It’s time for the front office to step up and ink some deals

[chpettit19]

31 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

I don't know where the 7 years keeps coming from.  That's an unusual length for a contract for the Twins, and I have my doubts that the Twins are looking to seriously offer Buxton $10M a year and not have him laugh in their faces.

This is probably the standard Twins 5-year deal with an easy opt-out clause in the 5th year for the Twins.  With Buxton's injury history, there could also be an opt-out for the 4th year.

Dan Hayes on the Athletic is reporting Buxton is happy with the 7/80 for base, but it's the escalators/incentives that aren't reaching his desired numbers. Now take that for the 3rd party report it is, but Buxton is certainly saying things that make it seem like he thinks it's possible to get a deal done and he wants one done here. Buxton could also just be playing the "I tried" card just like people think the Twins do, but from the sounds of it he's not laughing in anyone's face about the contracts, they just aren't quite there yet.

[Number3]

All this talk about how to deal with Byron Buxton is, frankly, hilarious. What part of 1987 and 1991 don't current fans understand? My guess is that many members of this discussion group weren't even born then and even those were very unusual seasons with a great HOME FIELD advantage that was deemed to be a huge problem. Buxton will never play 7 more seasons plain and simple. Just to sign him up to keep people happy would be a huge mistake. As far as 1987 and 1991 are concerned, forget about that happening again for decades if ever. Just enjoy the game for what it is and hope for something better than a sub .400 winning %.

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, ashbury said:

Yes, because MLB is just like the office job I used to have.

Just one opinion but I don't think they are all that different.  The 3rd company where I had full P&L responsibility was just a little larger than the Twins in terms of revenue.  We had about 100 less employees.  All those Milb players increases the number of personnel.  However, the technical staff was just a little larger than the Milb and MLB players combined.  Acquiring and developing staff was a crucial part of success.  My experience is that certain people are not accepting an offer unless it's so extreme that it just does not make sense for the company (team).  It was much the same with the exception being we dealt with a considerably more complex set of challenges in terms of managing the things that could go wrong.  Yet, fixing a struggling pitcher can be as hard as finding a problem among 10s of thousands of servers in a Tier Four data center.  Very different atmosphere, not so different in terms of making personnel decisions that are good for the business/team?

[Dodecahedron]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Dan Hayes on the Athletic is reporting Buxton is happy with the 7/80 for base, but it's the escalators/incentives that aren't reaching his desired numbers. Now take that for the 3rd party report it is, but Buxton is certainly saying things that make it seem like he thinks it's possible to get a deal done and he wants one done here. Buxton could also just be playing the "I tried" card just like people think the Twins do, but from the sounds of it he's not laughing in anyone's face about the contracts, they just aren't quite there yet.

I'm guessing Dan Hayes on the Athletic is mistaken, because such a deal makes no sense for Buxton or for the Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Dan Hayes on the Athletic is reporting Buxton is happy with the 7/80 for base, but it's the escalators/incentives that aren't reaching his desired numbers. Now take that for the 3rd party report it is, but Buxton is certainly saying things that make it seem like he thinks it's possible to get a deal done and he wants one done here. Buxton could also just be playing the "I tried" card just like people think the Twins do, but from the sounds of it he's not laughing in anyone's face about the contracts, they just aren't quite there yet.

Oh my lord, if Buxton is happy with that base, DO WHAT THE MAN WANTS AND SIGN HIM. The escalators shouldn't be the problem here. Give him games played escalators that can make him up to $25-30m a year and be done with this.

If Buxton plays 150 games, exactly zero people should care how much he is paid. That has never been and will probably never will be the issue with Byron.

[Squirrel]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh my lord, if Buxton is happy with that base, DO WHAT THE MAN WANTS AND SIGN HIM. The escalators shouldn't be the problem here. Give him games played escalators that can make him up to $25-30m a year and be done with this.

If Buxton plays 150 games, exactly zero people should care how much he is paid. That's not the issue and will probably never be the issue with Byron.

Exactly this. Which is why I can't believe the base is okay to Buxton. I mean ... if he's on the field, he will be worth every bit of whatever he gets. If he's not, then he's worth what he won't get. It's a no brainer, to me at least, which is why I can't believe that it's just about the escalators. If that is the hang up, and we don't sign him, then I say 'buh bye' to the FO.

[chpettit19]

15 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

I'm guessing Dan Hayes on the Athletic is mistaken, because such a deal makes no sense for Buxton or for the Twins.

Just passing along information from someone who has a whole lot more info on things than us. Not sure why you don't think that deal makes sense for the Twins, but if I were Buxton I don't know that I'd want to sign a 7 year deal right now. But it's possible he actually means it when he says he wants to spend his entire career with the Twins. Who are we to say he shouldn't, or doesn't, want that?

[Dodecahedron]

Be skeptical.  If something does not make sense, experience shows it is usually wrong.  So, unless you want to bounce around through life, save yourself some mental cycles and ask questions at the beginning.

[Dman]

23 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Exactly this. Which is why I can't believe the base is okay to Buxton. I mean ... if he's on the field, he will be worth every bit of whatever he gets. If he's not, then he's worth what he won't get. It's a no brainer, to me at least, which is why I can't believe that it's just about the escalators. If that is the hang up, and we don't sign him, then I say 'buh bye' to the FO.

