Front Page: Twins Trades Show They've Got This Down

[sweetmusicviola16]

I'm with what darius said earlier. Pressley and Escobar would have looked very good on the 2019 and 2020 open window Twins. The Dozier trade? They shot for the moon the year they were hired and missed and ended up with a maybe bench guy and Smeltzer. Smeltzer looked good to start with but was getting hit pretty hard at the end. Chalmers? He reminds me of the guy they Rule5 drafted from Miami a couple years back. I'm not too excited.

 

I'm not saying these guys have done a bad job. They've been here 3 years now, it will take a couple more imo to see if what they are doing has worked. What Terry Ryan did must have worked since the present roster is mostly his.

[mike8791]

Sorry Ted, but this just doesn't pass the smell test.  The Wonder Boys have made exactly one - count them, one - trade of any significance in three years of stewardship.  Granted it was a good one - landing Odo for practically nothing.  But yet, that is a paucity of trade activity, isn't it?

 

While you might point out they contributed 7 new players to the 40 man by their dump "trades", how does the MAJOR LEAGUE RETURN look on those?  Wouldn't Escobar and Pressley fit in nicely to the current roster?  Twin managment, both Ryan and Falvine, have proven timid in their trading abilities.  You might even say inept when you look at the big bullpen pickup this year(Dyson)!  True, Falvine's reign is still ongoing, but their legacy in trades and free agency is still very much in question.  As everyone has noted, the window is wide open, now what?  Are we really going to be content with one series and out?

 

And while FA is certainly the other route to improvement, is the Falvine/Ryan method of waiting until spring training for the low-hanging fruit to fall still acceptable?  For once, why can't this franchise identify the one or two difference makers needed to push the team into serious World Series contention, make preeemptive strikes early and land the big fish rather than wait for the difference makers to be taken before striking.  When the moribund White Sox show their mettle and seriousness by beating the market to Grandal by signing him early, why can't the Twins identify those key cogs in FA to playoff success early and strike.  Sure they may have to overpay a bit but 28 years of futility is a  convincing argument to go for the brass ring, especially with a squad that won 101 games.  

I, for one, am tired of Twins timidity!  We had a great chance at midseason to put our foot on Cleveland by making some significant mid-season trades, but whiffed, letting Cleveland back into the race.  We got wiped out in the playoffs(again), partly due to the lineups' collective hand around their throats, but also because the Wonder Boys didn't pull the trigger on a Greinke or other available starters, nor did they heal a bleeding bulletin.  Duffys' five inherited runners scored in the playoffs, Littell's meltdown, and Dobnak's predictable start in Yankee Stadium were all major factors in the expected playoff swansong.  Nibbling around the edges is no longer acceptable!  We have a strong lineup, but it won't be enough to get us over the hump, Mr. Falvey.  Time to pay back your loyal fan base and earn your extension.  No time to rest on your laurels.

[sweetmusicviola16]

Ted, you failed to mention the Nick Anderson for Brian Schales trade of a year ago. How is that one working out for the Twins?

[jorgenswest]

I think they traded two months of Escobar control. Pressly is the one that hurt. It would have great to have his last year of control in 2019. Maybe they don’t have a need for Dyson and they retain those prospects.

 

The Twins didn’t have control of either for 2020.

[DavidGould]

What are you talked about? Both Escobar and dozier trades we got fleeced. And Falvey and Levine are notorious at getting ripped off in trades just like a Rosario for gray trade would be.. A RIP OFF FOR US... I’m so angry at this front office right now all this money and we’re looking at trades??? Are we dumb?? We should be spending in free agency so we can compete with the white Sox.. our roster currently won’t be able to beat Chicago at all

[Jham]

Sure Escobar would have been a nice fit this year instead of Marwin Gonzalez, but the Twins tried to resign him and he decided to stay in AZ.

 

Escobar was signed immediately following the 2018 season BEFORE he officially hit free agency. I remember this because many people on this site told me the Twins could always resign him at the end of the year and that having a player on your team gives you no advantage in trying to re-sign them.

[old nurse]

 

Twins traded Luis Gil to the Yankees for Jake Cave. Luis Gil is now the Yankees #4 prospect.

The same organization that ranks him as the 4th best Yankee prospect does not have him on a 100 best prospect list. I wouldn't get to bothered by a ranking. Definite high ceiling. Definite high risk with a lack of control.

[bird]

 

The same organization that ranks him as the 4th best Yankee prospect does not have him on a 100 best prospect list. I wouldn't get to bothered by a ranking. Definite high ceiling. Definite high risk with a lack of control.

 

 

Ironically, I read recently that NYY signed Zack Granite to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training, and I thought to myself that I wish they would have taken the bait on a trade of Jake Cave for Luis Gil.

[bird]

 

What are you talked about? Both Escobar and dozier trades we got fleeced. And Falvey and Levine are notorious at getting ripped off in trades just like a Rosario for gray trade would be.. A RIP OFF FOR US... I’m so angry at this front office right now all this money and we’re looking at trades??? Are we dumb?? We should be spending in free agency so we can compete with the white Sox.. our roster currently won’t be able to beat Chicago at all

 

 

It's November, not March, my friend, so let's give them some time here.

