Proposed Playoff Expansion with a Reality TV Twist

[David HK]

Oh, for God's sake.

 

What, does Manfred have a 9yr old nephew in charge of things now? The whole concept is utterly ridiculous. What's the point of 162 games if everybody and their barely-above-.500 brother gets into the playoffs? 

 

Or maybe MLB is trying to head off the development of a new X-MLB league, with all their newfangled no-fair-catch rules and stuff.

 

For God's sake, what a stupid idea.

[TopGunn#22]

Shaitan and Nicksaviking have the right idea.  I've thought for a LONG time that baseball needs to move to a 154 game season so that the World Series is played closer to mid-October and not Halloween/Nov. 1st.  I'm pretty luke warm about this proposal, but if ANYTHING good could come of it, it would be that baseball would be forced to shorten the regular season so that the playoffs don't end up in November.  

[bighat]

I've always thought the slow pace of baseball mirrors the overall theme - that this is a sport that creates fans for a lifetime. Fans of every team are expected to endure "dark times" and "down years" that can last for many seasons. Fans can even enjoy those rebuilding years and use that time to focus on prospects. Remember when we'd read stories about Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano hanging out together down Ft. Myers and think "someday we're gonna be good"!

 

Patience is rewarded, and it makes it all the more satisfying when your team starts to perform after a drought. That's part of the game, that's how baseball's always been in my lifetime. And it's not 100% about winning or losing - it's about killing time listening on the back porch after you get done mowing the lawn, fishing, or just having a game on in the background late on a Thursday night when the team's on the West Coast.

 

This proposal is another example of how baseball is trying to get away from being "America's Pastime" and trying to become "America's XTREME Fever Factory".  We've got obnoxious dubstep being blasted in the stadium between pitches. We've got players wearing buzzers and using iPhones to cheat. The commissioner is now advocating some kind of free-for-all bloodbath playoff rule.

 

For me, the details of this proposal don't have me clutching my pearls. But I do think it's going in the wrong direction. When I see rule suggestions like this, I know it's not the end, but just the beginning of what will eventually make the sport unrecognizable.

 

And yes, I know there are problems. Fans don't show up in Miami and St. Pete. But that should be Miami's problem, and St. Pete's problem. Don't change the sport because a couple of franchises screwed up. Address their problems individually.

[USAFChief]

I don't see what the huge uproar is all about. I'm old school, but They're not going back to 2 leagues, winners make the WS. Expansion of the postseason has been going on for a long time now, and further expansion is probably inevitable.

 

They'd be adding 2 teams per league to the postseason, which is probably a bad idea overall, but understandable from a money and marketing perspective. If they're going to add 2 teams, this isn't a terrible idea. I actually like the idea of the better teams getting the chance to pick their opponant. Best record, and winning your division, would still matter. Best of three instead of 1 game shots for the first round.

[PDX Twin]

Relegation would solve the tanking problem. Three 10-team divisions. Bottom 2 (or 3) teams get relegated each year and top 2 or 3 promoted. Lower divisions get less TV/advertising money, so there is a strong incentive to avoid the bottom spots. Could add a firm salary cap to mitigate the "rich get richer" implications.

 

Playoffs would have a few teams from the first division, plus the champions of divisions 2 and 3. If division 3 champ wins the World Series it gets a double promotion to division 1.

[AWOLNATION_11]

I'd rather they make changes such as this to the playoff format and leave the actual game itself alone.   I don't think having a few more playoff games is going to change how I watch/appreciate the game, but too many rule changes may. 

[Thrylos]

 

Problem in baseball right now is the fact that a team is either tanking or cresting, and there is no in-between.

 

The current system is based on draft position and conserving cash for future runs.

 

This is a trial balloon by MLB to see if the public will buy in. 

 

Imagine a team trying to tank, who then gets a chance to beat the Yankees in a three-game series. 

 

Their fans, their hopes, their players, so held down, so without aspiration, suddenly exposed in front of the nation for the actions of their Front Office -- all the trade deadline deals, all the Injured List players -- I mean, you kind of gotta love the concept of saying "Your moment, in your opinion is not now, but in reality, it is now, and, what do you got?" 

 

What do you got?  That's what baseball is saying with this system. There is no place to hide under this system.

 

I'm not sure, but, I kind of like it.

There are better solutions to this problem, including, both a spending floor and a spending ceiling (something like floor is 75% of previous season's average and ceiling is 125%) and non-guaranteed contracts.

 

Just like the NFL.  Lots of parity there.

