Boston getting cold feet - Graterol's health puts blockbuster on pause

[akmanak]

The Twins have not backed out of the initial three-team trade that would send Mookie Betts from the Red Sox to the Dodgers, I'm told. They are willing to renegotiate and attempt to work through it, though whether it ultimately gets figured out is uncertain. All sides want a resolution by reporting date.

 

 

Alden Gonzalez, ESPN Staff Writer

2h ago

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I wonder how many people read the article on exchanging medicals earlier in the thread.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/how-baseball-teams-exchange-medical-information-after-agreeing-trade/Nu56T96T3GENiqQQs0amZN/story.html?outputType=amp

 

Balazovic is at least a year and a half before even making his MLB debut. Offer him, and paper over the difference with cash considerations if necessary. That’s what I would like to see happen if the Red Sox are absolutely refusing Graterol at this point. If the Twins won’t part with any of their other young arms for a nice starting pitcher like Maeda, then I will be non-impressed. It will remind me of the Dodgers and all their José de Leon stuff from a couple years ago.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The Twins have not backed out of the initial three-team trade that would send Mookie Betts from the Red Sox to the Dodgers, I'm told. They are willing to renegotiate and attempt to work through it, though whether it ultimately gets figured out is uncertain. All sides want a resolution by reporting date.

Alden Gonzalez, ESPN Staff Writer

2h ago

Sounds good!

[tlkriens]

 

It will remind me of the Dodgers and all their José de Leon stuff from a couple years ago.

And de Leon has had an injury riddled career.

[howieramone2]

This is alot more fun than free agency.

[akmanak]

I still believe the Twins should go for Maeda and they still should give up some players. Who those players are I have no idea but we need this guy because we are not going to get anyone else for this cheap.

 

Like I mentioned before you could have 10 prospects that are rated high do absolutely nothing when they hit the majors or you could have all of them make an impact. You just don't know and you also can't horde them.

 

The Twins need to turn the corner and I believe picking this guy up will achieve the that.

[Squirrel]

 

From MLBTR:

“MLB Network’s Jon Heyman suggests that the Twins have expressed a willingness to one of their top-20 prospects to push the deal across the goal line, but even that hasn’t met the Red Sox’ heightened asking price.”

Seriously?!?!?!?!

Bloom can go **** himself if that’s true.

 

I think this is their game playing of getting out of it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I wonder how many people read the article on exchanging medicals earlier in the thread.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/how-baseball-teams-exchange-medical-information-after-agreeing-trade/Nu56T96T3GENiqQQs0amZN/story.html?outputType=amp

 

Balazovic is at least a year and a half before even making his MLB debut. Offer him, and paper over the difference with cash considerations if necessary. That’s what I would like to see happen if the Red Sox are absolutely refusing Graterol at this point. If the Twins won’t part with any of their other young arms for a nice starting pitcher like Maeda, then I will be non-impressed. It will remind me of the Dodgers and all their José de Leon stuff from a couple years ago.

The fact this hasn’t happened suggests to me Falvey is very high on Balazovic.

[Squirrel]

 

The fact this hasn’t happened suggests to me Falvey is very high on Balazovic.

 

And it was already reported that Balazovic isn't someone the Twins are willing to part with and isn't on the table as either a substitution for Graterol or as an addition to Graterol. The addition to, though, is a huge over ask, imo. I think this is what Boston is doing ... asking for too much, intentionally.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

And it was already reported that Balazovic isn't someone the Twins are willing to part with and isn't on the table as either a substitution for Graterol or as an addition to Graterol. The addition to, though, is a huge over ask, imo. I think this is what Boston is doing ... asking for too much, intentionally.

I missed those other links eliminating Balazovic, sorry. Personally I do think the Twins have good rotation prospects closer to the majors.

 

But...

 

Get ‘er done!

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

And people wonder why most of us normal people hate the ****ing Red Sox. Entitled, self righteous twats.

Bloom can pound sand, what a complete tool.

This reeks of John Henry not Bloom.  Henry brought in Bloom(a Freidman clone) to clean up the finances, re-build the minors, and get the team younger after Dombroski did what he always does.  Now Henry has got in the middle of this deal and PO'd 3 teams, agents, the player's union and MLB too I'm sure.  The Red Sox specifically asked for Graterol.  The entire baseball world knows he projects as a closer.  His last pitch was 101 mph.  The East coast media goes to bed before Verdugo even plays and has no idea that he's as good as Benintendi but with a better arm.  Henry hears the negative reactions and then sticks his nose in rather than letting Bloom do his job.  The Twins do more than they should have and offered another top 20 prospect.  The Red Sox were getting out of $43 million plus luxury tax penalties, gaining a kid who is going to hit .300 for the next 5 years plus a  future closer for a rental.  