Yeah I think I would feel the same.  Buxton is already willing to give them an out to some degree by keeping the guaranteed money at a reasonable level.  He is essentially betting on himself to stay healthy and if he does produce at all star levels then he wants to be paid what he is worth through escalators.  I don't know how you don't do that deal.  The man is literally willing to mainly be paid by the production he provides.  If the FO can't get that done I would like to see them go.  I know Buxton is a huge injury risk but this is a case where you need to factor in that risk.  He literally is a game changer when healthy you have to do that deal.  There would have to be 15 to 20 teams out there that would love to do a deal like that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

18 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Be skeptical.  If something does not make sense, experience shows it is usually wrong.  So, unless you want to bounce around through life, save yourself some mental cycles and ask questions at the beginning.

Don't be so condescending. No one is stating this report is gospel but Hayes *does* have much. more information on this subject than we do.

It certainly shifts the context of the narrative at the very least and could be a very intentional crafting by Buxton's agent.

Who knows? But it's interesting either way.

[Dodecahedron]

12 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Don't be so condescending. No one is stating this report is gospel but Hayes *does* have much. more information on this subject than we do.

Someone definitely is questioning our right to be skeptical.  Enough said.

[ashbury]

55 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh my lord, if Buxton is happy with that base, DO WHAT THE MAN WANTS AND SIGN HIM. The escalators shouldn't be the problem here. Give him games played escalators that can make him up to $25-30m a year and be done with this.

If Buxton plays 150 games, exactly zero people should care how much he is paid. That has never been and will probably never will be the issue with Byron.

I rarely resort to "this", but, this.

You WANT the PRIVILEGE of paying him the $25-30M on a contract like that.

[chpettit19]

43 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Be skeptical.  If something does not make sense, experience shows it is usually wrong.  So, unless you want to bounce around through life, save yourself some mental cycles and ask questions at the beginning.

Not sure if this was directed at me, but I was being skeptical. I said I didn't know why Buxton would want to sign a 7 year deal right now. But I'm not going to pretend I have information I don't. Byron said he wants to sign here. Byron said he isn't upset and talks are ongoing. I can both recognize that it's possible this is just lip service from Byron and that it's possibly how he truly feels. It's not my place to call someone I've never met a liar. You and I have disagreed on things before and clearly come at things from different perspectives. The truth is neither of us have any real idea what the contract negotiations have been like or what Byron is really thinking. So with that I will take my leave and allow you to be skeptical in your way while I'm skeptical in mine.

[Cap'n Piranha]

3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh my lord, if Buxton is happy with that base, DO WHAT THE MAN WANTS AND SIGN HIM. The escalators shouldn't be the problem here. Give him games played escalators that can make him up to $25-30m a year and be done with this.

If Buxton plays 150 games, exactly zero people should care how much he is paid. That has never been and will probably never will be the issue with Byron.

UNLESS, it's an issue of incentives v escalators.  If Buxton wants an escalator that anytime he hits 500 PA's in a season, every current and future year of the deal gets an extra $5M, that's potentially problematic.  One potential outcome is Buxton gets 500 PA's in 2022 and 2023, but then returns to his extreme injury ways, and accumulates only 1500 PA's over the last 5 years of the deal, and the Twins have to pay him $107M for the equivalent of barely two seasons.  Another issue is if he has 4 good-not-great years, and starts to decline rapidly in the 5th year (his age 32 season), the Twins could be paying him $25M-$30M a year for 2-3 WAR; after all, the instant Buxton goes from center to right or left, he immediately loses 2 WAR/162 games.

On the other hand, incentives would apply, theoretically, only to the year in question, and would act more like bonuses.  In that sense, if Buxton has a phenomenal 2022 (say he puts up 8 WAR, plays 150 games, starts in the all-star game, and finishes 2nd in MVP voting), he would get paid $25M-$30M for that year, but his salary would reset to $11Mish for 2023, and he has to perform all over again to bump his pay up.

I completely understand why Buxton would prefer the escalators, and the Twins would be hesitant.  I completely understand why the Twins would prefer the incentives, and Buxton would be hesitant.  The trick will probably be finding a way to do both, so that Buxton is underpaid if he has great years, but overpaid if he has injured/decent years.

[Brandon]

My 2 cents:

I think in Berrios case, he likes it here but has said for years now he wants top dollar and to test the Free Agent market.  We do draft a lot of players from Puerto Rico and he has been with this organization since being drafted in the first round in 2012.  so I do believe him when he says he like Minnesota.  I also believe he wants top dollar for his family and Free Agency is his chance to set his family up for the next Century or 2.  So he will try Free Agency and if we have the best offer, he will gladly resign here.  This is not the likely outcome however as others will likely out bid us for him.

In Buxton's case he has said on several occasions he wants to stay here and He is from a smaller community so I believe he would rather stay with a small market team like the Twins vs say the Yankees.  He would also be happy in Atlanta I bet.... But, He is established in Minnesota and had a good routine for him and his family.  so I believe he does prefer to work out a contract extension.  I think they just need to figure it out.

I think the breakdown in contract discussions means the Twins are likely to trade Berrios as the Twins do not want to risk loosing both and now is the time to trade since the Dodgers and Pads both need him and can overpay in prospects for him.