Front Page: Twins Front Office Testing Fate in Waiting

[Mr. Brooks]

It`s a reasonable opinion, Which I believe is pretty on. I`m a family man & if I had the opportunity of a ton of money w/ a chance to make close to 100 million. The extra millions would not make me choose a team far from family. I`d love to give tickets away to family to come watch me play on a daily basis. & I`m saying Donaldson is like me for what I`ve see n

So, speculation.

That's fine, I was just checking because your post was stated as if it were factual knowledge.

[h2oface]

Thad Levine told Hayes, “The one thing we’ve learned over the years is that you can’t just have a Plan A. Tomorrow’s Plan B becomes the next day’s Plan A.” Derek Falvey went on to suggest he “may rue the day I ever mentioned that (impact) as a singular word.”

 

Talk talk talk. Actions mean something. Talk, not so much. Hurry up and wait. 

I hope, as little as I expect it, that our young pitchers have actually been 'identified' by the pitching experts, and surprise us all, because that is the impact that is left.

[ewen21]

 

First, the narrative was he wouldn't leave the west coast. Then he goes to Toronto and you're telling us this spin job. He went where he got the most money.

 

What would it have taken? A better offer than Toronto, which we never made. There is no evidence we were the highest bidder on any FA we missed on and got turned down because they didn't want to play in MN. If our offers are less, of course no one will sign here. And if they're equal they probably won't either. If you want to play in FA, you have to overpay. 

"the narrative" was not created by me and I am not beholden to it.  At no point did I weigh in on Ryu wanting to stay on the west coast, but I can totally see it.  It is not "spin job" to say it makes sense Ryu ended up in Toronto. Not to me, at least. There are a lot of Asians in Toronto.  I know this.  I have lived in upstate NY for almost my whole life and have met my share of Ontarians.  Ryu going to Toronto makes sense to me.  I don't feel the need to explain it to you any further.

 

As far as overpaying for a free agent, when I am inspired by a particular player that I think fits and makes sense I will call for the Twins to overpay.  You have called for them to overpay for ALL OF the five guys discussed this winter.  That is your strategy and it makes no sense to me.  Battle on, though....I like the emotion.  Would have liked to see you join me after the 3-and-out but I guess that didn't upset you quite as much as not signing free agents this winter.  That is just odd to me, but I respect the fact that you complain--even if I don't think it makes any sense at all for each of the five guys we did not sign  Not one bit of sense.

[Mike Sixel]

"the narrative" was not created by me and I am not beholden to it. At no point did I weigh in on Ryu wanting to stay on the west coast, but I can totally see it. It is not "spin job" to say it makes sense Ryu ended up in Toronto. Not to me, at least. There are a lot of Asians in Toronto. I know this. I have lived in upstate NY for almost my whole life and have met my share of Ontarians. Ryu going to Toronto makes sense to me. I don't feel the need to explain it to you any further.

 

As far as overpaying for a free agent, when I am inspired by a particular player that I think fits and makes sense I will call for the Twins to overpay. You have called for them to overpay for ALL OF the five guys discussed this winter. That is your strategy and it makes no sense to me. Battle on, though....I like the emotion. Would have liked to see you join me after the 3-and-out but I guess that didn't upset you quite as much as not signing free agents this winter. That is just odd to me, but I respect the fact that you complain--even if I don't think it makes any sense at all for each of the five guys we did not sign Not one bit of sense.

Not all five, one of the five. Or the money goes to the owners. Players or owners. I'd rather they add players.

[ewen21]

 

So, speculation.
That's fine, I was just checking because your post was stated as if it were factual knowledge.

It's going to be cold tomorrow.  THat's speculation, too.

 

HOnestly, man.  You seem utterly incredulous too what the guy just said.  I tend to believe that if you have 6 or 7 million dollars tucked away and aren't a complete stooge you can write your own ticket. I am willing to bet Donaldson isn't the greedy pig you assume that he is.  I am willing to bet his family and his personal desires go beyond just money at this point.  The guy has money already.  He has a killer pension.  What don't you get?

 

 

[ewen21]

 

Not all five, one of the five. Or the money goes to the owners. Players or owners. I'd rather they add players.

 

Let's say we signed Donaldson to the 4/110 deal he wanted and we outbid Toronto and signed Ryu to 4/100.  Would that have satisfied you?

