4 Veteran Players the Twins Can Trade

[big dog]

Trade Sano, sure. Probably for an A-ball medium prospect.

Trade Kepler, worth discussing, though a Larnach/Celestino (or Gordon)/Kiriloff outfield seems like quite a downgrade on the days Buxton is out.

Assuming Correa's contract even allows him to be traded, and assuming we had anyone else who could play a great shortstop and hit 300 or so, trading him now would probably end all hope of ever getting a big-time free agent here. What kind of signal does this send to the future marketplace?

Other than those small concerns, I have no problem with it.

 

[chpettit19]

32 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

I would assume Correa is off the table unless someone decides to overpay.  The Twins showed this past season they were willing to make multiple moves to improve the team.  With Lewis getting hurt its much less likely,  but not completely unfeasible or unthinkable.  I think you are too focused on what teams are willing to give up in trades rather than what the Twins would be willing to accept.  I think the Twins would prefer this trade deadline to be a wild wild west of trades.  

My expectations of this deadline are I really have no clue in what direction they want to go right now.   This series against Cleveland will tell us better what type of team we have.  I will be cheering them on Thursday with my family.  

This post is about veteran players the Twins could trade while improving their pitching depth for this season. Why would what the Twins could get back not be the focus? This post wasn't about whether or not the Twins would be willing to trade these players, or any players, but was about veterans at "positions of strength" that could be dealt for "pitching depth." Responding that they couldn't get good pitching depth back for these players is focusing on what the post was about.

The author presented the topic as improving a contending Twins 2022 team by trading veterans for veterans. Your, or my, opinion on where they may go is of no factor on the topic presented by the author. He didn't say the Twins may trade veterans if they fall back and don't think they can contend, he said "As the calendar gets closer to July, Minnesota's roster looks like it will need more pitching depth to stay at the top of the AL Central." My contention is that trading anyone on this list at the deadline wouldn't improve the 2022 team overall, or, in a couple of the cases, the Twins pitching depth in any meaningful way, and laid out why I thought that.

[RpR]

6 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

If we are looking to improve we do not trade our best player who fills a critical defensive hole.  Everything looked good until Correa.  This might have worked if Lewis was available, but not now - Palacios and Gordon do not fill that spot and thus we go backwards trying to go forward.  

Package the rest of them and get that pitcher.  It is a nice haul for a team like Oakland. 

Better pitcher, lousy defense, brilliant!

[Brandon]

I’m in the don’t trade Correa camp.  I would like to see an 8 year 280 million extension for him.  Or 9 year 300 million if that 300 number is that important.  They could get creative and frontload the contract while these rookies are pre arbitration and go down in years 5-7 when everyone salary rises, then go back up at the end….

Kepler and Urshala are high floor guys who contribute.  I would rather they be on the roster and rotated to a platoon/ bench role if someone can consistently outplay them.  We can trade them in the offseason.  
 

I am sad about Sano.  I really wanted to see him, Kepler and Polanco combine to hit 1000 HRs for the Twins in their careers.  They are close to 400 right now.  Just a couple of big years from everyone and we are almost there…..

we could trade Duffey and Theilbar as change of scenery trade.  
 

I am not opposed to trading anyone just that we are in contention and you go with the team you have and try to supplement the roster.

[Cap'n Piranha]

I find it unlikely as of right now that the Twins would trade veterans.  If they do, Urshela is the only real candidate because he has both the extra year of control (to up the return), and the ease of replacement (Arraez or Miranda).  You could trade Kepler, but you're then counting on 3 rookies (Kiriloff, Larnach, Celestino) to hold down your corner outfield in a pennant race and postseason.  You could trade Sanchez, but he's a FA after this year, and Jeffers as your lead catcher is problematic.