 

Baseball is enough of a dog and pony show, no need to make it worse.

[laloesch]

 

What is this, The Bachelor? Will the Yankees give the Twins a rose every year in the playoffs? This is a bad idea.

Wow! Absolutely stupid. Hate this awful idea. They are really grasping at straws now when the solutions are staring them in the face.  Here are some better ideas.

 

1. Shorten the season back to 154 games like it was prior to 1961

2. Get rid of the DH. There is absolutely no reason to have pitchers whiffing at the ball during the regular season in one league meanwhile the other one allows the DH. Just silly considering that the NL and AL have been totally merged under the commissioner for 20 seasons now.  

3. Bring two more teams into the league and balance the NL and AL to 16 teams each. Some reorganization will be necessary.

4. Get rid of inter-league play as it drags out the season and is mostly pointless.

5. Cut back the commercials to the bare minimum and get as close to a 2 hour game average as possible. No more ridiculous 4 hour games during the regular season. The NHL and NBA have it right around 2 hours.  Even AAA is more reasonable at has 2-1/4 - 2-1/2 hour games.  Idea is to speed up play.

6. If a batter steps out of the box at any time during the at-bat (except in the case of a hit, equipment failure, injury or being hit by a pitch) he is automatically out. Idea is to speed up play.

7. If a pitcher steps off the mound after an at-bat has commenced it is an automatic walk for the batter (except in case of an injury or equipment failure). Idea is to speed up play.

[Vanimal46]

I don't see what the huge uproar is all about. I'm old school, but They're not going back to 2 leagues, winners make the WS. Expansion of the postseason has been going on for a long time now, and further expansion is probably inevitable.

 

They'd be adding 2 teams per league to the postseason, which is probably a bad idea overall, but understandable from a money and marketing perspective. If they're going to add 2 teams, this isn't a terrible idea. I actually like the idea of the better teams getting the chance to pick their opponant. Best record, and winning your division, would still matter. Best of three instead of 1 game shots for the first round.

After sleeping on this, the thing I disagree with most on this proposal is 7 teams making the playoffs. If they want to manufacture DRAMA by having a live TV event to select the playoff matchups, fine. At the end of the day it’s not a big deal.

 

Expanding to 7 teams, however, takes drama away from the regular season. Specifically the pennant race in September. I’m not excited about watching 2-3 82 win teams fight for the last playoff spot.

[Taildragger8791]

I'm not a fan of diluting the playoff field any further. Since the wildcard expansion I haven't been too disappointed with teams missing the postseason that really deserved to be there.You have 162 games (should be 154) to make your case and earn a spot. Make that long grueling 6 months of hard work and competition count for something. Considering how volatile and random baseball is, I think that large sample size does a good job weeding out the weaker teams that don't deserve even a roll of the dice in the postseason.

 

Expanding the WC round to a 3-game series makes sense to me though.

 

A made-for-television Bachelor-style selection ceremony for postseason opponents is stupid, but whatever. I won't lose any sleep over it but I'll certainly make fun of it. It just screams misguided out-of-touch leadership to me.

[4twinsJA]

Hate idea of picking opponent, are we at recess on playground. Shorten season to 154 games, start postseason earlier, go to 6 playoff qualifiers- I don't like one game playoff, but don't know if 3 game series  with 4 teams getting 5-6 day layoff is the answer either. Here's one from leftfield, how about playing first game of World Series at neutral site?

[Taildragger8791]

 

Wow! Absolutely stupid. Hate this awful idea. They are really grasping at straws now when the solutions are staring them in the face.  Here are some better ideas.

 

1. Shorten the season back to 154 games like it was prior to 1961

2. Get rid of the DH. There is absolutely no reason to have pitchers whiffing at the ball during the regular season in one league meanwhile the other one allows the DH. Just silly considering that the NL and AL have been totally merged under the commissioner for 20 seasons now.  

3. Bring two more teams into the league and balance the NL and AL to 16 teams each. Some reorganization will be necessary.

4. Get rid of inter-league play as it drags out the season and is mostly pointless.

5. Cut back the commercials to the bare minimum and get as close to a 2 hour game average as possible. No more ridiculous 4 hour games during the regular season. The NHL and NBA have it right around 2 hours.  Even AAA is more reasonable at has 2-1/4 - 2-1/2 hour games.  Idea is to speed up play.

6. If a batter steps out of the box at any time during the at-bat (except in the case of a hit, equipment failure, injury or being hit by a pitch) he is automatically out. Idea is to speed up play.