[Mike Sixel]

Let's say we signed Donaldson to the 4/110 deal he wanted and we outbid Toronto and signed Ryu to 4/100. Would that have satisfied you?

I would not have signed Donaldson if they paid that much for a pitcher

[ewen21]

I would not have signed Donaldson if they paid that much for a pitcher

Do you think we should have went higher to get Ryu?

[Mr. Brooks]

It's going to be cold tomorrow. THat's speculation, too.

 

HOnestly, man. You seem utterly incredulous too what the guy just said. I tend to believe that if you have 6 or 7 million dollars tucked away and aren't a complete stooge you can write your own ticket. I am willing to bet Donaldson isn't the greedy pig you assume that he is. I am willing to bet his family and his personal desires go beyond just money at this point. The guy has money already. He has a killer pension. What don't you get?

Not sure where you got "greedy pig" from anything I said.

 

I simply asked for clarification on whether he was speculating, or posting something factual that he read somewhere. That's it.

[USAFChief]

"the narrative" was not created by me and I am not beholden to it. At no point did I weigh in on Ryu wanting to stay on the west coast, but I can totally see it. It is not "spin job" to say it makes sense Ryu ended up in Toronto. Not to me, at least. There are a lot of Asians in Toronto. I know this. I have lived in upstate NY for almost my whole life and have met my share of Ontarians. Ryu going to Toronto makes sense to me. I don't feel the need to explain it to you any further.

 

As far as overpaying for a free agent, when I am inspired by a particular player that I think fits and makes sense I will call for the Twins to overpay. You have called for them to overpay for ALL OF the five guys discussed this winter. That is your strategy and it makes no sense to me. Battle on, though....I like the emotion. Would have liked to see you join me after the 3-and-out but I guess that didn't upset you quite as much as not signing free agents this winter. That is just odd to me, but I respect the fact that you complain--even if I don't think it makes any sense at all for each of the five guys we did not sign Not one bit of sense.

what does "a lot of Asians in Toronto" have to do with anything?

 

And for the record, Ryu is Korean. Not "Asian."

 

But I doubt that had much if anything to do with him signing with Toronto.

[ewen21]

what does "a lot of Asians in Toronto" have to do with anything?

 

And for the record, Ryu is Korean. Not "Asian."

 

But I doubt that had much if anything to do with him signing with Toronto.

Korea is in Asia, Chief. I know that Toronto has a very large Asian population, but more importantly, it also has close to 100,000 South Koreans. He doesn’t speak English. He speaks Korean.

 

You can doubt the importance of this fact all you want. Why would he not want to be in a place where there is a community of people who can feel at home with and socialize with? Another place that wouldn’t have surprised me is with the Mets. There is perhaps an even larger Korean community in Queens.

 

You can get on your high horse and insist this isn’t a factor. I tend to be more open to things like this whereas you are a “money talks” kind of guy. I believe in that to an extent, but it’s not EVERYTHING.

 

You’ll learn eventually.

[VATwinsFan]

Looking at the relative amount of improvement or lack there of, I'm guessing that without a big trade to get an established starter for the Twins, we're back to the days of brawling with the ChiSox over the division title with Cleveland on the outside looking in.

 

 

[USAFChief]

 

Korea is in Asia, Chief. 

I know. I spoke Korean for a living in the Air Force. Lived 60 miles south of Seoul for two years. I can guarantee you he doesn't identify with other "Asians." Ask a Korean how he feels about the Japanese occupation of Korea, for example.

 

And per this report, there were 21000 Koreans in MN as of 2014:

 

 https://www.tcdailyplanet.net/community-health-overview-korean-americans/

 

You're just rationalizing. Finding excuses for why the Twin can't sign any free agents of note. That's your right, of course, but I'm going to point out the holes in your excuses. That's my right.

 

And in this case, I'm willing to wager I know a great deal more about Korea, and Koreans, than you.

[jorgenswest]

Ryu is the one top pitcher that the Twins could have signed and they failed to recognize it early enough. Had they gone after him first they might have signed him at better than 4/80 but even late they could have gone 4/90 and signed him.

 

I get the arguments that It would be a mistake to sign Ryu to 4/90. I don’t buy the arguments that no one would come to Minnesota. The Twins need to do a better job of identifying that player early before they are they have the leverage of the last remaining option in free agency.

