would have ceased to exist. 

Yet... if the general public read Dear Abby... the need for Carlos Correa to provide perfection wouldn't exist because they would be true, necessary and kind.  

Turns out a general public who is completely unable to parse their words is critical of an individual who was unable to parse their words.

Every single time this happens... I find myself further and further from being informed.

But who needs actual information when we can get a bite sized cliché that says nothing instead of actual information.

Who knows... maybe these bite sized empty calories, are indeed the perfect way to determine who stays in the cool kids club. Maybe buzzwords are all we need to determine who to vote for or against. 

I agree with you. He should have stuck to the script because of our behavior and only because of our behavior. 

Here's what I'd love to see but won't.

I'd like to see him (all athletes being interviewed) reach down and grab a book that is clearly titled "Standard Safe Sports Cliches" so all can see that he is reading from a book titled "Standard Safe Sports Cliches".  Maybe page through it a little bit for effect... then directly read a standard safe sports cliché from that book.

Then close the book and walk away.

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Interesting

If the public didn't read Dear Abby... Dear Abby would have ceased to exist.

Dear Abby may turn out to be a 66 year flash in the pan, but the Buddha has had some staying power.

I have learned a lot from this thread.

[Mike Sixel]

Meh, I don't care if he talks like that, or in cliches. I don't listen to that kind of talk at all anymore. It just doesn't interest me. The games and the outcomes and the plays interest me. And for that, people should want him in MN.

[LA VIkes Fan]

On 9/29/2022 at 10:19 PM, Mark G said:

I wonder about the context of that clip; what was said before and after would be helpful to know.  

It is in contrast to the article I read in Wednesday's paper about him wanting very much to stay long term.  He used the analogy about being married vs. dating, saying he wanted to marry an organization and was waiting for the Twins to, in his words, "pop the question".  It was a very positive article with more quotes suggesting he would like to stay here, but he did imply it would take a long term contract.  The ball is in JP's court; he has to decide relatively soon.  I have to believe the team wants him back, and Rocco would love to pencil his name in the lineup 140 times a year.  But if it comes down to nothing but money, wish him well next week, because it will be the last we see of him.    

Correa is the best player we have had for a number of years and the Twins have the opportunity to sign him long term. All we have to do is pay the market value or close to it for his services. That's all he's saying. I'm a little surprised people are upset or put off by that statement. The good news is we got a one-year trial and both sides seem to be interested. That was the best we could possibly hope for and frankly that is exactly the way the contract was structured - a one-year trial for both sides who can now decide whether they want to go forward.

I think we should go forward and try to sign Correa long-term. I don't think we have another shortstop on the horizon with Lewis having torn his ACL now twice, Palacios unable to hit, and Lee an unknown. A quality free agent shortstop is going to cost almost as much as Correa or maybe even more and we will not have the depth of experience with that player. I am completely against signing mediocre veterans on one-year deals to cover shortstop.

How much? I would absolutely give him five years, $200 million but I don't think that's going to carry the day. I think he'd be looking for at least seven years and probably north of $250 million. To me, that would be worth it but it's not my money. The real conundrum I see is I think we need to sign one top end starter to go with him, and then I think we can carry the rest of the team with what we have. I would love to see them sign Correa long-term and sigh a three or four year deal with Carlos Rondon, run the rest of the team back and see how we do. Actually, I would like to see them sign Justin Verlander or Jacob deGrom but neither one of those two is coming to Minnesota and we couldn't afford them even if they wanted to come. I would also think about trading young pitching with real upside like SWR, Ober, Varland, etc.  to a bad team that happened to have one really good starter but I'm not aware of any such situation.

 

[LA VIkes Fan]

On 10/2/2022 at 6:14 AM, DJL44 said:

It is interesting to me how baseball does not seem to be as sticky as football when it comes to the postseason. So many baseball fans seem to abandon the sport during the playoffs if their favorite team doesn't make it. I don't think this is the same for football. People still watch the NFL playoffs even if they don't have a rooting interest.

I'd rather watch any MLB playoff game than a single Vikings game.

It's true. I'm both a football and baseball fan and watch both on TV. I would much rather watch a playoff ballgame between two teams I don't follow that up layout baseball game between two teams I don't follow. Why? Because football is better entertainment. It is more fun to watch, there is twice or three times as much action in a three-hour football game that there is a 3.5 hour baseball game, and it is "win or go home" not just a game in the series. And I'm almost 65 years old; my three sons aged 32, 30 and 28 all like both sports but are much more interested in watching a football game that a baseball game.

This is baseballs existential problem. The product is not sufficiently fast-paced or exciting for modern America. It is already way behind football, and is being passed by the NBA of all things. I hope the new rules help but what needs to happen the most is the game needs to be cut down to 2 1/2 hours or less, including breaks and commercials.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Dear Abby may turn out to be a 66 year flash in the pan, but the Buddha has had some staying power.

I have learned a lot from this thread.

You and I are too old to learn things. 

?