Carlos Correa Makes His Decision Clear

[LastOnePicked]

43 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

So the Astros need to fire their FO? They did the exact same thing with Correa last year the Twins are doing this year.

Hmm. See if you can think of any differences between the Astros and the Twins. Where they were at this point last season, their roster depth, their plan, their trajectory. Shouldn't take you too long.

[RJA]

I am not going to BBQ Correa over one Dior comment.  He shops upscale, should that surprise anyone?  He has been great this year, despite a slow start, and has shown a lot of love to the team and the community.  I think he would like to stay here, but it has to be a longer deal.  It is up to the FO to decide.  If he stays, great, we have a building block.  If he goes, we have 30 million more to spend, if the FO spends it wisely ;).  When is TD going to get the "build the roster" article out so we can start talking about/working on next year?

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, bighat said:

I think the analogy is probably what draws the vitriol. 

I've never been into a Dior store, and neither have most people reading this story. A lot of Twins fans sitting at their breakfast tables in Brainerd or Roseau or Minneapolis may not even know what Dior is. Correa reciting a metaphor that involves paying thousands for a t-shirt or hundreds of thousands for a bracelet or whatever just comes across in poor taste. 

So I disagree with you and think - for Correa's image - it was a terrible analogy. When a player who is walking away from your team talks about going shopping at the Dior store, it doesn't do him any favors. 

Personally I like Correa and hope the Twins find a way to bring him back. Don't think they will, and it's a big loss for the organization. Big hole to fill. 

This is why PR is necessary in the first place.

In the age of social media. The expectation that anyone is able to parse their words perfectly (at a moments notice) to avoid pissing people off keeps public relations professionals necessary to provide the pre-packaged watered down statements that ultimately keep us in the dark and say absolutely nothing at best and lie to us at worst. 

Here is what he should have said out the PR Handbook to avoid the criticism. 

Q: What would it take for you to stay with the Minnesota Twins?

A: I have really enjoyed my time in Minnesota, My Teammates, the coaching staff, the fans, everyone. My family and I have have felt welcome and comfortable here since the day I arrived. I will be having discussions with my agent about my future and God willing things will work out. 

And the cliche answers make us all feel better until he officially opts out and eventually signs with Philadelphia. 

We squeeze these people until the smart thing for them to do is to just shut up and then we hammer them for shutting up.

The guy answered the question honestly. Do we really have to have a problem when he compares a potentially high dollar deal to a high dollar product? 

We deserve the darkness we live in. We act horribly whenever someone turns the light on. 

. 

 

 

[PatPfund]

All the talk about what the Twins are going to do, about how they are leaving Correa dangling, about how they can't make up their mind cracks me up. Correa has a three year contract with the Twins; the team made their decision and commitment by promising $100 million plus for three years. The only decision to be made is Correa's; he has the opt out. It was always clear he was going to take it unless he was too hurt/bad for the open market, and all he did was confirm that. Glad the Twins got him, glad he came, and I won't have any hard feelings when he signs elsewhere. Great player. But...

He was healthy most of the year, and this team with him couldn't win the weakest division, or (it appears likely) even finish .500 playing a schedule loaded with teams from that weakest division. Signing him to a Seager contract doesn't fix a team that couldn't win with him, it just makes it harder to actually win.

If (when) Correa opts out, this team has serious holes to fill (#1 pitcher; either a 'hitting' catcher that actually hits, or one better defensively than either now on the roster, or both; and a strong outfield bat who can force Max and the young 'uns to fight for the third slot/ByronBackup/reserve OF). (Like some others, I laughed at the 'Lee, 5 yr' thing. Not sure he'll stick at SS, but he hit .300 across two levels of A ball, then .370 in the A and AA playoffs finishing with 3 hits in Wichita's last game. I'd bet he opens 2023 with the Wind Surge, and finishes with the Saints and an MLB taste.) The Twins can find a solid stopgap that won't win them a title by himself, but will let them add the extra talent that might get them into that neighborhood.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

In a nutshell, the quality of Twins commentary is going to reflect the team’s Win-Loss record and playoff success, regardless of platform or medium.