As such, I think it's much more likely the Twins swing a couple small deals at the deadline for relief help, unless something crazy falls in their lap.  This offseason is where there could be a lot of movement though--I would not be shocked to see the Twins trade Polanco, Urshela, and Kepler, while walking away from Sanchez, Sano, and Correa.  They could then have the payroll space to bring in 2 stars (Trea Turner and Carlos Rodon?), or do a lot of Polanco/Kepler style deals for their current pre-arb group (Arraez, Ryan, Winder, Larnach, Kiriloff, and Lewis could all be locked up for a sum total of $30M to $40m a year).

[rwilfong86]

Sano yes, the others, nah. 

[RpR]

Lets see how Sano does with the Saints for rehab; he might do just as Kirilloff has done, exceed for the Saints and lousy for the Twins.

[roger]

One of the Twins strengths this year is their improved defense.  Suggesting they trade Urshela, Keps and Correa would put a brutal defensive team on the field, especially all those games when Buxton is either DH or on the bench...brutal.  No to trading any of those three.

[chinmusic]

7 hours ago, tonderk said:

Please just let me enjoy our one year with Correa. I don’t think anyone is dealing anything worth giving him up. 

Yeah. It's a pleasure having him on the Twins. And depending on how this season plays out, 2022 may not be the end of the line.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I find it unlikely as of right now that the Twins would trade veterans.  If they do, Urshela is the only real candidate because he has both the extra year of control (to up the return), and the ease of replacement (Arraez or Miranda).  You could trade Kepler, but you're then counting on 3 rookies (Kiriloff, Larnach, Celestino) to hold down your corner outfield in a pennant race and postseason.  You could trade Sanchez, but he's a FA after this year, and Jeffers as your lead catcher is problematic.

As such, I think it's much more likely the Twins swing a couple small deals at the deadline for relief help, unless something crazy falls in their lap.  This offseason is where there could be a lot of movement though--I would not be shocked to see the Twins trade Polanco, Urshela, and Kepler, while walking away from Sanchez, Sano, and Correa.  They could then have the payroll space to bring in 2 stars (Trea Turner and Carlos Rodon?), or do a lot of Polanco/Kepler style deals for their current pre-arb group (Arraez, Ryan, Winder, Larnach, Kiriloff, and Lewis could all be locked up for a sum total of $30M to $40m a year).

I'd be surprised if they traded Polanco, but I think your timeline makes more sense than trading any of these guys in the middle of a pennant chase. I'd like them to take a shot at signing those pre-arb guys to 7 year deals and pairing that with a Correa 7 year deal. I don't think there's much of a chance they do that as they really value their flexibility (and I don't expect them to extend Correa), but if they could have their whole core locked up for 7 years of cost certainty they'd be in a pretty good spot. Just a lot of pressure on those young guys to turn into who they expect/hope they are. But, generally speaking, I think the offseason is when we see them make bigger decisions on players. The trade deadline is more likely to be small deals for relief pitchers.

[Johnny Ringo]

The 3 most likely things to happen this season:

-- Sano is traded for anything helping the team this year or any other;

-- Correa is signed to a mega long-term contract with the Twins;

-- Jessica Alba asks me to dinner and picks up the tab.

Of the three, the last one could happen. She misdials and in her embarrassment, she surrenders the American Express black card. 

If you want to compete in 2022, trading Correa makes zero sense. WAR is WAR and any other of the Twins' replacement alternatives at shortstop would be replacement at best. Is anyone going to give you that value in a pitcher for a free agent like Carlos? I think not. Only if the team tanks before the trade deadline, should a Correa trade be considered. 

That being said, it has been an absolute pleasure watching the guy play. He is terrific in every regard.   

 

 

[JimPohlad1]

If you can trade Miguel Sano for a pair of pants and you don’t have to pay any money to pant’s owner do it.

[Rosterman]

Kepler might be worth something.

I sure wish we had included Sano in the Padres deal and gotten, say, Hosmer and one of their rookie catchers, as well as CASH.

[bean5302]

7 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

...If they do, Urshela is the only real candidate because he has both the extra year of control (to up the return), and the ease of replacement (Arraez or Miranda)...

