What To Do With Miguel Sano

[Stew]

All of us knew ahead of time everything you were going to say about sano. It's the same every year. But next year he gets 14 million. We can not wait the money. So here's my idea. Wait and see if a contending nation league team needs a dh. Find someone who will trade us a defensive 1 st baseman. Sano led the team with 15 errors last year. Maybe that improves the team.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

7 minutes ago, Stew said:

All of us knew ahead of time everything you were going to say about sano. It's the same every year. But next year he gets 14 million. We can not wait the money. So here's my idea. Wait and see if a contending nation league team needs a dh. Find someone who will trade us a defensive 1 st baseman. Sano led the team with 15 errors last year. Maybe that improves the team.

Sano needs to heat up well before the all-star break to be tradeable at the deadline. Provided that happens (and I think it will), I agree, it’s almost a certainty that Sano gets traded to a contender who needs a DH. That is the MO of Falvey and Levine, if they aren’t extending or picking up his option, they trade them away.

[puckstopper1]

3 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

There is no doubt that patience has run out on Sano for Twins fans.  The current situation is just exacerbated more with the continuing wrist problems of Kirilloff. 

I disagree with the take that you can't bench Sano for the likes of Miranda.  Get Miranda up to the Twins and in the lineup consistently.  It was already a huge risk to have BOTH Sano and Gary Sanchez in the lineup at the same time, especially hitting in any proximately to each other.  Twins fans have seen enough.  it's time the front office did.  Package him in a deal to Colorado where he can DH and hit 80 HR's every season.  

Totally agree Top.  If Kirilloff was healthy there is no doubt that Sano should be benched.  a significant chunk of his at bats this year have been against lefties so at best he is a platoon.

Other teams make adjustments as to how they pitch Sano and it seems to take him a long time to adjust.

In general I'm tired of seeing Big Whiff flailing away at the plate and killing rallies.

[Platoon]

1 hour ago, CRF said:

He's a lot more than frustrating to watch...he's annoying. Every pitcher in the league knows to throw it a foot outside, or in the dirt, and he'll swing at it. Sure, every once in a while, someone makes a mistake and throws him a cookie for him to hit in the 3rd deck. That's what makes him have at least some value. I think the best possible solution is to trade him. They should have done it already, because he's been the same player ever since he came up. He's not going to all of a sudden learn what pitches to swing at, or lay off of. He has no plate discipline or plan up there. Just swing as hard as he can every time. He is what he is. You can't just release him, and sending him back to triple A probably does nothing. He's not going to get it. With Kirilloff gone, there's not really a guy we can plug in there either. I'd bet we're stuck with him for the rest of this season, and then...who knows? 

The other problem is when does he launch these cookies into the stratosphere? Hitting something 485’ late in a close game is impressive. Hitting one like that when way ahead or behind off the #5 reliever in someone’s pen has no value whatsoever. 
 

There’s enough mediocre pitching in baseball for Sano to get his fill of cookies by the end of the season. But, good pitchers who execute get him out too often, too easily, and with little chance of even an RBI groundout. He remains my #1 choice to pitch against with the game on the line. I would rather see him up there than Arreaz, Polanco, or Buxton. 

[PDX Twin]

I made this comment a week ago on another thread, so apologies for repeating, but it's relevant here. Rod Carew was in the booth for a couple of innings of a spring game and commented on Arraez (very complementary) and Sano. He basically cut off discussion of Sano saying something to the effect of "He doesn't follow our advice, he just goes up and swings as hard as he can."

[Dave The Dastardly]

33 minutes ago, deanlambrecht said:

I think you just missed the "Cut him" section of the article, which perfectly explains why the Twins won't be able to send him to the minors.  Bottom line, he's out of "options," which means that we can't send him down without exposing him to other teams.

"Exposing" Sano will take a big trench coat, but I believe other teams won't even want to take a look.

