Game Recap: Twins 5, White Sox 4

[LewFordLives]

9 hours ago, blindeke said:

I was enjoying this recap until I read the last line.

I don't wish for poor performance, but I'm hoping the Twins will pull the plug on the Shoemaker experiment.

[mac098]

As a person who has grown up playing the game within the last 20 years, I would say that what Yermin did was definitely not okay. But at the same time I look at it as this: If you don't want a position player pitching in the game, don't fall behind by so much. 

Now do I agree with Duffey throwing behind him. Not necessarily. Do I think it was the fire the Twins and Baldelli needed to show the fans that the players and still care? Absolutely. Sometimes things like this do light a fire underneath teams and create a good rivalry for years. Look at the D-backs and the Dodgers. 

For the win. This team looked like a team that didn't look defeated going into the 8th down by 2. They looked like a team that wanted to win. This game showed us that the Twins looked hungry. Sano looked on top of his game. The defense looked solid (for the most part), the bullpen looked fired up and ready to go on all cylinders, and the hitters never once looked like they were out of the game.

Ober pitched as well as he could on such short notice and given he is very young and inexperienced. I'm assuming he was nervous as hell (I mean who wouldn't be at that point in their career.) facing a very competitive and play-off bound ChiSox team that has absolutely demolished Twins pitching this year. 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Tom Froemming said:

Of course Duffey threw at Mercedes intentionally. 

Embarrassing. Pathetic.

You really feel like a guy hitting a 3-0 home run off your position player deserves retaliation? Don't get down 15-4. Don't put in a guy throwing 45 mph.

I feel the same.  I prefer my team to wear the white hat not the black but that is just me.  Larussa and the Sox get the last laugh though because our relief pitchers are so bad they can't even hit a batter when trying.  Pathetic and unwarranted are a few words that come to mind to me. 

If you aren't fired up (embarrassed)  being behind in a game by 12 runs then I fail to see how trying to hit a batter from the other team gets you fired up.  That is pretty flawed logic mental or psychological if you ask me.  If you don't want to get shown up by the other team play better, I fail to see how hitting someone makes you a better team.  In fact it makes you come off as crybabies more than anything IMO.

Well in a bad start to the season I guess stooping even lower should not be a surprise.  

[mnfireman]

Maybe the issue wasn't so much hitting a HR off of a position player while up 11, maybe it was the fact that he stood there for a second admiring it, like he just took Aroldis Chapman or Josh Hader deep. He should have just put his head down and run. It was basically a BP HR, not the game winner in the bottom of the 9th of Game 7 of the WS...

[MMMordabito]

8 hours ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

"In what is already a lost season..."

Fat lady has not yet taken the stage.  Enough things can still go right for the Twins to find a berth in October, but they are going to have to claw and bash their way back.  Very nice to see them seize on one of their dwindling opportunities today.  Every out is precious now.

So write this down, "We’ve got to play them one day at a time.”

[Alex Schieferdecker]

Was dumb to throw at the guy. Who cares? Baseball's unwritten rules are extremely stupid.

Ober looked nervous. Even then, looked like he's got stuff that might play, and was throwing quite a bit faster than advertised. Certainly hoping to see him get another start, maybe at the expense of Happ, who could use a bit of a break, or Pineda if his medical issue continues.

Impressive outing from the bullpen. For one night at least, they put it all together. Let's get more hitters healthy and then we'll see what can happen.

[Unwinder]

This "unwritten rule" stuff feels like a weird holdover from another time. Seeing Duffey throw at(?) Mercedes, I feel like I'm watching an old movie where a character walks into a bar and gets kicked out because the regulars don't like the look of him. It feels anachronistic. It feels like it comes out of some sort of macho code that hasn't existed since before I was born.

Speaking as a guy who's only been following baseball for a couple of years, I'm not a fan of this. This is much more of a turnoff to me than long late innings or frequent pitcher changes, or whatever else MLB has been trying to tweak to make baseball friendlier to newcomers.

[SoDakTwinsFan4]

10 hours ago, blindeke said:

I was enjoying this recap until I read the last line.

About Shoemakers start today? I'm predicting a solid start from him today. 

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, SoDakTwinsFan4 said:

About Shoemakers start today? I'm predicting a solid start from him today. 

 

2 minutes ago, SoDakTwinsFan4 said:

About Shoemakers start today? I'm predicting a solid start from him today. 

It's not a double-header.

[SoDakTwinsFan4]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

 

It's not a double-header.