Except Urshela might not net much at all. I honestly expect Urshela will non-tendered at the end of the season rather than get a salary at $9+ MM in his 3rd arbitration year. He's rocking 0.1 fWAR and 0.5 bWAR right now with a wRC+ 100 and OPS+ 102. 

That's not the kind of help contenders are clamoring for.

[Mark G]

I am getting used to being a minority voice on TD, so I might as well take a shot here.    

I can't believe we haven't had discussions with Boras about a possible long term deal for Correa and what he would want to take it to that next level.  If, by late July, we don't have a good feel for being able to get this done, and an offer comes along that helps the pitching staff, it might be the best move for now to move him.  We forget sometimes that Urshela has played short before in the bigs and is a pretty decent defender.  We move him to short, Miranda to 3rd, DFA Sano and play Kirilloff and Arraez at 1st with kirilloff in the outfield when necessary and Arraez spelling Polanco once in a while.  Pick up Urshela's option and pencil him in at short next year until Lewis comes back (which it sounds like will be mid season).

For the record, my first hope is we sign Correa long term.  It would prove we are all in and might convince other free agents to come, kind of like when we had Cruz the first year or two.  But if we decide not to put the money and the years out there that it will take, now would be the time, not waiting for him to opt out, because every year he waits is one less year on the career long term deal he will get, or one more chance to get hurt before he gets it; he isn't going to go year to year here.  Boras won't allow it.  Throw in one good prospect as well and we could get a return that would help the pitching staff get us over the hump in a pretty weak division and help in October.  But, again, it all boils down to can we sign Correa long term, and, if not, what is the return coming back?  Otherwise keep the team intact; I don't see anyone else bringing a return worth the breakup. 

[PatPfund]

This is a worthwhile exercise, not because you get a starter for, say, Gio, but because you should consider veteran elements to a deal with prospects. Still....

This only identifies two veterans; you are not trading Correa unless you are a seller, and as many have pointed out, Sano has negative value, and has no time to create some.

Polanco and Arraez and Buxton are more likely to be traded than Correa right now (and probably Jorge could make the 'vets to trade' list). Though it is likely a partner will want more prospects than vets, as someone pointed out, that isn't all (as Cruz for Ryan proved last season). But unless it involves getting a pitcher to slot in the top half of the rotation, I'm not super interested in 'pitching depth'. 

That isn't going to win a playoff series.

[MABB1959]

17 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

"As the calendar gets closer to July, Minnesota's roster looks like it will need more pitching depth to stay at the top of the AL Central."

They have the $$$ to get a player w/o trading anyone.  They also should have the $$$ to make Correa an offer he can't resist even if they overpay for now.  Sick and tired of them getting rid of players I enjoy watching.

[mickster]

Prospects will be the way to an impact deal.   Kepler/Urhela may get you a reliever rental.     Martin and Miranda may get the A's or Reds talking

 

[ScottyB]

Trade Sano, Duffey and Theilbar just to clear space on the 40 man. Don’t have to get much, one or two low level prospects. Scour the wire for relief pitchers.

[MN_ExPat]

17 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I find it unlikely as of right now that the Twins would trade veterans.  If they do, Urshela is the only real candidate because he has both the extra year of control (to up the return), and the ease of replacement (Arraez or Miranda).  You could trade Kepler, but you're then counting on 3 rookies (Kiriloff, Larnach, Celestino) to hold down your corner outfield in a pennant race and postseason.  You could trade Sanchez, but he's a FA after this year, and Jeffers as your lead catcher is problematic.

As such, I think it's much more likely the Twins swing a couple small deals at the deadline for relief help, unless something crazy falls in their lap.  This offseason is where there could be a lot of movement though--I would not be shocked to see the Twins trade Polanco, Urshela, and Kepler, while walking away from Sanchez, Sano, and Correa.  They could then have the payroll space to bring in 2 stars (Trea Turner and Carlos Rodon?), or do a lot of Polanco/Kepler style deals for their current pre-arb group (Arraez, Ryan, Winder, Larnach, Kiriloff, and Lewis could all be locked up for a sum total of $30M to $40m a year).