[USNMCPO]

The way the Twins play a completely useless player like Sano seems to indicate that team losses in April-June don't mean anything. Last I heard, the losses and wins are added up for the whole year to determine how well the team did. It is always a rinse, repeat, repeat again situation with Sano. He just isn't that good the way he plays. He gets better later but that is not worthwhile in the long run. They need to find a way tome on from him or put him on the bench. When he was demoted to A+ Fort Myers a few years ago, he turned it around. Maybe he needs to be humbled to get in the right mindset. Maybe, he just is what he is and won't change. How many losses can the team withstand with a giant hole in the lineup?

[USAFChief]

3 hours ago, ToeJoe said:

The article did a poor job explaining why the Twins cannot send Sano to the minors.  Earlier in his career Sano was sent down.  Why, exactly, is it different now?  

Players with at least 5 years of MLB service time cannot be optioned to the minor leagues without their consent. Sano has just over 6 years service time. 

 

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/minor-league-options

 

Edit: that's from the previous CBA but I'm reasonably certain this restriction remains in effect.

[joefish]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

The analytics game and launch angle are not Miguel's friend. If only he could keep his bat level through the zone ....

Vladdy Jr. strikes out a ton but his bat is level through the zone and he crushes more than he misses because of the mathematics of a level versus launch angle swing. Jorge Polanco may need some launch angle to hit a long ball but Sano only needs to hit the ball for it to disappear.

Miguel needs help from the Launch Angel. Maybe try praying.

[saviking]

4 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

 

I'm not a hitting instructor but here is what I have noticed over the past several years. 

Miguel has a big swing that creates massive home runs when he connects but, pitchers have found ways to keep him off balance. Particularly sliders on the outside part of the plate. Miguel will commit, recognize and try to pull back his swing but it is too late as his bat passes the plate. 

So every year after a long a grueling slump Miguel listens to his hitting instructors shortens his swing and tries to drive the ball to right center field. This helps give him more time to recognize the pitch. I would go a step further and have him swing a slightly heavier bat to slow his swing down a tad telling him his one and only goal is to make solid contact. 

Like a golfer Miguel does not need to swing hard. All he needs to do is make solid contact and the rest will take care of himself.

So, when you're watching the games in the future and the announcers start talking about Miguel trying to swing to right field remember you heard it hear first. And that will get him out of his slump.

But why Miguel won't listen and implement before he insures a slump I will never know. That is not a physical attribute, that is a mental stubborn attribute and is the reason that when he starts hitting again I would trade is ass ... I don't enjoy watching undisciplined players, but that's just me ..

[GeorgiaBaller]

2 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

it's been six games. His babip is .000, it's usually over .300. If he had those three hits, he'd be closer to Kepler's line. Relax. His line will probably be very similar to last year. 

Kepler only is playing because his Defense is spectacular.  Otherwise, his slumps are too long to make his streaks tolerable.  He refuses to hit the other direction, like he did for the one best season at the plate, so he remains limited.   But---Sano is not a plus player at first----just a streaky hitter with pretty good power.  He's a poor DH creating a liability at 1st---and worse---unreliable due to injury regularly. 

Please quit thinking he is going to develop some additional skills and be something different.  He is who he is---he's already played 7 seasons!  He has proven who he is,  You can tell there is a smokescreen by the organization for him by the commentary Justin Morneau spewed the other night on the game broadcast about how good an athlete he is for his size and how much potential there is with his power.  Please.   If you have to continue to make the case for someone EVERY SEASON, they are not worth it.  Miguel is your buddy from childhood that always has an issue of some kind---and you have to justify to your wife why he should be given a break over and over again.  

Each the guy.  Play him every 3rd game.   Every player on the field needs to earn their spot---as far as i know he's not the owner's kid that the coach has to make a spot for.  Quit the special treatment.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, baul0010 said:

Stick him at 1B.  Watch him play mediocre defense.  

