What’s the status here? Could we please get Big Mike signed before nothing’s left out there? Everyone in baseball is in the hunt for the A’s pitchers, which probably means we won’t get either. If Chi Chi Gonzolez is the best we can do, I’d feel safer with Pineda. We also need a shortstop ASAP.

Chi Chi is cannon fodder

A Big Mike reunion wouldn't be bad. You would have to be Ga ga to think  that Chi Chi is more than just frou frou or adds good ju ju to our pitching staff.

Why? Is he really that good? Healthy?

There's literally 90 pitchers I would've rather had than Pineda, but now no one is left. Stop worrying about outwaiting Story and Pineda and offer them a contract they will actually take. 

Can we get Trevor Bauer?! Lol. 

Would Pineda pitch more innings or be better than Drew Strotman?

Pineda did a decent job for us. Not overwhelming but decent so I'm ok with Big Mike but my impatience for farm raised pitching is getting in the way of that OK'ness with Big Mike. 

If the Twins fail to trade for one of the Oakland arms... I'd rather not see the rotation cluttered with the typical middle priced free agents on one year contracts. That way a clear path is there for upcoming youth with the potential to be better than the typical middle priced free agents on one year contracts. 

36 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? Is he really that good? Healthy?

Is there anyone else left, though? I would have preferred lots of things over Pineda but they're all off the table now.

Of Gleeman's top 25 free agent starting pitchers this offseason, only 3 remain unsigned:

16. Michael Pineda
22. Tyler Anderson
24. Drew Smyly

 

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why? Is he really that good? Healthy?

He had a better FIP in 2021 than Jon Gray, Zac Gallen, Mike Minor, Rich Hill, Jameson Taillon, Michael Wacha, and Jake Odorizzi (among others).

He had a better xFIP in 2021 than Adrian Houser, Mike Minor, Aaron Civale, John Means, and Casey Mize (among others).

He's not an ace or even a #2, but he's a very solid #3 or good #4, which would be welcome on an extremely shallow Twins rotation.

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I'd rather not see the rotation cluttered with the typical middle priced free agents on one year contracts. 

We're overestimating how many innings these prospects are going to be able to throw in the majors this season. Right now Gray is the only starter they have who's likely to throw 150+ innings, and even that might be a coin flip. With Pineda onboard there is still plenty of opportunity on paper for the prospects, and once you add injury, ineffectiveness, ect into the mix that pool of available innings widens. Really this is Pineda vs. a AAAA/washed vet arm on a minor league deal. I'll take the former, he at least can win a few games and might be worth something at the deadline. 

35 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

He had a better FIP in 2021 than Jon Gray, Zac Gallen, Mike Minor, Rich Hill, Jameson Taillon, Michael Wacha, and Jake Odorizzi (among others).

He had a better xFIP in 2021 than Adrian Houser, Mike Minor, Aaron Civale, John Means, and Casey Mize (among others).

He's not an ace or even a #2, but he's a very solid #3 or good #4, which would be welcome on an extremely shallow Twins rotation.

Thanks. Didn't know he was that good last year....

57 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

We're overestimating how many innings these prospects are going to be able to throw in the majors this season. Right now Gray is the only starter they have who's likely to throw 150+ innings, and even that might be a coin flip. With Pineda onboard there is still plenty of opportunity on paper for the prospects, and once you add injury, ineffectiveness, ect into the mix that pool of available innings widens. Really this is Pineda vs. a AAAA/washed vet arm on a minor league deal. I'll take the former, he at least can win a few games and might be worth something at the deadline. 

I agree with you. 16 different pitchers made starts for us last year. 10 of those pitchers made 5 starts or more. Naming a starting 5 coming out of training camp is never enough. It doesn't matter if those named 5 are who the Mets and Dodgers are going to name. Pitchers 6 though 10 are going to get the ball. Every team needs them and most fans overlook them so I appreciate your recognition of it. 

