Twins are going to get a couple of guys like Tehran and Homer Bailey, then by July one of them will be cut and the other will have an average season and the Twins will find another guy out of the independent leagues who will surprise everyone for a month and then fade away down the stretch.

I like Berrios, but to be honest he is no more than a 2-3 starter on most playoff teams. Almost Radke like in a sense. We called Radke our ace for so many years.

That’s because he was.

 

This has nothing to do with the Twins or Berrios. The best offer for Kluber across the entire league was a backup outfielder and middle reliever. So out of 30 teams, 0 see him as an ace.

Odd since he was in the top three in Cy Young voting 3 of 4 years prior to last year's abbreviated season where he broke his arm.

The only teams I've read as rumored for a Kluber Trade besides the Rangers were the Dodgers and Angels. 

 

The Dodgers have 4th OF'ers and #30 type prospects coming out of their ears.

 

The Angels have to be desperate for pitching. 

 

Neither team was willing to exceed DeShields and Clase. 

 

It's clear that 17 Million is more than teams think he is worth, it's clear that teams were only kicking the tires here.

 

The Rangers finally decided to buy the tire. 

Texas can take on short term salary Money isn't an issue for them

Kluber had a bad April. It has happened before and he heated up as the season progressed. Texas made a fine deal. If the reliever is more than a middle reliever, Cleveland gets a solid reliever for 6 years. That may be more than fair for Cleveland

 

That’s because he was.

You forgot to mention all of his Cy Young awards and all those World Series he led us to. 

 

Odd since he was in the top three in Cy Young voting 3 of 4 years prior to last year's abbreviated season where he broke his arm.

 

So all 30 teams are delusionsal? Or something has changed? Which option makes more sense to you?

 

FYI, I think Pineda is eligible to return May 10th (game #40). And he is eligible to play in spring training, in the minors for 15 days before May 10th, so he should basically be 100% ready to go on May 10.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but PIneda can also participate in EST prior to his 15 day minor league assignment.  At that time of year, I believe they are playing games every day.  So yes, he should be 100% ready and stretched out when Game 40 arrives.

 

That’s because he was.

 

These are terms I wish could be changed.  There are very few true ACES in baseball, perhaps a half dozen or so in each league.  Every team has a #1 starter.  I have always thought of Radke as a #1 starter, but not an ACE.

 

So all 30 teams are delusionsal? Or something has changed? Which option makes more sense to you?

I guess we will find out  September 30 2020, eh?

FWIW, Kluber has a club option for 2021. It becomes an $18M vesting option if he has 160 IP and is not on the injured list at the end of 2020. Otherwise, it's a $1M buyout.

 

Emmanuel Clase has value. He's a 21 yr old RP with 6 yrs control and a 99 mph cut fastball/90 mph slider combo. High spin rates. He had a 2.31 ERA in 23.1 IP and 2.31 BB/9 for Texas last year. That's future closer potential.  (Yes, everything he did in 2019 involved the 2-3-1 sequence). 

 

So all 30 teams are delusionsal? Or something has changed? Which option makes more sense to you?

 

I'm saying it's odd that not one team would look at him as an ace considering his six year history but I can see how you would think I was attacking you.

 

I think if Cleveland is moving Kluber now they don't think he'll regain his trade value.

That is the strange element in it isn't it.  They must really need the money and can't risk being stuck paying it all if he's mediocre.

Salary dump, with great upside and low likelihood of it working. Still a good trade for Texas. If it doesn't work, they probably lost nothing that they can't replace. If it does work, bargain.

 

FWIW, Kluber has a club option for 2021. It becomes an $18M vesting option if he has 160 IP and is not on the injured list at the end of 2020. Otherwise, it's a $1M buyout.

 

Emmanuel Clase has value. He's a 21 yr old RP with 6 yrs control and a 99 mph cut fastball/90 mph slider combo. High spin rates. He had a 2.31 ERA in 23.1 IP and 2.31 BB/9 for Texas last year. That's future closer potential.  (Yes, everything he did in 2019 involved the 2-3-1 sequence). 

at least he doesn't wing the ball at 231 mph....

 

FWIW, Kluber has a club option for 2021. It becomes an $18M vesting option if he has 160 IP and is not on the injured list at the end of 2020. Otherwise, it's a $1M buyout.

 

Emmanuel Clase has value. He's a 21 yr old RP with 6 yrs control and a 99 mph cut fastball/90 mph slider combo. High spin rates. He had a 2.31 ERA in 23.1 IP and 2.31 BB/9 for Texas last year. That's future closer potential.  (Yes, everything he did in 2019 involved the 2-3-1 sequence). 

 

Here's a clip of his stuff: https://twitter.com/MLB/status/1206391456606371840

 

 

I'm saying it's odd that not one team would look at him as an ace considering his six year history but I can see how you would think I was attacking you.

 

I didn't take it as an attack, I'm just struggling to understand why no MLB teams consider him to be an ace? According to you he is one, right? But Cleveland got a minimal return. So either you are wrong, or everyone in MLB is wrong. Which is it?

 

I didn't take it as an attack, I'm just struggling to understand why no MLB teams consider him to be an ace? According to you he is one, right? But Cleveland got a minimal return. So either you are wrong, or everyone in MLB is wrong. Which is it?

 Which is it? how about it's we don't know who's wrong until the end of next season? I think that's a fair deal, how about you?

 

You forgot to mention all of his Cy Young awards and all those World Series he led us to. 

 

Actually, Radke got the Twins closer to a World Series than Johan Santana ever did.

The Indians won 93 games without Kluber while this improves their bullpen (maybe significantly if Clase can harness the Chapman like velocity/spin) and gives them much needed outfield depth. This frees up 17M for this season, Santana probably leaves next offseason freeing up another 20M. The Indians suddenly have some spending money.

 

I don't think they are rebuilding judging by how they insisted that they get 2020 ready players in return. They probably could have gotten a much better prospect who was further out from being ready. I think they keep Lindor for at least one more season.  It will be interesting to see what happens next. The Indians can compete with this team and some additions are likely. 

 

"With the way the finances in this deal work," Indians president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti said, "we will have more resources available to re-invest in our team and that's our expectation here as we head on into the rest of the winter is that we will continue to look for avenues to improve our Major League team, both in trades and in free agency."

 

the team sits just north of $90 million for next season. Last offseason, they decided to open the year with a $119.6 million payroll, which they felt was a more sustainable figure. If that is the sustainable mark, Cleveland now has some wiggle room with its budget and the club has indicated that it isn't just going to sit on the extra $17 million it now has lying around.

 

I don't think they are rebuilding judging by how they insisted that they get 2020 ready players in return.

Yup. And even if they did take prospects for Kluber, they still have Ramirez, Clevinger, Bieber, Hand... Lindor is available, but only for a high price. This team clearly isn't rebuilding. Maybe reloading?

I agree, Cleveland is not giving up on this year. I bet they sign two mid level free agents in the next two weeks.

The Baseball Trade Values site occasionally features articles, and they had an interesting one recently on pegging Kluber's value:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/inbox-why-is-corey-klubers-value-so-low-on-this-site/

 

Cleveland is not conducting a fire sale. They clearly intend on competing in 2020 and 2021, which is why they wanted Clase and Deshields. Clase has Graterol-like stuff, just made his debut, and Deshields is 27. 

 

I agree that it's not a huge return for Kluber but Kluber is almost 34, hardly pitched last year, and is owed almost 36 million this year and next. He wasn't going to fetch what Berrios would fetch in a trade.