Article: Spring Organizational Depth Chart: The Starting Pitchers

[jokin]

Can someone enlighten us as to exactly what incentives they have in their contracts?

 

Lannan gets $200K for each 10 inning step above 150 innings, $250K for 200 and 210IP and $250K for each start above 30 to 34.

 

Marcum's details haven't been officially disclosed, but are based on similar benchmarks of production.

[glunn]

Lannan gets $200K for each 10 inning step above 150 innings, $250K for 200 and 210IP and $250K for each start above 30 to 34.

 

Marcum's details haven't been officially disclosed, but are based on similar benchmarks of production.

 

So based on that, would everyone agree that there is at least some merit to the position that Lannan and Marcum would probably be an upgrade even of they hit only half of the incentives, say roughly 175 innings and 2 starts? What jokin is saying makes sense to me, assuming that Correia is as bad as people are saying.

 

On the other hand, I have high hopes for Worley as someone who could be very good for years to come if he can improve his "out" pitch. And Pelfry could turn out to be a big contributor for a year, a total bust or something in between.

 

Only one thing seems certain -- we won't know which side was correct for at least another few months.

[jokin]

So based on that, would everyone agree that there is at least some merit to the position that Lannan and Marcum would probably be an upgrade even of they hit only half of the incentives, say roughly 175 innings and 2 starts? What jokin is saying makes sense to me, assuming that Correia is as bad as people are saying.

 

On the other hand, I have high hopes for Worley as someone who could be very good for years to come if he can improve his "out" pitch. And Pelfry could turn out to be a big contributor for a year, a total bust or something in between.

 

Only one thing seems certain -- we won't know which side was correct for at least another few months.

 

I didn't necessarily have a problem with signing Pelfrey. My main objection was that they couldn't get a team option 2nd year out of his agent. The first year back from TJ is usually pretty meh. And even assuming that Pelfrey starts out of the gate gangbusters, the chance that the Twins can trade him for value at the deadline is very slim.

 

I like the Worley acquisition as well, young and with some personality and a chance to re-establish himself as a legit #3SP with a fanbase that has far more patience than Philadelphia.

[PseudoSABR]

Marcum

 

• 1 year/$4M (2013)
  
  • signed by NY Mets as a free agent 1/13
    
  • performance bonuses: $0.250M each for 120, 140, 160, 170 innings. $0.375M each for 180, 190 IP. $0.5M for 200 IP
    
  • roster bonuses: $0.375M each for 90, 120 days on active roster without injury to right arm. $0.5M each for 150, 170 days
    

[glunn]

Marcum

 

• 1 year/$4M (2013)
  
  • signed by NY Mets as a free agent 1/13
    
  • performance bonuses: $0.250M each for 120, 140, 160, 170 innings. $0.375M each for 180, 190 IP. $0.5M for 200 IP
    
  • roster bonuses: $0.375M each for 90, 120 days on active roster without injury to right arm. $0.5M each for 150, 170 days
    

   

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

Based on what you and jokin have posted, it looks like Marcum's incentives kick in sooner and more generous than Lannan's. Can we all at least agree that we would swap Correia and his contract for either Markum or Lannan and his contract even if all incentives are earned?

[mako83]

Would any of those three have signed here. Market matters for these boys.

[Oxtung]

Would any of those three have signed here. Market matters for these boys.

 

I don't think anyone can say for sure about those three specifically but there were a ton of pitchers available this offseason with better track records than what we signed. Which I think was jokin's larger point (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) If you'd like to rehash the FA market from mid September listen to this Gleeman and the Geek episode where they break down the available starters.

 

Gleeman and The Geek - Minnesota Twins Podcast

[3up3down]

seth, I know you are a fan of hendriks, I would like to know why in your opinion is he being given so many chances? In years past i have seen projected top of the rotation guys get alot of chances but i dont think in the 30 years i have been doing my thing in baseball i have ever seen a guy with avg stuff get this much opportunity , he is basically being given the #5 spot. a guy like gibson ,top of the rotation stuff ,top prospect, those are guys that get every opportunity to succeed...i have been in ft myers & i see hendriks,devries gibson & walters competing for the 5 spot , and 1 will make the team out of camp to fill in for diamond 1 start.. right now it should be devries spot he pitched well last season & he has been great this spring, walters is having a good spring but his walks are a concern, when he was in college his control was plus , his pitches look good but his control has got to be better. deduno could be in the mix but if he is not here he is not in the conversation doesnt matter what he does in the WBC & once they get to rochester its all even & the guy that is pitching the best will be the 1st promoted..i just think these last 3 weeks the starts shoud go to devries & walters, hendriks has had his shot this spring & he is getting out pitched buy a couple of guys.