[David HK]

 

I suggest you read this:

“How baseball teams exchange medical information, and what it means for the Mookie Betts trade”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/how-baseball-teams-exchange-medical-information-after-agreeing-trade/Nu56T96T3GENiqQQs0amZN/story.html?outputType=amp

Cheers for the info. I did not know all of those particulars. Glad to find that out.

 

But it doesn't change my opinion that they're still using this as a face-saving scramble.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Well its official the Twins pull out

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/twins-pull-out-of-mookie-betts-trade.html

Nope, not official. The MLBTR article references LEN3

 

http://m.startribune.com/brusdar-graterol-stays-with-twins-as-their-portion-of-baseball-megadeal-falling-through/567695262/

 

LEN3 says the Twins are pessimistic, they haven’t pulled out yet according to the source.

 

There may be other sources saying they’ve pulled out. Not that one.

[David HK]

 

And people wonder why most of us normal people hate the ****ing Red Sox. Entitled, self righteous twats.

Bloom can pound sand, what a complete tool.

Well put, even when translated from the original Canadian.

[Dman]

 

From MLBTR:

“MLB Network’s Jon Heyman suggests that the Twins have expressed a willingness to one of their top-20 prospects to push the deal across the goal line, but even that hasn’t met the Red Sox’ heightened asking price.”

Seriously?!?!?!?!

Bloom can go **** himself if that’s true.

 

Yeah it is time to get out of this deal.  Need to deal with a team that deals in reality not fantasy.  If Meada is awesome why aren't the Twins out and another team in?  I don't think Boston wants this deal to go through.  If they got two top 10 guys and Verdugo from LA for one year of Betts that would be robbery.  LA is also saving them from cap hell.  I say kill the deal and let them keep Mookie or let LA deal with there unrealistic demands.  Friedman would never give up two top ten prospects in this deal why should we?

[DodgerFan1234]

I still believe the Twins should go for Maeda and they still should give up some players. Who those players are I have no idea but we need this guy because we are not going to get anyone else for this cheap.

 

Like I mentioned before you could have 10 prospects that are rated high do absolutely nothing when they hit the majors or you could have all of them make an impact. You just don't know and you also can't horde them.

 

The Twins need to turn the corner and I believe picking this guy up will achieve the that.

Here’s what’s funny reading the Dodger boards all day, they completely agree. There are 2 main themes.

1. F the Red Sox

2. Graterol-Maeda should be done as a stand-alone if the Red Sox bail on the deal.

 

If you’ve watched the Dodgers fail in the playoffs oh I don’t know, the last 7 years you’d know that the bullpen falls a close second to trash cans as culprit. The Dodgers have plenty of starting pitching. Maeda would be a great in the bullpen but his contract incentivizes starts/innings. Graterol’s sinker is NASTY and he’d plug a hole in the same way Maeda will the Twins rotation. So a deal really works.

[Dman]

 

Here’s what’s funny reading the Dodger boards all day, they completely agree. There are 2 main themes.
1. F the Red Sox
2. Graterol-Maeda should be done as a stand-alone if the Red Sox bail on the deal.

If you’ve watched the Dodgers fail in the playoffs oh I don’t know, the last 7 years you’d know that the bullpen falls a close second to trash cans as culprit. The Dodgers have plenty of starting pitching. Maeda would be a great in the bullpen but his contract incentivizes starts/innings. Graterol’s sinker is NASTY and he’d plug a hole in the same way Maeda will the Twins rotation. So a deal really works.

 

The Dodgers are giving the Red Sox everything they could ever hope for what other team can step in and offer anything close to this?

[DodgerFan1234]

The Dodgers are giving the Red Sox everything they could ever hope for what other team can step in and offer anything close to this?

Right?!?

 

Look, it was a good deal for the Dodgers, better than I was anticipating. But my general rule in life is a deal is a deal. Dodgers don’t get back some compensation for Yonder Alvarez Ex post facto. Everything balances out over time. But we’ve seen a breakdown in good faith conduct across baseball and it’s troubling.

[Don Walcott]

The Red Sox need to come back to reality. I'm beginning to believe the opinion that they are caving to public pressure. I'm now remembering that ownership walked back comments from last fall saying they wanted to get under the luxury tax.

