Baldelli needs to break up Bundy and Archer

[LVTwinsfan]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

All the Twins starters minus Archer average right around 21/22 .

Rocco actually let him go one batter longer than expected but you knew after the second hit he was gone.

So, with that logic pitchers only pitch the third time through to the top 4 in the lineup. That doesn’t sound right, but it does make the case for using an opener… At least if Pagan lays an egg in the first inning instead of the 8th the team has time to catch up.  And it’s no wonder pitchers have a higher ba against if they only pitch to the first four hitters in the line up third time through, that’s kind of a flawed stat, unless they pitch to the whole lineup 3 times.

I knew he was gone after the second hit because that’s standard procedure for almost every starter in the league to be pulled after allowing a runner to reach 2nd base in the 7th inning of a close game(it was 3-0 at the time)

[TwinsDr2021]

8 minutes ago, LVTwinsfan said:

So, with that logic pitchers only pitch the third time through to the top 4 in the lineup. That doesn’t sound right, but it does make the case for using an opener… At least if Pagan lays an egg it’s the first inning instead of the 8th and the team has time to catch up.

I knew he was gone after the second hit because that’s standard procedure for almost every starter in the league to be pulled after allowing a runner to reach 2nd base in the 7th inning of a close game(it was 3-0 at the time)

Ryan is at 22.15 batters faced a game.

Gray is at 20.39, but if you remove the start he got hurt it goes to 21.18

Bundy is at 20.8

Both of Mahle's starts have been 22.

Smeltzer's 12 starts is at 21.33.

Ryan has only pitched to less than 20 batters 3 times in 19 starts.

Gray has only pitched to less than 20 batters 3 times and one was the start he was injured with only 7.

Bundy has pitched to 18 or less 6 times in 20 starts

Smeltzer pitched to 19 or less batters 3 times.

 

 

 

[Trov]

The issue I see is that even if Bundy or Archer is doing fine, Rocco pulls them after 4 or 5 innings based on how many times through order, or what the game score is.  He pulls them for our better pen pitchers in fear they will blow the lead quickly.  This is not just for them though.  Bundy is around 5 innings per start, Archer around 4.  But Ryan and Gray are both averaging basically 5 as well.  Yes, Rocco will let them go 6 sometimes, but really, everyone has a "short" leash in Rocco world.  

[Number3]

Didn't read every post but the general idea that Rocco needs to change his pitching staff management in what is now crunch time is obvious. The flip side is that if the offense doesn't produce more than 1 or 2 runs it makes no difference anyway. Changing the rotation order couldn't hurt followed by letting starters pitch out of their own jams. All I know is that they need to complete the KC sweep today and do better than a split against Texas (who just fired their manager by the way Rocco.) Then the fun really starts for the rest of August, all of September and hopefully still into October.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

All the Twins starters minus Archer average right around 21/22 batters faced a game, maybe that has more to do with Rocco trying to get them to end an inning. Look at Gray last night he was right on his average of 22.

The issue with averaging 21/22 is that you have to be damn near perfect to pitch 6 innings. In a normal 5 innings that is the 15 guys you get out give up a four hits and a walk and you are at 20. Most of the time that gets you taken out after 5.

If in this scenario if you have a low pitch count and haven't given up a run, you may come out for the 6th, but you have to know you likely will be taken out if a runner gets on. If the batter after a guy gets on is left handed (since all the Twins starters are right handed) you gone for sure.

If you are watching the game and follow this logic, you will be right over 90% of the time on when Rocco's pulls the starter. Last night Gray was at 20 batters faced 80 some pitches, you knew he was coming out for the 7th because he he was at 20 batters faced and a right handed hitter due up then two lefties, The only way he finishes the 7th is being perfect, Rocco actually let him go one batter longer than expected but you knew after the second hit he was gone.

Agreed, Thielbar put the fire out without a run scored, that was the first time I can remember in a looong time, that an inherited runner didn’t score.

Rocco does everything he can to avoid mid-inning reliever changes because inherited runners score so frequently. They don’t have that rubber-armed fireman to get you out of a jam.

Sands was effective last night for the 9th, but I think he’d be better served piggy backing with Archer to get the two of them through 7 or 8 innings on a schedule.

[Bigfork Twins Guy]

I like this approach Brock (and John), but I question why Twins management have not thought of this?  Did they come up with it and reject it and if so why?  Did they not think of it which IMO is unbelievable given that it is their job to think outside the box?  I guess if we see a mix up in the rotation in the near future my latter two questions will be answered.

[rv78]

Splitting Bundy and Archer would possibly gain you 1 inning of rest for the bullpen every turn thru the rotation if nothing else changed. Letting Gray, Ryan, Mahle, and Bundy all pitch 1 more inning when they are pitching well, would create 4 more innings of rest. That would be the better move.

[bean5302]

8 hours ago, h2oface said:

That didn't age well.

It aged just fine.

I'll take 2-1/2 months of track record on Badelli making the quick hook on Gray over a single game. Maybe the Twins have changed their philosophy? It's possible.

[Eris]

Instead of splitting Archer and Bundy up, why not have them pitch in the same game. If we are lucky the two of then will pitch the entire game and the bullpen gets a rest. 
 

the problem with this suggestion is that we would need another starter 

[GopherJeff]

I would move Archer to long relief. Let him pitch after the SP (assuming they're still out there) has been through the lineup twice. Archer is not an "innings eater" as a SP so having him pitch 2 innings (5th-6th or 6th-7th, typically) makes sense before going with the 1 inning crew.

[JD-TWINS]

We’re 12 days from Roster Expansion!

Maeda - Smeltzer - Winder - Ober…….not Varland, just got to Triple A……all need to be on the roster (less Pagan) if they want them for playoffs. If it’s two of them & Moran I would be tickled!

Start Bundy 1-4 innings and Smeltzer throws 5-7 innings………..next day Archer throws 4 and Winder throws into the 8th. Problem solved on PAPER!!

MAHLE is now our problem guy with “dead arm” heading down the stretch. Maybe we should have let him throw into the 7th both starts and he would be toughened up……,..

[LVTwinsfan]

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

We’re 12 days from Roster Expansion!

Maeda - Smeltzer - Winder - Ober…….not Varland, just got to Triple A……all need to be on the roster (less Pagan) if they want them for playoffs. If it’s two of them & Moran I would be tickled!

Start Bundy 1-4 innings and Smeltzer throws 5-7 innings………..next day Archer throws 4 and Winder throws into the 8th. Problem solved on PAPER!!

MAHLE is now our problem guy with “dead arm” heading down the stretch. Maybe we should have let him throw into the 7th both starts and he would be toughened up……,..

New rule.They are only allowed 28 on expanded rosters, 29 on double header days

[LVTwinsfan]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:36 AM, bean5302 said:

It aged just fine.

It really didnt