7. If a pitcher steps off the mound after an at-bat has commenced it is an automatic walk for the batter (except in case of an injury or equipment failure). Idea is to speed up play.

 

Regarding #3, I know it'll never happen (because money) but I'd rather see the League contracted by 4 teams than expanded by 2. There's not enough talent to go around anyways, so rather than dilute the talent let's concentrate it. Shed a few crummy markets/franchises along the way.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Relegation would solve the tanking problem. Three 10-team divisions. Bottom 2 (or 3) teams get relegated each year and top 2 or 3 promoted. Lower divisions get less TV/advertising money, so there is a strong incentive to avoid the bottom spots. Could add a firm salary cap to mitigate the "rich get richer" implications.

 

Playoffs would have a few teams from the first division, plus the champions of divisions 2 and 3. If division 3 champ wins the World Series it gets a double promotion to division 1.

 

I've been kicking an idea like this around in my head for a while. I like the way you've laid it out. It'll never happen but it would be more fun to watch your non-contender team playing competitively within their division and having something to play for rather than getting smashed in the mouth for 6 months on their way to 95 losses. I'd even consider splitting up the season into 2-3 parts with mid-season promotions/demotions for the best/worst teams in each division, then determine the playoff field from the top teams during each slice of the season. Again, better than watching your team 20 games out of any meaningful contention in August/September. Would give teams on the rise or that dealt with health/adversity issues early on something to push for and reduces the benefit to tanking.

[twinsfanstreif]

I have never hated a sports rule change proposal more than this. This is epically bad and I hope this gets seriously laughed out of the room

[gunnarthor]

 

What is this, The Bachelor? Will the Yankees give the Twins a rose every year in the playoffs? This is a bad idea.

Hate this idea so much

[Musk21]

What I dislike most about the current playoff structure is the 1 game wild-card format. I'd even be fine with expanding it to 6 teams with a format similar to the NFL.

 

1. Add 1 expansion team to both AL and NL.

2. Create 4 divisions in each league, each with 4 teams.

3. Shorten the season to 154 games.

4. Playoffs consist of 4 division winners & 2 wild-cards. Top 2 division winners get a bye.

5. Wild-Card round is a best-of-3 series all hosted by the higher seed. #3 plays #6 and #4 plays #5.

6. Best of 5 in the divisional round, best of 7 in the LCS.

 

[JD Green]

Just because Rob Manfred woke up in the middle of the night and had an idea doesn't mean we have to use it.

[TFRazor]

 

There are better solutions to this problem, including, both a spending floor and a spending ceiling (something like floor is 75% of previous season's average and ceiling is 125%) and non-guaranteed contracts.

 

The Players' Union would probably agree to the spending floor, but there isn't a snowball's chance in Tijuana that you'd get them to agree to non-guaranteed contracts.

[USAFChief]

 

Relegation would solve the tanking problem. Three 10-team divisions. Bottom 2 (or 3) teams get relegated each year and top 2 or 3 promoted. Lower divisions get less TV/advertising money, so there is a strong incentive to avoid the bottom spots. Could add a firm salary cap to mitigate the "rich get richer" implications.

 

Playoffs would have a few teams from the first division, plus the champions of divisions 2 and 3. If division 3 champ wins the World Series it gets a double promotion to division 1.

"Relegation" is a terrible idea. "Lower divisions" is a terrible idea.

 

I don't want a system whereby the big money teams are "the major leagues," and everyone else is considered AAA.

 

Really, really bad idea. It's an argument for one 10 team major league. 

 

 

[Yoke]

I think they should get rid of the National League and American League, and just have one big league. Top 12 teams make the playoffs (same format as the current playoffs).

 

Next 8 teams make a single elim tournament for an additional first round draft pick. I don't know what number pick you'd make it.

 

Maybe that'd lead to less tanking. Then you're either building for the playoffs, or building to try to get another draft pick. Fewer teams trying to finish in the bottom 3rd of the league.

[Craig Arko]

How long would this prolong the postseason? Thanksgiving Day baseball?

[Vanimal46]

 

What I dislike most about the current playoff structure is the 1 game wild-card format. I'd even be fine with expanding it to 6 teams with a format similar to the NFL.

