October 17, 20215 yr C'mon man. You're completely forgetting Cave, Refsnyder & Garlick. Said the day the moved on from Eddie that they would miss his heart, something you can't measure and doesn't show up in the box score or any analytic. If this team did one thing this year, it was play without heart. Jorge Polanco being the one exception.
October 17, 20215 yr 29 minutes ago, dxpavelka said: C'mon man. You're completely forgetting Cave, Refsnyder & Garlick. No one is forgetting those players, they're just considering the $8m difference between Rosario and all of them combined.
October 17, 20215 yr On 10/14/2021 at 6:48 AM, Number3 said: I know it does no good to dwell in the past. My main point is that I was glad to see Eddie in that situation. When Acuna returns to the Braves Eddie will probably be on his way to another team; that team being not the Twins. I do hope he sticks another year with the Braves. The Braves are my favorite NL team. Guess why? It is because when I was a kid they defeated the hated Yankees in the 1957 World Series and had a 3-1 lead in the 58 Series but managed to lose. Those were some teams with Aaron, Matthews, Spahn and the rest. And when I was a teenager the Twins beat the Braves in one of the best World Series of all time.
October 17, 20215 yr 15 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said: No one is forgetting those players, they're just considering the $8m difference between Rosario and all of them combined. As I said, one can understand moving on from Rosario, but still find fault with Falvine's replacement plan.
October 17, 20215 yr 14 hours ago, Brandon said: And when I was a teenager the Twins beat the Braves in one of the best World Series of all time. The best World Series of all time.
October 17, 20215 yr 21 minutes ago, USAFChief said: As I said, one can understand moving on from Rosario, but still find fault with Falvine's replacement plan. I’m not even sure their replacement plan was that bad, as they had some depth. The Kirilloff injury hurt the most. If he’s able to play more, I suspect we don’t miss Rosario at all. But one thing I’ll never understand is why Cave, a lefty, continued to be their backup option for so long when they so obviously needed a righty in that role.
October 17, 20215 yr 6 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said: But one thing I’ll never understand is why Cave, a lefty, continued to be their backup option for so long when they so obviously needed a righty in that role. To walk through this, first the club lost Donaldson, which meant that Arraez became the primary third baseman and was penciled in to get a lot of time in left, adding playing time for Cave (remember Arraez was in the lineup on Opening Day in left). Buxton missed a few starts in center in April and Cave was the only option to play center. Rooker was recalled for Donaldson, but went on the IL a few days later. Kepler went on the IL on April 17th. Pretty much at least one outfielder was out all month and then Buxton went down in early May, so Cave was pressed to at least platoon duty despite failing to hit during April and May. Cave was placed on the 60-day IL in mid-May. To summarize, the Twins were short at least one and usually two outfield options the first two months almost from Opening Day. I guess they could have gone to Refsnyder or Celestino earlier, but that was quite a rash of injuries.
October 17, 20215 yr 8 minutes ago, stringer bell said: To walk through this, first the club lost Donaldson, which meant that Arraez became the primary third baseman and was penciled in to get a lot of time in left, adding playing time for Cave (remember Arraez was in the lineup on Opening Day in left). Buxton missed a few starts in center in April and Cave was the only option to play center. Rooker was recalled for Donaldson, but went on the IL a few days later. Kepler went on the IL on April 17th. Pretty much at least one outfielder was out all month and then Buxton went down in early May, so Cave was pressed to at least platoon duty despite failing to hit during April and May. Cave was placed on the 60-day IL in mid-May. To summarize, the Twins were short at least one and usually two outfield options the first two months almost from Opening Day. I guess they could have gone to Refsnyder or Celestino earlier, but that was quite a rash of injuries. No, I'm talking about why they kept entering seasons with Cave as the designated backup outfielder when Kepler, Kirilloff, and Rosario are all left-handed. The one thing the Twins didn't need was another left-handed outfielder, they were already all stocked up on those.
October 17, 20215 yr 6 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said: No, I'm talking about why they kept entering seasons with Cave as the designated backup outfielder when Kepler, Kirilloff, and Rosario are all left-handed. The one thing the Twins didn't need was another left-handed outfielder, they were already all stocked up on those. I do agree. The team wasn't well-constructed lefty-righty and they also didn't have a real backup shortstop plus all of their bench guys were bat-first guys who weren't very good at defense and had very little speed.
October 17, 20215 yr 8 minutes ago, stringer bell said: I do agree. The team wasn't well-constructed lefty-righty and they also didn't have a real backup shortstop plus all of their bench guys were bat-first guys who weren't very good at defense and had very little speed. IMO, for the past few offseasons they've failed to acquire a rather available player: a legit backup defensive centerfielder that also hits right-handed.
October 18, 20215 yr Rodario has been so much fun today - what a day for Eddie. Elite speed to beat out a hit and the temperament to go for it.
October 18, 20215 yr And, Rosario wins a huge game for ATL. Four hits. GW RBI, and rally starting run with one of the best slides I have ever seen. Yes, we could have used him (or got something for him). He is what he is......a spark plug, and a WINNER.