Bringing in new baseball operations people, new coaches, will hopefully make the team better, send them deep into the postseason, and in turn improve the quality of the site and better discussion. Some of us see all of that as interrelated, the first part being the most important part that leads to the last part. 

Sure, as long as you are mentioning the quality of the site, I will also say that I think this site was better when it was more of a hobby for a few devoted writers, than whatever it is now. But there are still great things happening on here. Why completely jump ship here for Twitter? 

Sure ... it reflects the product on the field. But some take that to a different level and use this as a dumping ground for more than just that. It's one thing to be snarky, it's quite another to be caustic and rude.

[Squirrel]

4 hours ago, bighat said:

I think the analogy is probably what draws the vitriol. 

I've never been into a Dior store, and neither have most people reading this story. A lot of Twins fans sitting at their breakfast tables in Brainerd or Roseau or Minneapolis may not even know what Dior is. Correa reciting a metaphor that involves paying thousands for a t-shirt or hundreds of thousands for a bracelet or whatever just comes across in poor taste. 

So I disagree with you and think - for Correa's image - it was a terrible analogy. When a player who is walking away from your team talks about going shopping at the Dior store, it doesn't do him any favors. 

Personally I like Correa and hope the Twins find a way to bring him back. Don't think they will, and it's a big loss for the organization. Big hole to fill. 

Okay, so let's pay our bargain price of $6 for a t-shirt. Seriously ... I've heard nothing but complaints from many, including you, about the quality of play. But ... if you want a better quality, you have to pay for it. If you want to continue shopping for your players at BargainsRus ... then what we get is what we have now. Let's shop at Dior for a change. And Cartier. And Tiffany's. We need a few of those special pieces or we will continue to have a 'last year's fashion bargain bin' team. And sure, we might even find something great there from time to time.

He was exactly right. And he knows it. He is a premium player at a premium position. We need the $1000 t-shirt there, not the $6 one. imho.

[BobAzar]

12 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Why the vitriol? He isn't doing or saying anything that wasn't expected. 

He was always going to opt-out. That was clear from Day 1. 

I thought he phrased it very well. It's actually a really good analogy, very true. 

 

Im more surprised he said this with still a week left in the season. I get it was the last home game, so more media etc and they were asking questions. but I would have thought he give more of a non-answer until the games are done. 

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

Hmm. See if you can think of any differences between the Astros and the Twins. Where they were at this point last season, their roster depth, their plan, their trajectory. Shouldn't take you too long.

At SS? The Astros decided to rely on a rookie who'd never stepped foot on a major league field before instead of extending Carlos Correa. Or are we just going to ignore that?

The Astros were/are trying to win the World Series, could have afforded Carlos Correa, but didn't extend him before or during last season. So, by your breakdown of options, they're a "driftless (sic) team." So, yeah, I'm going to stick with you just manufacturing things to be mad about because you dislike the FO and want to pile on another thing they screwed up when the reality of the situation is this is playing out the exact same way that multiple situations play out as each and every season in every major sport in America. I notice you skipped all the other examples I laid out of situations playing out the same way last year, and this very season with players at his very position.

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, bighat said:

So I disagree with you and think - for Correa's image - it was a terrible analogy.

Completely agree.  Where some are seeing clear-headed understanding of the market for elite players, I saw arrogance.  And I'm far from the camp that berates players for demanding their slice of the pie.  But he has to use common sense in defining his "brand", if he really has a grasp of the market.

This is one of the reasons players hire agents, to say the things that may need to be said.  Oh, that wicked, greedy Scott Boras, except no, he's just the mouthpiece.  Part of the agent's commission is for being The Heel in each little drama.

Carlos may not have severely damaged his value in the coming free agent market, but he didn't do it any good either.  This was a moment when he should have answered the reporter's question with platitudes.  "I love it here, I hope we can work something out."  Let Boras spell out the Dior analogy, or that the player has to feed his family, if it's needed.

[Rosterman]

Well, he wanted to enter the $300+ million club. Won't be doing that with the Twins, sadly. I doubt the Twins would even go as high as $150m for five years, which wouldn't get it done.

Not sure if the Twins will ever be able to entice a player to come here again for such a high one-time salary.

[RpR]

He said he wants the Front Office to come talk to him, nothing more.