 

1. Add 1 expansion team to both AL and NL.

2. Create 4 divisions in each league, each with 4 teams.

3. Shorten the season to 154 games.

4. Playoffs consist of 4 division winners & 2 wild-cards. Top 2 division winners get a bye.

5. Wild-Card round is a best-of-3 series all hosted by the higher seed. #3 plays #6 and #4 plays #5.

6. Best of 5 in the divisional round, best of 7 in the LCS.

 

Would you like a job as the Commissioner of MLB? Your idea makes way more sense than the idea he pitched. NFL does so many wrong things PR-wise, but they have nailed the ideal playoff format. When 6 out of 16 teams make the playoffs, it's still a privilege to make it in the first place. That's the balance baseball needs to learn. If they go too far, then they're like NBA and NHL where half of the teams make the playoffs. Then it's actually more impressive to MISS the playoffs! 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Relegation would solve the tanking problem. Three 10-team divisions. Bottom 2 (or 3) teams get relegated each year and top 2 or 3 promoted. Lower divisions get less TV/advertising money, so there is a strong incentive to avoid the bottom spots. Could add a firm salary cap to mitigate the "rich get richer" implications.

 

Playoffs would have a few teams from the first division, plus the champions of divisions 2 and 3. If division 3 champ wins the World Series it gets a double promotion to division 1.

 

Zero chance of relegation given that TV is the major source of revenue. Zero chance.

[Mike Sixel]

I have a rather long proposal on a computer someplace that lays out my plan for, essentially, two seasons.

 

The regular season winner is really the best team anyway.......assuming you mean best team during the season. 

 

Then there is a second season, with a playoff, that every team makes. Obviously, the best teams from the long season get byes and other advantages......

 

But pretending that the current process identifies the BEST team is silly. What is best? Best over the whole year? Best in the playoffs (which, we all know, even the best team doesn't win every time, thankfully)? Most healthy at the end of the year? Deepest at the end of the year, so they can overcome injuries? Nothing about the playoffs identifies the BEST team in baseball.

[Mike Sixel]

As for the draft changes above, that dooms the worst teams to not getting the best players. No way is that a good idea for the long term good of the most number of teams.

 

I also have a LONG article someplace about how to convert the draft into a more fair process for the teams and the players, involving allowing certain teams to bid on the best players, but not other teams. It kind of combines a draft and an auction. If even 1 person says they want to see it, I'll find it.

[Dman]

 

I have a rather long proposal on a computer someplace that lays out my plan for, essentially, two seasons.

 

The regular season winner is really the best team anyway.......assuming you mean best team during the season. 

 

Then there is a second season, with a playoff, that every team makes. Obviously, the best teams from the long season get byes and other advantages......

 

But pretending that the current process identifies the BEST team is silly. What is best? Best over the whole year? Best in the playoffs (which, we all know, even the best team doesn't win every time, thankfully)? Most healthy at the end of the year? Deepest at the end of the year, so they can overcome injuries? Nothing about the playoffs identifies the BEST team in baseball.

 

I am with you to some degree here.  Baseball is such a long season is just surviving it with the best record throughout the year mean you are the best team?  Looking to football as an example teams grow over the season.  Maybe a young team starts the year out poorly but gels later and gets into the playoffs and wins it all Like the Giants did over the undefeated Patriots.  Who was the best team that year the wild card team or the team with best record?

 

To me if a team has been good enough during the year (i.e. at least over .500)  then why shouldn't they get a shot?  If they are soo bad then they could never upset the other team anyway, right?  If they do have a shot isn't that part of the excitement and unpredictability of the playoffs?

 

I fail to see how the watered down analogy applies. I think the new format would help with tanking and should again allow fans to be more interested in how their teams are doing longer into the season as it will take longer to be truly eliminated. I personally think the change could be very good for baseball.

 

 

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I have a rather long proposal on a computer someplace that lays out my plan for, essentially, two seasons.

 

The regular season winner is really the best team anyway.......assuming you mean best team during the season. 

 

Then there is a second season, with a playoff, that every team makes. Obviously, the best teams from the long season get byes and other advantages......

 

But pretending that the current process identifies the BEST team is silly. What is best? Best over the whole year? Best in the playoffs (which, we all know, even the best team doesn't win every time, thankfully)? Most healthy at the end of the year? Deepest at the end of the year, so they can overcome injuries? Nothing about the playoffs identifies the BEST team in baseball.

 

What the playoffs does do, however, is keep the drama going essentially until the final 2-3 games of the season, at worst.  Oftentimes, the drama goes into the final game, and sometimes even the final inning or final pitch.  This is something that is never guaranteed with leagues that crown a winner without playoffs--look at this year's EPL for example.  With 13 matches left, Liverpool has a 22 point lead (the equivalent of 7 matches).  That season is all but over--the only drama left is who will get relegated, and whether or not Liverpool can finish without a loss.