 

They are dumping Price. This is such a dump that they will still pay half of his salary, because nobody would pay any more than that. Would be one of the biggest salary meals a team has ever eaten.

 

They are trying to get something for Mookie because if they don't do it now, they'll never get anything for him, and there's no way he'll re-sign with Boston.

 

Minnesota is happy keeping Brusdar, or trading him for Maeda if the Dodgers are still game.

 

The Dodgers are perennial favorites to at least make the WS without this trade. And they probably would have won at least one recent WS if Boston and Houston weren't cheating. They are also probably the favorite to sign Mookie next off-season.

 

Boston has a terrible farm system, and they are about to lose the next two years of ##1 and 2 draft picks. Boston is also under incredible scrutiny from their fan base.

 

It seems to me that Boston have very little leverage to try to do any better than the original deal. I hope and expect the Twins and Dodgers to leave them twisting in the wind.

[DodgerFan1234]

The Red Sox need to come back to reality. I'm beginning to believe the opinion that they are caving to public pressure. I'm now remembering that ownership walked back comments from last fall saying they wanted to get under the luxury tax.

 

They are dumping Price. This is such a dump that they will still pay half of his salary, because nobody would pay any more than that. Would be one of the biggest salary meals a team has ever eaten.

 

They are trying to get something for Mookie because if they don't do it now, they'll never get anything for him, and there's no way he'll re-sign with Boston.

 

Minnesota is happy keeping Brusdar, or trading him for Maeda if the Dodgers are still game.

 

The Dodgers are perennial favorites to at least make the WS without this trade. And they probably would have won at least one recent WS if Boston and Houston weren't cheating. They are also probably the favorite to sign Mookie next off-season.

 

Boston has a terrible farm system, and they are about to lose the next two years of ##1 and 2 draft picks. Boston is also under incredible scrutiny from their fan base.

 

It seems to me that Boston have very little leverage to try to do any better than the original deal. I hope and expect the Twins and Dodgers to leave them twisting in the wind.

Friedman encountered a very similar situation 6 years ago when he traded Kemp for Grandal. Similarly it was leaked medicals about Kemp’s hips that put the trade on hold for 8 days. The Padres wanted more. Friedman said no. The trade closed without the Dodgers adding to the previously agreed deal. I don’t know why the Sox think this would end any differently. For better or worse (I think better) Friedman has in mind a deal and doesn’t cross that line at any cost. Some Dodger fans harp on his process as costing the Dodgers for a player that matters. But they also know he won’t budge. The real question is how the Dodgers/Sox (maybe Twins) construct a new deal that doesn’t cross said line but also let’s the Sox save face.

[twinsnorth49]

This reeks of John Henry not Bloom. Henry brought in Bloom(a Freidman clone) to clean up the finances, re-build the minors, and get the team younger after Dombroski did what he always does. Now Henry has got in the middle of this deal and PO'd 3 teams, agents, the player's union and MLB too I'm sure. The Red Sox specifically asked for Graterol. The entire baseball world knows he projects as a closer. His last pitch was 101 mph. The East coast media goes to bed before Verdugo even plays and has no idea that he's as good as Benintendi but with a better arm. Henry hears the negative reactions and then sticks his nose in rather than letting Bloom do his job. The Twins do more than they should have and offered another top 20 prospect. The Red Sox were getting out of $43 million plus luxury tax penalties, gaining a kid who is going to hit .300 for the next 5 years plus a future closer for a rental.

Don’t care, semantics. All of them can pound sand.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I don't disagree with this completely. But I do think their ask after concluding what many already had, that his chances as a starter are likely limited, was over the top. Graterol was 'damaged goods' to them, yet they still wanted him; PLUS another top 10 prospect? That was too much for Maeda, imo. They seemed unwilling to negotiate for anything comparable and wanted more at this point. That's where it was good MN said no.

Not damaged goods, just not likely to handle a starters workload thus less valuable in the eyes of Boston, hence the greater ask. I wasn't all that high on the deal when it was announced and I'm certainly not criticizing the Twins for pulling back; I think the asking price for Maeda was too much as well. I also don't think this was some elaborate play by the Red Sox, i.e. they didn't get "cold feet," and they didn't act in poor faith as far as we know. 

[David HK]

And now, the sports report for the future, April 24, 2020:

 

7:10 PM-- The weekend series between the Twins and Boston Red Sox gets underway.

 

7:11 PM-- Boston leadoff hitter takes his place at 1st base after being drilled in the seat of the pants by a fastball from Twins starter Bustah Gatorade.