Yeah there are a few kinks with the new format. For example; when I initially opened this page/article, there were 2 quoted posts pre-loaded before I even touched anything. 

[Mike Sixel]

Throwing a baseball at someone because your feelings are hurt isn't brave. Or mature. Or require balls. Or giving a darn. It's sad. If the twins didn't want the sox to play anymore, the twins should have walked off the field and forfeited. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

9 hours ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

"In what is already a lost season..."

Fat lady has not yet taken the stage.  Enough things can still go right for the Twins to find a berth in October, but they are going to have to claw and bash their way back.  Very nice to see them seize on one of their dwindling opportunities today.  Every out is precious now.

So write this down, "We’ve got to play them one day at a time.”

Sounds like a good plan—win the game you are playing on the field on that day.

[ashbury]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Throwing a baseball at someone because your feelings are hurt isn't brave. Or mature. Or require balls. Or giving a darn. It's sad. If the twins didn't want the sox to play anymore, the twins should have walked off the field and forfeited. 

Sitting at my desk, I want to agree with you.

But I think the history of sports tells us that when hormones like adrenaline come into the picture, such as when a home run is hit on 3-0 in an obvious "take" situation, there will be one repercussion or another. Take away a pitch thrown behind someone's gluteus maximus, and I guarantee that the result will be more bad outcomes, not fewer.

Maybe someday the human race will be perfected. Not in my remaining lifetime.

[bighat]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Kudos to Sano. 

And huge kudos to Duffey for showing some indication somebody on this team gives a ****.

Agreed. My only problem is that he missed.

[Dodecahedron]

Yeah, I dunno.  I don't really care if a dude swung on a 3-0 pitch in a blowout game.  Dude's gonna get on base anyway.  Why not, who cares, etc.  I'm old enough to remember where the Twins set a record for number of runs scored against a team in a double header.  It was what, 30?  40?  This was against the Sox.  Was that "fair"?

Also, I don't really care if the same dude got plunked the next day, by accident or not.  These are adults.  I just don't care.  If it had caused a fight, sure, I'd care.  

I will say that Duffey looked surprised and concerned after he threw the pitch, if that means anything to anybody.

Sometimes these narratives just get out of control.  None of us know what is going on in the minds of either player.

[ashbury]

5 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

I will say that Duffey looked surprised and concerned after he threw the pitch, if that means anything to anybody.

That just means Tyler's a better thespian than Rocco.

Rocco clearly didn't have his heart in it, to get thrown out, but I'll give him credit for persisting until he got what he knew he had to have. I wish I could read lips - I'm betting his monologue was something like "you gotta throw me out. Come on, throw me out. Don't make me bring your mother into it., You've got a job to do but so do I. Just throw me out." He waved his arms a bit, to try to sell it to the crowd, like he's seen it done.

[Dodecahedron]

8 minutes ago, ashbury said:

That just means Tyler's a better thespian than Rocco.

Rocco clearly didn't have his heart in it, to get thrown out, but I'll give him credit for persisting until he got what he knew he had to have.

Maybe.  That's your assumption.  

This is like when you are driving and someone cuts you off.  Do you get angry, or do you remember that you have unintentionally cut off dozens of people as a driver too?  Like in driving, in baseball things happen.  You can turn it into a drama or you can move on.  Yeah, I get it, some people like drama.

Trying to guess what's going on inside their heads is hard.  But if I were in baseball, would I swing at a 3-0 pitch in that situation?  Probably.  Would I pitch inside to the same hitter later if I were pitching?  Probably.  Would I pitch behind the hitter?  Maybe, if the pitch got away from me or if I was too timid about throwing a real pitch inside.  These things happen in baseball.  I can buy it that Duffey was too timid to throw an actual threatening pitch and the pitch got away from him.

[SoDakTwinsFan4]

7 minutes ago, ashbury said:

That just means Tyler's a better thespian than Rocco.

Rocco clearly didn't have his heart in it, to get thrown out, but I'll give him credit for persisting until he got what he knew he had to have. I wish I could read lips - I'm betting his monologue was something like "you gotta throw me out. Come on, throw me out. Don't make me bring your mother into it., You've got a job to do but so do I. Just throw me out." He waved his arms a bit, to try to sell it to the crowd, like he's seen it done.