[sweetmusicviola16]

Bottom line is we got no "impact" pitching, positive impact anyway. So how about our FO puts their money where their mouths are. We keep hearing about our prospects and how good they are and blah blah blah. Lets see them sign up Lewis, Kiriloff and Larnach for 6 year terms like CWS has done with Jimenez and Robert. If this is what we believe in, then show us. Enough of talk about windows and impact. Enough of shoving BS up ours.

[ewen21]

I know. I spoke Korean for a living in the Air Force. Lived 60 miles south of Seoul for two years. I can guarantee you he doesn't identify with other "Asians." Ask a Korean how he feels about the Japanese occupation of Korea, for example.

 

And per this report, there were 21000 Koreans in MN as of 2014:

 

https://www.tcdailyplanet.net/community-health-overview-korean-americans/

 

You're just rationalizing. Finding excuses for why the Twin can't sign any free agents of note. That's your right, of course, but I'm going to point out the holes in your excuses. That's my right.

 

And in this case, I'm willing to wager I know a great deal more about Korea, and Koreans, than you.

I defer to your formidable knowledge of Korean, but I must say I’m stunned that you reject the notion that Toronto’s fairly large Korean community had little to do with his decision. If he were a fluent speaker of English I’d not even bring it up. He isn’t.

 

This is born out of the same notion that urban enclaves form to give immigrant groups an easier transition. All kinds of ethic groups have done this from time immemorial.

 

Another 10 or 15 million likely wasn’t going to land him. And had we done it that would have proven to be a mistake.

[nicksaviking]

 

I defer to your formidable knowledge of Korean, but I must say I’m stunned that you reject the notion that Toronto’s fairly large Korean community had little to do with his decision. If he were a fluent speaker of English I’d not even bring it up. He isn’t.

This is born out of the same notion that urban enclaves form to give immigrant groups an easier transition. All kinds of ethic groups have done this from time immemorial.

Another 10 or 15 million likely wasn’t going to land him. And had we done it that would have proven to be a mistake.

 

I tend to think Ryu chose Toronto because they gave him the best offer; with his injury history I'd find it quite likely that no other clubs, including the Twins, were willing to match the years they gave him. But if he did happen choose Toronto in part because of non-monetary reasons, I might think their indoor stadium may have played as big or bigger role than whatever we are using to measure the size of various city's Korean communities.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Toronto has a HUGE Asian community so that likely helped them in signing Ryu.  We have no idea how much of an influence that had on him, but they are excited to have him:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-s-korean-community-excited-after-blue-jays-sign-star-pitcher-hyun-jin-ryu-1.4745115?cache=yes%3FclipId%3D104056%3FclipId%3D1723871%3FclipId%3D104070

 

You seem to be hung up on WE DIDN'T OFFER HIM ENOUGH MONEY.  What do you think it would have taken?  Also, do you understand he has pitched more than 90 innings twice in the last five seasons?  I am kind of mystified as to how you or anyone could be so up in arms about not giving a pitcher like this 100 million dollars.  Please explain that one.

That kind of stuff doesn't matter if you blow their doors off with cash. 

 

I can't understand how just NO ONE wants to play in Minnesota for the Twins. However, any time there is a free agent in football that we want, the Vikings have ZERO problem getting them here. That is narrative pushed by the Twins, nothing more.

 

I am not saying throw big money all the time, but if you want someone, give them the very best offer JUST ONCE and see what happens. I bet pretty soon their horses decide they like Minnesota summers and the plentiful alfalfa we have here. 

[ewen21]

Ryu is the one top pitcher that the Twins could have signed and they failed to recognize it early enough. Had they gone after him first they might have signed him at better than 4/80 but even late they could have gone 4/90 and signed him.

 

I get the arguments that It would be a mistake to sign Ryu to 4/90. I don’t buy the arguments that no one would come to Minnesota. The Twins need to do a better job of identifying that player early before they are they have the leverage of the last remaining option in free agency.

I’m not saying NO ONE WANTS TO COME TO MINNESOTA. I’ve looked at each FA signing this winter and each FA seemed to have a preference. Minnesota wasn’t one of them.

 

And that’s no “excuse”

It’s just reality. The way things are set up we are one of the many teams at a distinct disadvantage and it goes further than just money—although money is big factor

[nicksaviking]

 

That kind of stuff doesn't matter if you blow their doors off with cash. 

 

I can't understand how just NO ONE wants to play in Minnesota for the Twins. However, any time there is a free agent in football that we want, the Vikings have ZERO problem getting them here. That is narrative pushed by the Twins, nothing more.