 

Ahhh, sweet fantasy.....

[David HK]

You know, I was thinking of this classic scene ever since the BoSox started getting caned by their fans, then stepped into the flaming bag on their own doorstep--

 

To wit-- A view from inside the Boston Front Office:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3GBlVjUd0

[Riverbrian]

 

This reeks of John Henry not Bloom.  Henry brought in Bloom(a Freidman clone) to clean up the finances, re-build the minors, and get the team younger after Dombroski did what he always does.  Now Henry has got in the middle of this deal and PO'd 3 teams, agents, the player's union and MLB too I'm sure.  The Red Sox specifically asked for Graterol.  The entire baseball world knows he projects as a closer.  His last pitch was 101 mph.  The East coast media goes to bed before Verdugo even plays and has no idea that he's as good as Benintendi but with a better arm.  Henry hears the negative reactions and then sticks his nose in rather than letting Bloom do his job.  The Twins do more than they should have and offered another top 20 prospect.  The Red Sox were getting out of $43 million plus luxury tax penalties, gaining a kid who is going to hit .300 for the next 5 years plus a  future closer for a rental.  

 

I have no way of knowing but I am starting to believe quite strongly that this is exactly what happened. 

 

I honestly believe that Bloom agreed to the deal and I honestly believe that Henry is making his young GM squirm after the fact for doing exactly what he hired him to do. 

 

 

 

 

[jkcarew]

 

The fact this hasn’t happened suggests to me Falvey is very high on Balazovic.

Well that....and it just comes down to the starter vs reliever thing. This move wasn't about 2020, I don't think. (For one thing, Maeda isn't good enough to think he's going to be a huge needle-mover in the post-season.) Sure he helps, but it's more about Maeda's contract...and addressing a longer-term issue that is the starting pitching. I see this as opportunistic...and you're not going to take advantage by offering up someone that you think (Balazovic) is going to be a part of the solution. Likewise, you ARE willing to offer up someone (Graterol) who you don't think will be part of the solution.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well that....and it just comes down to the starter vs reliever thing. This move wasn't about 2020, I don't think. (For one thing, Maeda isn't good enough to think he's going to be a huge needle-mover in the post-season.) Sure he helps, but it's more about Maeda's contract...and addressing a longer-term issue that is the starting pitching. I see this as opportunistic...and you're not going to take advantage by offering up someone that you think (Balazovic) is going to be a part of the solution. Likewise, you ARE willing to offer up someone (Graterol) who you don't think will be part of the solution.

All true. Maeda is as much about 2021 and beyond as he is about this season.

 

The Twins can now let Odorizzi walk after 2020, which gives the Twins payroll flexibility without needing to scramble to patch three rotation spots in one offseason again.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Sorry, but this makes zero sense. No MLB team should EVER project a velocity-dependent pitcher with a TJ history, shoulder injury last year, and limited innings as a starting pitcher. Maybe it *could* happen in some cases, but no rational club would ever expect it. This doesn't add up at all.

A vast majority of pitchers are velocity dependent. When the gap between a fastball and an off-speed pitch starts to close decline is inevitable. TJ is far from a death sentence. MN is banking on Homer Bailey as a post TJ success story and already has another success story, Trevor May, on the roster. There are plenty of other guys that have come back from the surgery. 

 

Of course his innings have been limited, he had TJ as a 16 year old after pitching in the DOSL. Kids aren't racking up 200+ IPs in A ball, which is where he was prior to last season with the Twins. He'll be 21 this year, the fact he hasn't had the full workload of a SP shouldn't be that surprising. 

 

Every time a new pitcher is brought over to this organization we hear about how Falvey "sees something there," or "hopefully Wes Johnson unlocks X or tweaks Y." I'm not sure why you'd think Boston is immune from that thinking. Where MN viewed Graterol long term is irrelevant if Boston thought they were getting a SP prospect. The Sox reviewed the medicals, they didn't align with where they saw Graterol, so Boston balked. 

 

Again, if negative fan reaction to the OG deal was really what halted things, Boston wouldn't be trading Betts. There's no return that will please that fan base, nor should there be. If you want to believe that Bloom was willing to risk his personal and professional reputation, as well as that of the Red Sox, just to add a former 3rd round pick in Connor Wong to their organization, go right ahead. I would lean towards the notion that the most simple explanation is likely the correct one. 

[Kanonen80]

I stumbled across a really neat baseball YouTube channel that focuses on history and stats. "Outta Here Baseball" had an interesting breakdown of Graterol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRso_YBzBA8