[BH67]

8 hours ago, Beast said:

Lastly, why the hell wouldn’t you want someone to be honest?  What kind of world do we live in where people demand false tact and pomp over honesty and brass tacks.  

Local government financial matters, for one.

[umterp23]

No doubt in my mind he was opting out.  When a pretty high level player can be courted like he is the man and make as much money as he can, opt out was the answer and he gave it to us so to speak.  Reading the comments about what we do with the $30MM in savings if he is gone, a lot of assumptions/wishes that we are spending on high end pitching.  Twins FO hasn't proven they will do that, especially this year with injury laden trades and "bad luck."  Throw a number at him for 5 years, no opt outs and limited trade partners and see what happens.  Bounce Sano, Archer, Bundy and Sanchez and see what $60MM can bring back.  Then we cross our fingers that the FO makes some solid choices.  Go Twins

[Winston Smith]

6 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

When he signed the contract... his opting out was a foregone conclusion. Nothing surprising here. 

Yet... a reporter (who should have already known the answer to the question he was asking) stuck a microphone in his face and asked him what the Twins could do to keep him. 

Carlos answered the question honestly with a very apt analogy of how free agency works. 

The responses in this thread are once again another example of honesty being punished by us. 

If you ever find yourself wondering why you are being lied to, please understand that you are the reason.

Please understand that if you keep punching the truth when it shows up... it will stop showing up for the beating and it has.

Please understand that the manipulation of skilled public relations professionals, battle hardened political operatives and the researched marketing of Madison avenue is what we consistently ask for instead of the truth. 

If you can't handle the truth... you are just asking to be handled.  

 

 

 

Did you write this with Jack Nicholson's voice in your head? ?

[lukeduke1980]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Completely agree.  Where some are seeing clear-headed understanding of the market for elite players, I saw arrogance.  And I'm far from the camp that berates players for demanding their slice of the pie.  But he has to use common sense in defining his "brand", if he really has a grasp of the market.

This is one of the reasons players hire agents, to say the things that may need to be said.  Oh, that wicked, greedy Scott Boras, except no, he's just the mouthpiece.  Part of the agent's commission is for being The Heel in each little drama.

Carlos may not have severely damaged his value in the coming free agent market, but he didn't do it any good either.  This was a moment when he should have answered the reporter's question with platitudes.  "I love it here, I hope we can work something out."  Let Boras spell out the Dior analogy, or that the player has to feed his family, if it's needed.

Completely agree - read the room.  'Gosh Minnesota is nice the people are friendly we had a challenging year I've got the best agent on the planet I hope to heck we can work something out.   If not I understand baseball is a business....'

[ashbury]

7 minutes ago, lukeduke1980 said:

Completely agree - read the room.  'Gosh Minnesota is nice the people are friendly we had a challenging year I've got the best agent on the planet I hope to heck we can work something out.   If not I understand baseball is a business....'

Wait, "I hold all the cards here" ISN'T good PR?

[David Maro]

He was out the door back in August after the team started to free fall. He is good with the glove,but where is the bat. When you give someone 35m a year you should get both sides of the ball. Miranda has almost the same numbers with less at bats and way less money. If they sign him to 5-7 years this team will be stuck with a weak team around him just like the Mauer years.

[nicksaviking]

The Twins have shown they won’t do long term deals for pitchers, and they have no one to extend who’d command a hearty contract for the next few years. While unimpressive offensively, overall, they have no holes to fill other than SS and catcher.

If not Correa, than they need to sign one of the other top free agent shortstops. It likely won’t have payroll implications until four years from now, minimum. 
 

Either sign one, or roll with a 90M payroll for the foreseeable future, which despite what some fans like to think, isn’t the MO of this club. This really is a no-brainer; I think it’s fairly likely an extension does get done.

[SwainZag]

I've posted this before, but here's what I would do:

If he opts out of the final 2 years, I offer 7 years - $200M.

2023 - $35M
2024 - $35M
2025 - $26M
2026 - $26M
2027 - $26M
2028 - $26M w/player opt out
2029 - $26M w/player opt out.