However, what I don't want to see anymore... ever again. Is a Shoemaker type making 11 starts and tossing 60 innings of what he did for us last year. It was a mistake to sign him and it was a bigger mistake to double down on that mistake by handing him the ball 11 times because he can't be easily moved off of.

Or Happ making 19 starts and tossing 90 innings of what he did for us last year. It was a mistake to sign him but doubling down on that mistake and handing him the ball 19 times was what killed us... the signing didn't kill us... the letting him pitch badly over and over again killed us. These types get too many chances without the option to take them off the 26 man roster easily.  

I don't want to roll the dice on pitchers that you can't easily get away from. I'd rather roll the dice with youngsters with options, A pitcher with options can be moved down quickly if they get lit up like Shoemaker did and replaced with another youngster with options until you eventually find an Ober that gives your offense a chance to win and then you give him the ball again. 

Innings management of the youngsters has been something that I've thought about a lot when thinking about the pileup of arms on the 40 man. I was thinking about that before we signed Sonny Gray and thought this could get interesting. 

Necessity is the mother of invention. It will require some creativity. If you alleviate stress on the starters... the stress doesn't go away... it just transfers over to the bullpen.

Over 1400 innings need to be covered in 162 games. The traditional 5 man rotation coupled with the traditional bullpen set up won't get the job done this year. 

With that said... Pineda hasn't been bad for us. So... I'm ok with Pineda... i'm just thinking... what if he's not OK this year. 

4 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

With that said... Pineda hasn't been bad for us. So... I'm ok with Pineda... i'm just thinking... what if he's not OK this year. 

Then the Twins miss the playoffs by 14 games instead of 11.

• I'm sure the Twins have offered him the cheapest deal possible. I mean, look at the deal injured Matt Boyd signed with San Francisco? 

Pineda to the Tigers, 1 year deal, $5.5 mil guaranteed, plus $2.5 mil incentives.

Saw that. Guess trading for starter must be in the works?

8 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Saw that. Guess trading for starter must be in the works?

Not likely. Pohlad pocketing the extra money. 

Pineda isn’t a complete game changer for a rotation, but he was reliable to get 5-6 innings. I’m shocked he’s not desirable by the FO at 1/$5.5 with incentives. Especially when we initially invested in a full year expecting nothing so he could recover from TJS in 2018. 

23 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Pineda to the Tigers, 1 year deal, $5.5 mil guaranteed, plus $2.5 mil incentives.

Too rich for our blood....

12 minutes ago, MIke Vendsel said:

Not likely. Pohlad pocketing the extra money. 

That has nothing to do with it at this level of payroll. Falvey's spreadsheet probably said he was worth $5 million and not a penny more. 

Would rather have Big Mike than Bundy for similar money.

Sorry to say that with so many teams in on the A’s pitchers, we won’t have a shot there. With Big Mike out we’d better just bring up all the kids - Winder, SWR, Balazovic, etc.

I would not like to send high level prospects to the A's for their starters, too little control. 

32 minutes ago, TheMatt said:

Would rather have Big Mike than Bundy for similar money.

If we're not trying to win, don't sign either. And certainly don't trade a 1st round pick for Sonny Gray.  

I guess he just hasn't been healthy enough to warrant even a small investment. Other teams must be sour on him too, since starting pitching is a need for a lot of teams. 

Gray

Bundy

Ober

Ryan

Dobnak

Is that the plan?

2 minutes ago, MMMordabito said:

Gray

Bundy

Ober

Ryan

Dobnak

Is that the plan?

and at this point great defense too,,,LOL

47 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

If we're not trying to win, don't sign either. And certainly don't trade a 1st round pick for Sonny Gray.  

Unless several surprising developments occur soon, this will be a question many ask. Sano, Polanco, and Kepler must be thinking a little too.

I remain completely bewildered as to what this FO is doing this off-season.

1 year $5.5M for Pineda?  Seems a total no-brainer deal, much better than Bundy.

Are they getting bonuses if they save the Pohlads money or something?  Are they saving up for a big splash like Story?  What the heck is going on?????

This is really getting frustrating.