 

I am not saying throw big money all the time, but if you want someone, give them the very best offer JUST ONCE and see what happens. I bet pretty soon their horses decide they like Minnesota summers and the plentiful alfalfa we have here. 

 

I don't think the problem isn't that no one wants to play here, it's that they have other destinations they have their eyes already on.

 

But as far as the NFL goes, they have a salary cap and salary floor, players can't be as particular where they go. But I think equally as important, the Midwest is not significantly behind other regions in producing football or basketball players. It's why the Big 10 is competitive in football and basketball, but they're always a doormat when it comes to baseball. The Pac 12, SEC and ACC kick their butt every time, I don't think it's a coincidence that those are the same regions the pro players also tend to lean towards.

[Battle ur tail off]

Could be onto something there. Obviously the south is where the best baseball/softball is played. 

 

 

[howeda7]

 

"the narrative" was not created by me and I am not beholden to it.  At no point did I weigh in on Ryu wanting to stay on the west coast, but I can totally see it.  It is not "spin job" to say it makes sense Ryu ended up in Toronto. Not to me, at least. There are a lot of Asians in Toronto.  I know this.  I have lived in upstate NY for almost my whole life and have met my share of Ontarians.  Ryu going to Toronto makes sense to me.  I don't feel the need to explain it to you any further.

 

As far as overpaying for a free agent, when I am inspired by a particular player that I think fits and makes sense I will call for the Twins to overpay.  You have called for them to overpay for ALL OF the five guys discussed this winter.  That is your strategy and it makes no sense to me.  Battle on, though....I like the emotion.  Would have liked to see you join me after the 3-and-out but I guess that didn't upset you quite as much as not signing free agents this winter.  That is just odd to me, but I respect the fact that you complain--even if I don't think it makes any sense at all for each of the five guys we did not sign  Not one bit of sense.

Who said we should sign all 5? Now you're just making things up. We have a payroll of $110 million. We should have a payroll of $140-150 million. We desperately need one more top-end starting pitcher. All any of us asked is that we sign ONE of them. Signing Donaldson doesn't address the issue, but would make our offense lethal and perhaps make us more willing to make a trade for one. As it is the Twins are going to pocket the $30 million they said they would spend on impact pitching and do nothing. That benefits no one who's not a Pohlad heir.

[ewen21]

That kind of stuff doesn't matter if you blow their doors off with cash.

 

That’s the problem. Any team can do that in baseball and baseball players get absurd amounts of guaranteed money. There comes a point where money doesn’t matter as much to the players and other factors play into it. If we were talking about the difference between 60,000 and 80,000 that’s significant. When it gets into the silly numbers (where baseball is now) other factors start to play into it more and more.

[Richard Swerdlick]

Patience, Grasshopper, Patience. Lots of time yet for trades if we go that route. Otherwise it may be time to find out what the prospects are capable of. Spring training cannot come soon enough.

[mg2636@comcast.net]

Four Years $120M. Front load the contract so he earns say $100M to $106M in the first three years. Mutual option for the balance of the contract in year four. If both he and the team are happy he can earn more than he would at age 38 on the open market in year four. Twins get their guy, he gets all (or nearly all) his money in the first three years and the fourth year is gravy if everyone is still happy. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Four Years $120M. Front load the contract so he earns say $100M to $106M in the first three years. Mutual option for the balance of the contract in year four. If both he and the team are happy he can earn more than he would at age 38 on the open market in year four. Twins get their guy, he gets all (or nearly all) his money in the first three years and the fourth year is gravy if everyone is still happy.

 

Too steep for me — but I get where you are coming from.

[purplesoldier4u]

 

"and have added to the point they are better now than when the season ended."

 

A few days ago you asked why there was so much pessimism about the Twins off-season. This may be where the disparity lies. I for one do not agree the Twins have improved the team (yet) this off-season. 

 

We replaced a decent catcher with a backup catcher. Added an aged, injured, pitcher who may or may not produce and is guaranteed to miss the first couple months. Swapped back-end starters (Gibson for Bailey). Added a reliever (reminiscent of last years Blake Parker signing). Where have we improved? The only thing we have going for us is the vaunted "payroll flexibility". Absent at least one more significant move we're no better off than last year and arguably worse. 

In addition, Cron and Schoop were relatively high-impact bats during the first half of 2019.

[howieramone2]

Ted, no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.