Contract would still give him the original $70M for the two opt out years, but would be adding a 5 year - $130M extension on with 2 opt out years at the end of the deal.  Realistically there might be more lucrative offers out there, but I would imagine it would be somewhere in the ballpark.  It would also give him some flexibility in the last 2 years if he wanted to opt out and try for a last multi-year deal right after he turns 32.

With the current year, total contract with Twins would be 8 years, $235M which comes out to $29.375 AAV.  It's about $3M a year short of what Seager got last year.  You could always tack on some incentives to up the ante, or add $4M per year and add $20M onto the deal to put it on par.  

[KnoblauchWasFramed]

I completely expect that Correa will get the same warm reception Berrios got when he thought he entitled to a $30M a year contract.  How did that work out for him?  Right now, he's at a little over half that amount.  

It's funny to me that last season, when Correa had a better year statistically in Runs, Hits, 2Bs, HRs, RBIs, AVG., OPS, and WAR, that literally NO ONE looked to offer him even a 5 year contract that he thinks somehow the market on him has changed as he is now one year older on a "down" year (for him based on his prior years).  

Good for Corey Seager that he was able to get Texas to lock him down for 10 years, but that takes one more "large market" team off of the board.  And what about the other large market teams and their current SS options:

Mets - Francisco Lindor at $34M  

Dodgers - Trea Turner is a FA, however, a 29 year old lifetime .302 hitter that approaches 200 hits is almost guaranteed to be coming back.  

Yankees - $150M in 2023 payroll already committed to 8 players all over 30 years old next season .  That's before the Judge $35-$40M+ contract and with only one SP locked down, Gerrit Cole.  SS is a need, but what about all of the other holes that need to still be filled.  

Phillies - No clear SS for 2023, but already at a $163M payroll for 2023 and they have 5 guys already over $20M a year.  Two questions - Are they a "large market team" and would they commit to another longer term $35M contract?

Padres - Nope.

Red Sox - Are they in a rebuild?  If they don't bring back Bogaerts for $35M a year because they are not going to compete in 2023 why would they bring in Correa?  And with Trevor Story already locked down for 4 more years why not just move him back to SS if Boegaerts leaves and use that money elsewhere?  

Braves - This is the more logical match of all of the higher payroll teams if they let Dansby Swanson walk. But he has been there his whole career and is only 28 years old.  And is Correa an upgrade? 

Unfortunately, for Correa I think there is na 800 pound gorilla in the room that a lot of people seem to be forgetting about when it comes to the odd fact he didn't get ANY offer better than what the Twins could give this offseason.  He's a cheater.  Whether or not he was the ringleader or not, it's just a fact that he was involved.  And I think that clearly played a roll in the dried up market for him.  And I don't see why that would change this offseason since he is a year older and his season wasn't his best.  I honestly do not foresee him getting anything beyond a 5 year contract, at best.   With the exception of Atlanta and maybe the Phillies, all of the larger teams are looking to be spoken for.

My prediction - Boras is already feeling out all of these teams like any good agent should be doing.  And he will find that teams would be looking for maybe 3 year deals and maybe not really in the $35M range he is in now.  And, accordingly, he will take the 2nd year with the Twins and look to enter a MUCH more friendly SS free agent market in 2024.

[Steve71]

He is a terrific player in his prime.  Of course he wants a long-term contract---who wouldn't?

The Twins have every opportunity to sign him if they want to.  The question is whether they will, and it is their choice to make.

I, too, fully expected him to opt out, barring a major injury.  He earned his money, but the rest of the team fell apart around him after June 1.  He did his job, so there should not be any hard feelings, even if the average fan does not shop at Dior.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Winston Smith said:

Did you write this with Jack Nicholson's voice in your head? ?

LOL... Nah... It was more of an Al Pacino from Scarface "I always tell the truth, Even when I lie" voice in my head.  

[Einheri]

No one reasonably expected him to be a Twin in 2023 unless he got hurt or really sucked in 2022.

Good luck to him.

[TwinsChupacabra]

I guess I'm the only one that's not fired up about a cheater than went unpunished.

[chinmusic]

8 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Some of us, okay some of me, were hoping beyond hope there’d be a way he would stay, but reality was always there waiting. I’ll be sad when he goes.