I wish he played mediocre defense. I'm ready to make Arraez the first baseman.

[GeorgiaBaller]

27 minutes ago, saviking said:

I'm not a hitting instructor but here is what I have noticed over the past several years. 

Miguel has a big swing that creates massive home runs when he connects but, pitchers have found ways to keep him off balance. Particularly sliders on the outside part of the plate. Miguel will commit, recognize and try to pull back his swing but it is too late as his bat passes the plate. 

So every year after a long a grueling slump Miguel listens to his hitting instructors shortens his swing and tries to drive the ball to right center field. This helps give him more time to recognize the pitch. I would go a step further and have him swing a slightly heavier bat to slow his swing down a tad telling him his one and only goal is to make solid contact. 

Like a golfer Miguel does not need to swing hard. All he needs to do is make solid contact and the rest will take care of himself.

So, when you're watching the games in the future and the announcers start talking about Miguel trying to swing to right field remember you heard it hear first. And that will get him out of his slump.

But why Miguel won't listen and implement before he insures a slump I will never know. That is not a physical attribute, that is a mental stubborn attribute and is the reason that when he starts hitting again I would trade is ass ... I don't enjoy watching undisciplined players, but that's just me ..

Frank Thomas has said multiple times he went out to make good contact, barrel up and hit line drives.  He never swung to hit a home run. If he hit home runs, it was incidental to good contact.  When you are big man with strength and good bat speed, its not necessary to have an upswing to hit the avg 23hr's Sano produces.  He would hit them anyways.  But, as you alluded to, he is not mentally disciplined to listen or stay in shape a whole year and give his joints a break with less LBs to carry.  why should he?  He gets a paycheck and plays regardless.  

[MABB1959]

It's been 6 games and except for a few the team as a whole is nothing to brag about.  Against LA the twins had 6 total hits.  If you are going to bench him or trade him send Kepler with him.

[PatPfund]

I agree we are probably stuck with Sano for the year, because of everything the article said. But I disagree about Sano needing ABs to work through this; he pretty much does his thing until his job is threatened (one year getting sent down; last year being effectively benched), and then he seems to adapt. 

So bat him ninth when he is in the order, and start taking him out of the order as soon as you can figure out an alternative. Or even if there isn't a great alternative. Bring up a minor leaguer to play at first (though having seen some of the Saints this year, Miranda has looked a little rough at 1B). See if Urshela can do it, opening up more playing time for Arraez. Work the free agent/trade market. Anything to plausibly make it look as if Sano is being bypassed. Because that is the only time he turns it on.

(FYI, I don't think it is a "caring" thing. He is in great shape and playing pretty good D because of that. He has a pretty good eye, and a low chase rate. But he might just not be good enough to hit the pitches in the zone on a consistent basis, or he refuses to take advice on how to be more consistent, or a bit of both. Either way, and garbage time stats that make him look 'above average' aside, I hope he is not around after this year.)

[BD57]

Sano should be a 4 - 5 spot hitter.

Unfortunately, he hits nothing but air too often when he swings - combination of obvious holes in his swing & inability to lay off 2-strike breaking balls out of the zone (esp. from RH pitchers).

I don't know if it's a matter of timing or what - maybe Sano's better later in the year because the wear & tear of the season leads to more "mistake pitches" being thrown to him.

IMO, Sano needs to spend time with and listen to Rod Carew - I think Sano's strong enough that more focus on "bat to ball" wouldn't detract significantly from power.

[Trov]

He is who he is.  We know who he is.  You either play him or cut him.  Sitting him does nothing.  He has always been a guy on long slumps and long hot streaks.  He will never make the changes we all want.  Personally I am for cutting him to give Arraez more playing time, but do not just bench him. 

[dex8425]

1 hour ago, saviking said:

I'm not a hitting instructor but here is what I have noticed over the past several years. 