[Seth Stohs]

seth, I know you are a fan of hendriks, I would like to know why in your opinion is he being given so many chances? In years past i have seen projected top of the rotation guys get alot of chances but i dont think in the 30 years i have been doing my thing in baseball i have ever seen a guy with avg stuff get this much opportunity , he is basically being given the #5 spot. a guy like gibson ,top of the rotation stuff ,top prospect, those are guys that get every opportunity to succeed...i have been in ft myers & i see hendriks,devries gibson & walters competing for the 5 spot , and 1 will make the team out of camp to fill in for diamond 1 start.. right now it should be devries spot he pitched well last season & he has been great this spring, walters is having a good spring but his walks are a concern, when he was in college his control was plus , his pitches look good but his control has got to be better. deduno could be in the mix but if he is not here he is not in the conversation doesnt matter what he does in the WBC & once they get to rochester its all even & the guy that is pitching the best will be the 1st promoted..i just think these last 3 weeks the starts shoud go to devries & walters, hendriks has had his shot this spring & he is getting out pitched buy a couple of guys.

 

A year ago, Hendriks was ranked anywhere from #3 to #6 Twins prospect. Yes, that does somewhat speak to the farm system being down last year and rocketing forward this year, but it also speaks to what Hendriks did. In 2010, he pitched in Beloit and Ft. Myers and was dominant. In 2011, he pitched great for New Britain, pretty well for Rochester, and then due to injury, he made a couple of starts with the Twins. He was the minor league pitcher of the year. In 2012, he was very good in Rochester, and really struggled with the Twins, as a 23 year old. No shame in that! This spring, he had three really good starts where the coaching staff was raving about his improvements, and then the rough start most recently on the day when the wind is blowing out. he's still just 24. He throws 90-93, has a good CB and a good CU. His control is traditionally quite good. He's aggressive. Sounds like a solid #3 starter to me. Certainly not a guy to give up on after his Age 23 season.

 

De Vries just turned 28, touches 90 and has a good CB.

Gibson is absolutely a top prospect (ranking anywhere from #5-#7 depending on the source) and he will be very good.

 

And, by the way... good job of (hopefully) changing the subject away from players that aren't in the Twins organization!

[3up3down]

seth, yea the topic was headed in the wrong direction..

 

i agree with you on some parts, gibson is good & he is coming, not out of camp but he will be there this year & be in the rotation for a long time..he is a top of the rotation guy.

 

on devries , does his age matter, the only thing his age makes him is not a prospect & he never was a prospect, he is just getting the job done , isnt that what matters.

 

you did not mention walters but he like hendrks was a pitcher of the year, cruised thru the minors & just didnt have opportunity in st louis, he had a great opportunity last year & came up injured

 

on hendriks, what he did in A & AA ball means absolutely nothing, if you have decent off speed stuff you will sail thru the lower levels, now what he has done at AAA is absolutely amazing & thats why he has gotten his opportunity. but cmon how many starts has he had in the bigs, its beginning to not be a small sample size, he is more 88-91 just like devries & walters, his CB &CU grade as below avg to maybe avg, definately not #3 starter stuff...and i have seen his starts , a couple were not bad but there were some balls squared up & i know runs scored on a ball in the sun but its what he did after that , he lost it for a couple of batters , and i have heard the coaches comments before those are confidence boosters hoping that it finally gets thru..the wind was blowing out the other day but i know your not saying those were wind aided , they were all legit , & all the pitchers pitched with the wind blowing out , if your a GB pitcher keep the ball on the ground that way it dont fly over the fence..

 

i hope you know i am not argueing with you & i respect your opinion , i know you have seen these guys ..i just wanted hear your explanation..

 

and i have not given up on hendriks.