"It is better to have Correa'd and lost, than to have never Correa'd at all. "

It is sad, though, that we'll never know  what might have been with a full season of Correa AND Buxton.

 

[Winston Smith]

Checked out Dior and it's about 20 times what you pay at Target. So if he just shopped at Target he wouldn't need so much money and Target is one of us.

[dex8425]

11 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

No vitriol - just business.  His signing with us was actually a shrewd roll of the dice by the FO - maybe we catch fire and wind up competing (which, btw, we did until the other not so shrewd FO’s pitching moves, Rocco’s management, bad fundamentals and injuries caught up with us).  The FO deserves a lot of applause on the CC signing for sure.

The question (certainly inevitable now given CC’s strong post contention performance) is what does the FO do? I see five possibilities:

1. Sign CC to a minimum 8 year deal @ at least $30MM per year.

2. Sign CC to a 5 year deal at closer to $40MM per year.

3. Sign a different SS to a more “reasonable” short-mid term deal.

4. Use the cash to sign FA pitching and try to compete next year with an in-house SS strategy while waiting for a home grown SS in 2024.

5. Save a lot of cash and basically “rebuild” in 2023 developing Lee or Lewis as your SS of the future.

The first three choices are possible if the FO doesn’t see a long term SS in the organization who will be ready by 2024 and a one-year in-house stop gap solution isn’t viable. However, #1 isn’t likely - not the Twins way; #2 is what I’d hope for, but not sure CC goes for it with longer term deals on the table; and #3, to really move the dial, would take another unique situation, but we’ve now seen this film a couple of times and it’s not really worked.

The last two make more sense if Lewis or Lee or someone else (Polacios or Miller perhaps) is viewed as the long-term SS. #4 is way more likely than #5 as this FO with the Pohlads support will never be in a publicly announced rebuilding mode (see our attendance numbers) and there will be a lot of cash available with CC and others moving on. And #4 could work with the right FA starter/relief pitching signings, a healthy Buxton, and another veteran FA signing like Cruz was.

So we hope for #2, but in reality #3 or #4 are more likely and could be better options anyway. Please note, however, none of these work if the FO and Rocco don’t up their games in a big way, the new young core don’t develop, the team doesn’t somehow play better fundamental baseball, and we can’t significantly cut down on the injuries. 

 

Pretty good summation of what I'm thinking as well. #2 might happen just because there aren't enough teams in the market for a long-term superstar shortstop at a high price for Swanson, Correa, Turner and Bogaerts to all get a 300+ deal. Boston? St Louis? Dodgers? Uhh...Yankees? Braves? I guess I don't see the Braves or Cardinals shelling out a 300 million dollar long-term deal. The Dodgers like flexibility too. 

[dex8425]

8 minutes ago, chinmusic said:

"It is better to have Correa'd and lost, than to have never Correa'd at all. "

It is sad, though, that we'll never know  what might have been with a full season of Correa AND Buxton.

 

We do know. Take April-May, and repeat for another four months. I believe we were on 90-95 win pace. 

[gman]

Every team needs to develop a winning team identity. The Twins will never be the Dodgers, Yankees or Red Sox when it comes to sloshing money around to try to win. Throwing 10 years and 350 million at anyone? Don't hold your breath. Teams like St Louis & Tampa Bay have got strategies that work for them. The Twins need to be closer to that mold. Correa was a drawing card for one year, that's it. Most teams won't give that much money to one player, unless they don't expect to develop good players and having a winning team for 10 years.

[dex8425]

2 hours ago, David Maro said:

He was out the door back in August after the team started to free fall. He is good with the glove,but where is the bat. When you give someone 35m a year you should get both sides of the ball. Miranda has almost the same numbers with less at bats and way less money. If they sign him to 5-7 years this team will be stuck with a weak team around him just like the Mauer years.

If 65 points of OPS difference is "almost the same" then I've got a house in Lincoln Nebraska to sell you. It's "almost the same" as a mansion on Lake Minnetonka.

 

For reference, 65 points of OPS difference is the difference between 2002 Doug Mientkiewicz and Cristian Guzman. One was an above league average hitter, the other one wasn't. Or the difference between 2008 Justin Morneau and Jason Kubel.