October 18, 20215 yr Wow. Edie, Eddie, Ediie - what a great thing to see him swing the bat so impressively.
October 18, 20215 yr Well, well. Eddie was always great in the clutch, but I didn't foresee this happening when he was hitting so poorly in the first half with Cleveland this year. Getting traded to Atlanta has given him a boost. Perhaps he earns himself a bit more cash in the offseason with this impressive performance in the playoffs?
October 18, 20215 yr Suppose they're not thinking about Eddie's 4th hit tonight being a walk off either.....
October 18, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, Danchat said: Well, well. Eddie was always great in the clutch, but I didn't foresee this happening when he was hitting so poorly in the first half with Cleveland this year. Getting traded to Atlanta has given him a boost. Perhaps he earns himself a bit more cash in the offseason with this impressive performance in the playoffs? And the Twins will still lack heart next season.
October 18, 20215 yr 58 minutes ago, Danchat said: Well, well. Eddie was always great in the clutch, but I didn't foresee this happening when he was hitting so poorly in the first half with Cleveland this year. Getting traded to Atlanta has given him a boost. Perhaps he earns himself a bit more cash in the offseason with this impressive performance in the playoffs? Which is exactly what we have lacked in the playoffs......Go figure. On a team that doesn't gag once the postseason begins, he seems to be flourishing (sans the power we have seen in the past). I also loved seeing Graterol. He can REALLY bring it. Regret may set in for our 'braintrust' as some point in the next year or so....
October 18, 20215 yr 9 minutes ago, Crackedfungo said: Which is exactly what we have lacked in the playoffs......Go figure. On a team that doesn't gag once the postseason begins, he seems to be flourishing (sans the power we have seen in the past). I also loved seeing Graterol. He can REALLY bring it. Regret may set in for our 'braintrust' as some point in the next year or so.... Well, Rosario was in the lineup in 6 of those playoff losses... and speaking of Graterol, he was credited with the game winning run tonight. I know he still has plenty of upside, but I'm underwhelmed by his results so far. I think it'd be the same if he were still a Twin.
October 18, 20215 yr Even though we know Eddie could not have saved the '21 Twins season, and letting him go was the right thing to do, watching that performance must leave every fan and former teammate simultaneously cheering and shaking their heads. P.S. Nice to see Ron Washington continuing to flourish. He should be given another crack at a managing job.
October 18, 20215 yr 9 hours ago, Danchat said: Well, well. Eddie was always great in the clutch For the millionth time, he wasn’t. He was completely normal in the clutch. Clutch Stats I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ 2 outs, RISP 286 345 318 115 79 14 2 11 108 10 2 26 63 .248 .307 .409 .716 130 0 1 0 0 9 3 .279 86 Late & Close 368 501 460 72 128 30 5 18 81 9 3 29 101 .278 .320 .483 .803 222 9 1 8 3 6 1 .320 106 Tie Game 531 822 773 87 205 45 4 29 116 12 6 36 153 .265 .295 .446 .742 345 11 1 3 9 4 5 .293 90 Within 1 R 715 1643 1537 223 426 86 13 69 246 27 14 82 307 .277 .312 .485 .796 745 19 1 10 13 8 11 .304 104 Within 2 R 771 2186 2042 299 570 111 19 88 313 37 15 109 400 .279 .313 .481 .795 983 28 2 12 21 11 12 .306 103 Within 3 R 784 2540 2375 346 643 127 21 99 351 41 19 129 480 .271 .306 .467 .773 1109 31 2 12 22 12 14 .299 98 Within 4 R 791 2788 2604 379 709 136 23 108 382 48 22 146 520 .272 .309 .467 .775 1215 35 2 12 24 15 15 .301 99 Margin > 4 R 253 454 436 63 127 17 2 25 68 2 1 13 80 .291 .311 .511 .822 223 5 1 0 4 0 3 .304 109 Ahead 502 1281 1198 193 340 60 14 52 199 24 13 67 206 .284 .319 .487 .807 584 17 1 3 12 8 10 .303 106 Behind 491 1139 1069 162 291 48 7 52 135 14 4 56 241 .272 .307 .476 .783 509 12 1 6 7 3 3 .305 100 Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 10/18/2021.
October 18, 20215 yr 9 hours ago, Crackedfungo said: Which is exactly what we have lacked in the playoffs......Go figure. On a team that doesn't gag once the postseason begins, he seems to be flourishing (sans the power we have seen in the past). This simply doesn't make sense. So is Rosario clutch and helped Atlanta win or is he just the beneficiary of being on a team that doesn't choke? Or is Rosario leading Atlanta but then why didn't he do it with the Twins? By the way, Rosario had a .665 OPS literally a week ago in the NLDS. Why can't we just be happy for Eddie without trying to manufacture some kind of negative side of the situation?
October 18, 20215 yr Author On 10/15/2021 at 12:55 PM, AceWrigley said: Too bad they couldn't come up with a 2B man to round out that lineup instead of cycling through O'Connell, Schoendienst, Mantilla, & Cottier. That is coming up with some names for sure. Red of course went on to manage. O'Connel I flat have no recollection. Chuck Cottier and Felix were classic good field (if that) no hit. Definitely a weak spot with Del Crandal, Johnny Logan and Joe Adcock rounding out a hard hitting infield/catcher.