 

You're being a bit uncharitable. While most of us agree that the Pressly trade created a glaring hole and therefore was ill-advised, even THAT trade may eventually turn out okay for the Twins. Escobar may very well have been dismayed, like Dozier seemed to be, by what he perceived (rightly in HIS case) to be an unenthusiastic attempt to re-sign him. In Dozier's case, I'm sorry, but that was a fabulous decision to pass on him. We spent less to get MUCH more in the way of production AND we got Raley and Smeltzer, whose 0.7 WAR was the equal of what bench player Dozier generated for WSN. I personally LOVED the Dozier trade.

 

Many of us didn't really like the Escobar trade, although the final hour acquisition of Marwin softened the blow, and now Alcala and Celestino are at least valuable enough to warrant 40-man spots. The jury is still out, too early to call that one a fleecing.

 

The off-season isn't over, and I recall a few rants like yours a year ago too, before we had any inkling that they'd assemble a staff and a roster that would bring us 101 wins and a division title.

 

[old nurse]

A  few fun facts

Since trading them Kevin Slowey the Rockies have not made another deal with the Twins.

Same for Detroit and Delmon

If that made you laugh, here is the other way

No trades with the Mets since Johan

no trades with the Orioles since Hardy

 

[old nurse]

 

Ironically, I read recently that NYY signed Zack Granite to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training, and I thought to myself that I wish they would have taken the bait on a trade of Jake Cave for Luis Gil.

Ironically Cave was traded for shortly after the Twins had given up on Granite. On an age timeline, Granite is due to break out like another former Twin CF. Somebody named Hicks. I hear he is oft injured like a current Twins CF thus requiring a plan C and D lest the team has to go out and buy a LeMarre.. That is how you end up with Cave.

The really silly thing is in this thread there are people bashing the FO for trading for high risk, high reward prospects and also bashing them for trading them.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

Ironically Cave was traded for shortly after the Twins had given up on Granite. On an age timeline, Granite is due to break out like another former Twin CF. Somebody named Hicks. I hear he is oft injured like a current Twins CF thus requiring a plan C and D lest the team has to go out and buy a LeMarre.. That is how you end up with Cave.

The really silly thing is in this thread there are people bashing the FO for trading for high risk, high reward prospects and also bashing them for trading them.

My point is you don't do a drastic overpay like Arraez, Kiriloff and Graterol for Bryant. You might consider Duran, Cellestino and Alcala. Guys we got in those deals. We weren't contending when we made those trades. So I can understand trading them for future use, which is why I thought we acquired those prospects. Not to sit on them and have a pretty farm ranking.

 

As for Darvish, he has virtually no trade value right now. A Darvish for Blayne Enlow trade straight up would basically be an overpay on our part. If the Cubs were wanting to deal him they need to see if he can regain some value first if they were looking for any return back. The guy has done almost nothing since 2014 tbh.

[Danchat]

My point is you don't do a drastic overpay like Arraez, Kiriloff and Graterol for Bryant. You might consider Duran, Cellestino and Alcala. Guys we got in those deals. We weren't contending when we made those trades. So I can understand trading them for future use, which is why I thought we acquired those prospects. Not to sit on them and have a pretty farm ranking.

 

As for Darvish, he has virtually no trade value right now. A Darvish for Blayne Enlow trade straight up would basically be an overpay on our part. If the Cubs were wanting to deal him they need to see if he can regain some value first if they were looking for any return back. The guy has done almost nothing since 2014 tbh.

What?! Darvish had a good year last season, look at his WHIP and K numbers! He’s still overly expensive but definitely has trade value at this point.

[jmlease1]

 

What are you talked about? Both Escobar and dozier trades we got fleeced. And Falvey and Levine are notorious at getting ripped off in trades just like a Rosario for gray trade would be.. A RIP OFF FOR US... I’m so angry at this front office right now all this money and we’re looking at trades??? Are we dumb?? We should be spending in free agency so we can compete with the white Sox.. our roster currently won’t be able to beat Chicago at all

 

Wha-? How exactly did we lose on Dozier? Are you assuming that Dozier would have magically returned to 2017 form if only he played for the Twins? Or is this a claim that the Twins should have been able to get more for him, somehow, even though he hasn't been a quality starter in 2 years (and it sure seems that other teams looked at him and saw a player that was injured and likely to decline back then). 

 

And the idea that we can't compete with the White Sox roster just because they signed a good catcher is pretty silly, don't you think? We were 30 games better than they were. I'll take bets right now that the Twins will finish with a better record than the White Sox in 2020. Let's not pretend they have a great lineup or much of a rotation right now, ok? (Giolito was great last year, but also pitched so much better than he ever had before that it might be a fluke year)

 

 

[Battle ur tail off]

I can agree with some of what this article states. 

 

However, it's my opinion that all of these trades are "meh". There was little risk involved in any of them. Yes, they might have been good, they might have been bad. But there weren't really felt either way just because both the returns, and the people they gave up, weren't much to begin with. 

 

That list of prospects you name there for example. Yes, those guys look decent, but most likely they end up being fringy 25 man roster guys. None of those prospects rate out as being anything special. There is a reason they were traded to us in the first place. That said, most of them were had for rental players on our part, so it is not like we gave up a ton to get them. 

 

The real test for this FO to me anyway, is signing pitching or making trades for it this offseason. All of the moves they have done so far both in trades and FA signings are low risk moves. This year will not be that way, if in fact they do what they say they want to and that is to add impact pitching.