That's funny..In 2019 I recall a game where Rocco stormed out of the dugout, the camera was right on him, and I swear he lead with: "you're going to throw me out of this game"

[strumdatjag]

My first game at Target Field this year.  Just plain fun.    Terry Ryan was sitting a few rows ahead of us - general scouting for the Phillies (a trade??). 
Mira a shame the Twins attendance is still limited.  It would have been psychedelic pandemonium  (in the immortal words of Captain Lou Albano). 

[Dodecahedron]

2 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

My first game at Target Field this year.  Just plain fun.    Terry Ryan was sitting a few rows ahead of us - general scouting for the Phillies (a trade??). 
Mira a shame the Twins attendance is still limited.  It would have been psychedelic pandemonium  (in the immortal words of Captain Lou Albano). 

They won.  Seems like you need to go to more games.

[SoDakTwinsFan4]

3 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

They won.  Seems like you need to go to more games.

Put this wet blanket in the dryer ?

[Mike Sixel]

27 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Sitting at my desk, I want to agree with you.

But I think the history of sports tells us that when hormones like adrenaline come into the picture, such as when a home run is hit on 3-0 in an obvious "take" situation, there will be one repercussion or another. Take away a pitch thrown behind someone's gluteus maximus, and I guarantee that the result will be more bad outcomes, not fewer.

Maybe someday the human race will be perfected. Not in my remaining lifetime.

I agree with this. We aren't perfect. We should strive to be so......

[minman1982]

Of course Duffey threw at Mercedes intentionally.  Why not?  You can send the message to the young player and move on with life.  Maybe, just maybe, you breathe a little bit of life into this team that has seemed lifeless for much of the last month.  It isn't like putting him on down by two in that situation is likely going to matter.  Who would have thought Sano was going to hit that bomb in the 8th?  If I am Duffey, I probably think we are going to lose anyway so why not take care of business. 

I was lucky enough to turn it on in the ninth and kept watching (mainly to see how we were going to lose this one).  I am glad I did.  Finally, a nice late inning performance.  If they can somehow pull another rabbit out of the hat this afternoon and get another W, they will have won a series against one of the best teams in baseball right now and they will have a winning streak (in this season, I will count two in a row as a streak).

[Brock Beauchamp]

Microscopic sample size alert, but...

Miguel Sano Batting Gamelogs for Career Games 561 to 564

Date	Tm	G	GS	Rslt	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	SH	SF	ROE	GDP	SB	CS	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	BAbip	aLI	WPA	acLI	cWPA	RE24	DFS(DK)	DFS(FD)
May 15 to May 18, 2021	MIN	4	4	2-2	17	15	5	6	0	0	4	7	1	0	3	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	.400	.471	1.200	1.671	.250	1.38	0.881	.45	0.16%	3.81	74.00	100.50
per 162 games		162	162		689	608	203	244	0	0	162	284	41	0	122	41	0	0	0	41	0	0							35.7		6.5%	154.4	2998	4071

[Brock Beauchamp]

Also, Sano's wRC+ is now at 102, just a tick above league average.

Which is higher than the 99 wRC+ he had in 2020.

His K% is also at 35.4%, which is... wait for it...

The lowest mark he's had since...

Literally ever. It's his lowest mark since he entered the league.

[Dave The Dastardly]

I'm not a stats guy so here's a question I'd like some help with:  How many games did Sano not win by striking out with RISP when the Twins were behind versus how many games did he "win" by smacking a moonshot to put the Twins in the lead and/or tie the game and the Twins eventually triumphed?

Is there a stat for that?

[ashbury]

55 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

My first game at Target Field this year.  Just plain fun.    Terry Ryan was sitting a few rows ahead of us - general scouting for the Phillies (a trade??).

After the third HR, I bet if you listened closely you'd have heard Ryan say into his phone, "welp, looks like we're not getting Sano after all."

[Karbo]

If Duffy did throw try to hit him at least he had enough class to keep the pitch down where the risk of any injury was minimal. Thats the way the game has been played for years though I dont really think this time it was really a big deal. You throw a meatball to a guy its going to get hit, no matter what the score or count is.

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

C'mon Rocco. Your ejection-fu is weak. Review this video and improve.

(NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAXHXJ2WgrQ

 

There's also this classic: 

 

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

I'm not a stats guy so here's a question I'd like some help with:  How many games did Sano not win by striking out with RISP when the Twins were behind versus how many games did he "win" by smacking a moonshot to put the Twins in the lead and/or tie the game and the Twins eventually triumphed?

Is there a stat for that?

win probability added is the best stat for that......how much did he add or detract from the likelihood a team wins.