October 18, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said: This simply doesn't make sense. So is Rosario clutch and helped Atlanta win or is he just the beneficiary of being on a team that doesn't choke? Or is Rosario leading Atlanta but then why didn't he do it with the Twins? By the way, Rosario had a .665 OPS literally a week ago in the NLDS. Why can't we just be happy for Eddie without trying to manufacture some kind of negative side of the situation? Last night was a joy to watch and that slide was amazing never mind the walk off hit.
October 18, 20215 yr 14 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said: IMO, for the past few offseasons they've failed to acquire a rather available player: a legit backup defensive centerfielder that also hits right-handed. Isn't that Keon Broxton? He obviously didn't work out, but it's not like he was destined to be worse than the rest of his peers in this group. Here's the notable RHB backup CF from the 2020-2021 MLB FA tracker: Michael A. Taylor Marisnick Almora Danny Santana DeShields Billy Hamilton Same criteria, but 2019-2020: Maybin Guillermo Heredia Broxton Gorkys Hernandez Lagares Billy Hamilton again
October 18, 20215 yr 11 hours ago, Danchat said: Well, Rosario was in the lineup in 6 of those playoff losses... and speaking of Graterol, he was credited with the game winning run tonight. I know he still has plenty of upside, but I'm underwhelmed by his results so far. I think it'd be the same if he were still a Twin. I'm certain I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I recall Eddie getting on base during some of those losses to the Yankees. Don't recall what his stats were, but I seem to remember he did ok.
October 18, 20215 yr 2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said: For the millionth time, he wasn’t. He was completely normal in the clutch. Clutch Stats I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ 2 outs, RISP 286 345 318 115 79 14 2 11 108 10 2 26 63 .248 .307 .409 .716 130 0 1 0 0 9 3 .279 86 Late & Close 368 501 460 72 128 30 5 18 81 9 3 29 101 .278 .320 .483 .803 222 9 1 8 3 6 1 .320 106 Tie Game 531 822 773 87 205 45 4 29 116 12 6 36 153 .265 .295 .446 .742 345 11 1 3 9 4 5 .293 90 Within 1 R 715 1643 1537 223 426 86 13 69 246 27 14 82 307 .277 .312 .485 .796 745 19 1 10 13 8 11 .304 104 Within 2 R 771 2186 2042 299 570 111 19 88 313 37 15 109 400 .279 .313 .481 .795 983 28 2 12 21 11 12 .306 103 Within 3 R 784 2540 2375 346 643 127 21 99 351 41 19 129 480 .271 .306 .467 .773 1109 31 2 12 22 12 14 .299 98 Within 4 R 791 2788 2604 379 709 136 23 108 382 48 22 146 520 .272 .309 .467 .775 1215 35 2 12 24 15 15 .301 99 Margin > 4 R 253 454 436 63 127 17 2 25 68 2 1 13 80 .291 .311 .511 .822 223 5 1 0 4 0 3 .304 109 Ahead 502 1281 1198 193 340 60 14 52 199 24 13 67 206 .284 .319 .487 .807 584 17 1 3 12 8 10 .303 106 Behind 491 1139 1069 162 291 48 7 52 135 14 4 56 241 .272 .307 .476 .783 509 12 1 6 7 3 3 .305 100 Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 10/18/2021. Awful lot of numbers there, Brock. But the key would be that his numbers seemed to remain constant in all the various situations. And all those numbers appear to be quite good. What would be interesting is how they compare to lots of the other big name hitters in the game. Got a feeling that a lot of them have much worse 'clutch' numbers. But that is just my guess.
October 18, 20215 yr 10 minutes ago, roger said: Awful lot of numbers there, Brock. But the key would be that his numbers seemed to remain constant in all the various situations. And all those numbers appear to be quite good. What would be interesting is how they compare to lots of the other big name hitters in the game. Got a feeling that a lot of them have much worse 'clutch' numbers. But that is just my guess. Almost all hitters end up performing the same in clutch situations that they do in regular, overall hitting situations. There are exceptions but they're exceedingly rare and, at least what I've noticed, tend to reside in generational bat control hitters with Hall of Fame credentials. Two examples are Tony Gwynn and Joe Mauer. And even those could be flukish aberrations because other generational talents like Rod Carew and Wade Boggs show absolutely zero improvement in clutch situations. I mean, as good as Joe Mauer was with the stick, he wasn't Wade Boggs in his prime. And Tony and Rod... I could argue either was better depending solely on my mood at the time. Either way, you can see the enormous gulf of talent between those guys I listed and Eddie Rosario.
October 18, 20215 yr I loved watching him bafoo's and all. I like players that go all out every time they play. Rosario, Escobar, Austidillo, Buxton, Sano, Cruz, Suzuki, Berrios to name a few. There is more to baseball than just stats if you really love and enjoy watching a game. They certainly could have afforded to pay Rosario 9 million instead of going CHEAP with Cave.
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