 

This new proposal does a few positive things;

 

1--It makes races at the top of each league hugely intense.  There is now a gigantic advantage to climbing up each rung of the ladder--1st seed gets a bye, 2nd seed gets their pick of any opponent, 3rd seed gets to choose an opponent, and 4th seed gets home-field advantage.

 

2--It incentivizes more teams in the 75-80 win range to try to get to the 80-85 win range, particularly if you re-wrote the rules to make playoff revenue shareable only amongst teams who make the playoffs.  If 14 teams make the playoffs, and split lets say a couple of hundred million dollars, making the playoffs or not is now worth an extra $10-$15M for a team

 

3--It keeps more fans interested.  From a national perspective, not many fans might have cared if the White Sox or the Angels could chase down the Rangers for the 7th spot last year.  Were I a White Sox or Angels fan, I may have wanted them to NOT chase down the Rangers.  But a lot of other people would, and they would buy a lot more tickets, concessions, and merch than I would.  Increased bottom lines for more teams is theoretically, a good thing.

 

4--It should help hasten rebuilds.  With more teams trying to improve before the trade deadline, and therefore fewer teams with players on the market, the price goes up, meaning tanking teams can more quickly accumulate assets, and resume competing for the playoffs.  Unless an organization is just terribly run, decade-long rebuilds will be a thing of the past.

 

One of the problems that baseball has right now is that too many teams have figured out that winning is not the best way To Win.  This, at least in my opinion, reduces the population of that lower class.  The Royals, Orioles, and Tigers will all still tank, but every other team will want a playoff spot, and the millions of extra revenue that come with it.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I am with you to some degree here.  Baseball is such a long season is just surviving it with the best record throughout the year mean you are the best team?  Looking to football as an example teams grow over the season.  Maybe a young team starts the year out poorly but gels later and gets into the playoffs and wins it all Like the Giants did over the undefeated Patriots.  Who was the best team that year the wild card team or the team with best record?

 

To me if a team has been good enough during the year (i.e. at least over .500)  then why shouldn't they get a shot?  If they are soo bad then they could never upset the other team anyway, right?  If they do have a shot isn't that part of the excitement and unpredictability of the playoffs?

 

I fail to see how the watered down analogy applies. I think the new format would help with tanking and should again allow fans to be more interested in how their teams are doing longer into the season as it will take longer to be truly eliminated. I personally think the change could be very good for baseball.

 

I agree with this.  To my mind, the NCAA tournament is the single best sporting event of the year.  Why?  Everyone gets a shot, and the amazing unpredictability makes for massively compelling storylines.  Are you telling me it wouldn't be fascinating to watch an 82 win White Sox team go into the Bronx, and take game 1 from a 109 win Yankees team?  What happens next?  Especially if you make a rule that in the best of three series, the higher seed gets to pick the one game they play on the road.  In this scenario, if the Yankees opted for games 1 and 2 at home, they now know they'll have to go to the South Side, and face 40,000 maniacally loud Chicagoans who want to see their plucky team topple the Empire.  Are you really telling me any true fan of baseball wouldn't find that compelling beyond measure?

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

Trevor Bauer on the proposed changes: “No idea who made this new playoff format proposal, but Rob is responsible for releasing it, so I’ll direct this to you, Rob Manfred. Your proposal is absurd for too many reasons to type on twitter and proves you have absolutely no clue about baseball. You’re a joke.“
Bauer is a loose cannon, but he’s right.

 

When someone says something is absurd for too many reasons, what they really mean is "I don't like this for reasons I can't explain, but I still want to say something, so I'll just go all hyperbolic, and include an insult for good measure".  This is the verbal equivalent of throwing a ball over the center field wall when your manager comes to remove you from the game.  Trevor Bauer was, and is, an immature person who throws tantrums when something he disagrees with happens; those people should be politely ignored, not heeded.

[Shaitan]

 

When someone says something is absurd for too many reasons, what they really mean is "I don't like this for reasons I can't explain, but I still want to say something, so I'll just go all hyperbolic, and include an insult for good measure".  This is the verbal equivalent of throwing a ball over the center field wall when your manager comes to remove you from the game.  Trevor Bauer was, and is, an immature person who throws tantrums when something he disagrees with happens; those people should be politely ignored, not heeded.

In a one on conversation, sure. But Twitter was invented specifically for those short hyperbolic statements.