Good point. 

Although, IF Correa decides not to opt out after the season (and considering his current contract with the Twins he has a really good safety net to bargain from a position of strength with the league) I think we can all agree that the Twins and the FO will welcome him back with open arms and not walk away from him.

[Mark G]

51 minutes ago, MN_ExPat said:

Good point. 

Although, IF Correa decides not to opt out after the season (and considering his current contract with the Twins he has a really good safety net to bargain from a position of strength with the league) I think we can all agree that the Twins and the FO will welcome him back with open arms and not walk away from him.

Correct me if I am wrong, but they have no choice!    At least for two more years.  And I'm glad they don't.  

[bustedstuff88]

Author lost all credibility when they suggested CC as a trade candidate 

[joefish]

Urshella and Kepler for Snell and and a prospect. Miranda to 3b. Polanco to dh every day.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, ScottyB said:

Cut Sano, Duffey and Theilbar just to clear space on the 40 man.

Fixed that, because you aren't getting anything in return by trade for any of these players, unfortunately.

[RpR]

53 minutes ago, joefish said:

Urshella and Kepler for Snell and and a prospect. Miranda to 3b. Polanco to dh every day.

And the Twins defense goes down the toilet with the won-loss record.

[joefish]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

And the Twins defense goes down the toilet with the won-loss record.

I don't see Arraez as a downgrade over Ploanco at 2b. Urshella makes some great plays, but not all of the plays. Miranda may hit as well as Urshella, and his defense is still a bit unknown, but they sold it to us as he was moving up through the system. Urshella would bring us more in trade. A switch-hitting dh seems perfect to me.

[Rosterman]

No team is going to trade for Correa unless you pretty much eat the rest of his salary for this season. Unless they honestly think he is worth going after long term and trading for him will give them one-up on ree agency.

Would you pay Sano $13 million for next season? Hey, you put him on waivers, another team claims him. They release him. And you sign him abck for 2023 for $3-5 million, if you still truly want him.

Who plays the Twins outfield in 2023? Better yet, 2024? Celestino is good, but he isn't great. You would love to say he is heir to Buxton in center with Byron moving to a corner spot. But I don't think we signed Byron for $100 million to have him leave centerfield in the next year or two. I don't see the Twins signing Kepler to another long-term contract, but another team might.....

Urshela? If you trade him this season, he still has another at a decent price for a rebuilding team. Depends how much faith you have in Miranda, getting his at bats are so important this season. Otherwise, Steer? Encarnacion-Strand? Miranda until someone other comes along?

Gio and Kepler can dangle at trade time. You have replacements who look to improve for the team in 2023.

[Major League Ready]

I can't recall any examples of a good veteran position player being traded for a veteran position player at the deadline in the past 20 years.  Can anyone else site an example of such a trade?  Isn't the whole idea rather unrealistic?

Urshela could definitely be moved to make room for Miranda / Steer but it won't be for a veteran player.  Sano will be traded if they can find anyone to take him to keep Kirilloff at 1B and that won't be for a veteran either. 

[dxpavelka]

Teams with assets that contending teams desire are not trading for mid level bats.

[SkyBlueWaters]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:11 AM, Mark G said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but they have no choice!    At least for two more years.  And I'm glad they don't. 

Correa has a clause saying he can block a trade to 5 teams.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/minnesota-twins/

Once he names the teams, they can trade him to others--but I agree, trading Correa would be a bad idea this year. He is too crucial to our lineup and our defense.

I can't remember a deeper Twins team than our everyday roster (even as Miranda, Kiriloff are under-performing). Up and down our lineups, this team can hurt you--our depth is fun to see! And Correa as a leader is crucial.

We have depth elsewhere that can be dealt.