Miguel has a big swing that creates massive home runs when he connects but, pitchers have found ways to keep him off balance. Particularly sliders on the outside part of the plate. Miguel will commit, recognize and try to pull back his swing but it is too late as his bat passes the plate. 

So every year after a long a grueling slump Miguel listens to his hitting instructors shortens his swing and tries to drive the ball to right center field. This helps give him more time to recognize the pitch. I would go a step further and have him swing a slightly heavier bat to slow his swing down a tad telling him his one and only goal is to make solid contact. 

Like a golfer Miguel does not need to swing hard. All he needs to do is make solid contact and the rest will take care of himself.

So, when you're watching the games in the future and the announcers start talking about Miguel trying to swing to right field remember you heard it hear first. And that will get him out of his slump.

But why Miguel won't listen and implement before he insures a slump I will never know. That is not a physical attribute, that is a mental stubborn attribute and is the reason that when he starts hitting again I would trade is ass ... I don't enjoy watching undisciplined players, but that's just me ..

Sano himself was actually talking about his hitting approach this spring, during a ST radio broadcast. He says he was talking to Nelson cruz every day and trying to think right-right center and keep his hands farther forward to create a shorter swing. Clearly his adjustments worked in ST and haven't been working so far in games that count. Sano knows what to do, and so do his coaches, but hitting is pretty hard. 

[Einheri]

Convert him to a pitcher.  No hits after 19 at bats would look fantastic.

[USAFChief]

9 minutes ago, Einheri said:

Convert him to a pitcher.  No hits after 19 at bats would look fantastic.

Not to mention the K rate wouldn't be too shabby either!!

[Loops]

Having half a year of "bad" Sano to have potentially (hopefully!) half a year of "good" Sano is painful. We trade so many players some of whom I wish they had not, but I wish we had traded Sano. It is the same every year. By the time he comes around we are out of playoff contention. People see his monster home runs and wonder how we can get rid of him. Too inconsistent for me. Put the pitcher in to bat right now and you would have pretty much the same results.

[CRF]

He got one of those cookies! Sano just put one over the green monster for a 2 run jack! 

[minman1982]

Got to love that Sano hits a 2 run homer in his first at bat today.  Looks like the 0-21 to start a season is going to have to wait until next year.  Then he backs it up by WALKING in his next plate appearance.

[ashbury]

5 hours ago, deanlambrecht said:

we can't send him down without exposing him to other teams.

If you mean his strikeoutitis is infectious, exposing him to other teams could be a smart strategy.

[4twinsJA]

What is the bar for Sano? 40 HRs, .240 BA, K rate 33% (MLB ave. was 24% last year). Is a 2 run HR, 2 Ks, and a walk a good game?

[Rosterman]

I almost wish we had included him in the Padres deal and took Hosmer. Throw in Sanchez and get their catcher Campusano. And we also take Myers salary and give them Cave as an option for the season. And not send them any monies.

 

[dxpavelka]

prolly a good thing we're not counting on Kiriloff to take his spot

[dxpavelka]

1 hour ago, 4twinsJA said:

What is the bar for Sano? 40 HRs, .240 BA, K rate 33% (MLB ave. was 24% last year). Is a 2 run HR, 2 Ks, and a walk a good game?

yes

[baul0010]

7 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I wish he played mediocre defense. I'm ready to make Arraez the first baseman.

I'd like that.  That could be a good spot for him 

[Linus]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:59 AM, PDX Twin said:

I made this comment a week ago on another thread, so apologies for repeating, but it's relevant here. Rod Carew was in the booth for a couple of innings of a spring game and commented on Arraez (very complementary) and Sano. He basically cut off discussion of Sano saying something to the effect of "He doesn't follow our advice, he just goes up and swings as hard as he can."

Yea Rod specifically mentioned they recommend that he have a little more knee bend in his stance in order to keep his head from moving down during the swing. He won’t do it. To me this is typical of Sano and the real reason to be worried. He’s done this how many times yet we don’t change anything.