Front Page: Twins Game Recap (9/12): Twins Drop Series to Nationals, Cleveland 3.5 Back

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Too bad baseball doesn't allow you to trade someone needing a fresh start for a low draft pick.

Hey, if you play the guy who needs a fresh start, you may improve your draft position.

 

If another team wants him, you can trade him for international bonus pool money, or for a low minors lotto ticket. It's effectively the same thing. (I'm not sure I want to expand the trading of draft picks, even low ones.) Of course, it's also possible no team wants him that badly, and will simply wait to put in a claim when he is inevitably waived.

 

Actually, with the ban on trading 40-man roster guys in August/September, I wonder if this "we've-got-to-get-something-in-return-for-him" mentality could hurt a team. Maybe we really are ready to move on from Stewart, or even Diplan, and we might rather take a look at Alcala or Jax right now -- but the only way to clear Stewart or Diplan off the roster at the moment is to lose him on waivers or release them. So we feel stuck with them until after the season/postseason.

[Danchat]

They aren't up because this front office is risk adverse. Or maybe they plan to trade them, and they are more valuable this way. Either way, they are more worried about the future than the present. Floor over ceiling, just like always.

Or maybe it’s just too early for these guys - remember how we rushed Hicks and Buxton to the majors before they were ready? I would have called up Rooker, he should be healthy now.

[In My La Z boy]

 

Or maybe it’s just too early for these guys - remember how we rushed Hicks and Buxton to the majors before they were ready? I would have called up Rooker, he should be healthy now.

Will be interesting to see how this team handles Sept next year when we can only expand to 28 players. We'd be fresh out of team if this were the rule this year. I think the FO would have made different choices this year if that were the rule. Maybe it will be a positive. With very limited call ups you're more likely to see a Kiriloff or Rooker added I think.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

Tonight or Sunday are the only games in this series that the Twins have a chance at winning.

 

They face Clevinger on Saturday, who absolutely dominates the Twins. That will be an L.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

Oh, and Kohl Stewart has no place pitching in a MLB game that isn't an absolute blow out. Last night's game was not that, so why he was used is absolutely unacceptable by Baldelli and his staff.

 

The guy isn't a major league pitcher, and should be outrighted as soon as possible.

[Cap'n Piranha]

I have to quibble with the idea that there was anything redeeming about Gibson's start last night.  His WHIP was 2.57.  He gave up 73% hard contact.  Who cares if one of his pitches can't be hit if all the others are batting practice.

[rdehring]

 

Tonight or Sunday are the only games in this series that the Twins have a chance at winning.

 

They face Clevinger on Saturday, who absolutely dominates the Twins. That will be an L.

I agree, yet, whenever I think something like that the unexpected happens.  Doubt there is much of a chance but Thorpe or Schmeltzer could throw 5 shutout innings after Dobnak does the same in an inning as the opener.  Arraez should get a hit and score giving the Twins a 1-0 win.

[jkcarew]

Hard to come to the conclusion that in-game management is a strength of Rocco's...so far. Last night, was one of the more bizarre examples of that (although, I doubt it impacted the outcome).

Edited September 13, 2019 by jkcarew

[bighat]

 

Tonight or Sunday are the only games in this series that the Twins have a chance at winning.

 

They face Clevinger on Saturday, who absolutely dominates the Twins. That will be an L.

 

Shane Bieber is pitching Sunday, he's going to get Cy Young consideration and is arguably Cleveland's best pitcher.

[In My La Z boy]

 

Shane Bieber is pitching Sunday, he's going to get Cy Young consideration and is arguably Cleveland's best pitcher.

Yes he is. Tonight is huge.

[wabene]

I agree that Stewart should only be used in a blow out and should be moved off the forty one way or another after the season. If he makes it back to the organization again I would only let him back on the forty if he seriously earned it.

Overall this has been the most fun Twins season in a long time and the rest of this year is going to be a ride! Go Twins!

[h2oface]

 

Well, the 6th run was charged to Gibson and scored on a passed ball by Garver -- so maybe if the bullpen *and* catching holds, it would have been a 6-5 win. Otherwise, if just the bullpen, a 6-6 tie -- just like in Japan!

 

Call it my own advanced stat. Inherited runners scored I credit to the pitcher who came in to relieve and didn't. They were on the mound. It is an outdated custom to charge the pitcher that has left the game, in my opinion, especially with two outs. Plus, the target was low, and on the ground as he threw it, and Stashak completely blew the pitch, and missed the target by 4 feet. Sure, Garver should have still caught it, and it is an unearned run, but Stashak also loafed to the cover the plate, and if he was there, there could have been a play at the plate. But you are right, it was charged to Gibson, as if he made the play happen. 

 

Plus, there is no guarantee that the Nats would have used the same relievers that the Twins scored on. More for your refute. My point remains.... the relief choices were from Rochester, and a sad state of affairs, and another game seemingly given up on too soon, and now in a penant race that one cannot afford to give any game away for player development.

[h2oface]

 

....I will add one thing about Pineda - I do not want him back, talk about letting down your team.  Such terrible timing and devastating impact. 

 

Pineda, as a team player, could have informed the FO and Baldelli about what was going on. Maybe he did. But it seems as everyone found out except Pineda and his agent just before the suspension, and after his last start. As these things go, he probably knew this was the final outcome before the trade deadline, too. That makes his choices and behavior exhibit even more a lack of being a good teammate and ultimately more selfish. Informed, the FO maybe would have been encouraged to actually do something about our starting pitching depth, you know..... since they are so awesome and innovative.

Edited September 13, 2019 by h2oface

[yarnivek1972]

Call it my own advanced stat. Inherited runners scored I credit to the pitcher who came in to relieve and didn't. They were on the mound. It is an outdated custom to charge the pitcher that has left the game, in my opinion, especially with two outs. Plus, the target was low, and on the ground as he threw it, and Stashak completely blew the pitch, and missed the target by 4 feet. Sure, Garver should have still caught it, and it is an unearned run, but Stashak also loafed to the cover the plate, and if he was there, there could have been a play at the plate. But you are right, it was charged to Gibson, as if he made the play happen.

 

Plus, there is no guarantee that the Nats would have used the same relievers that the Twins scored on. More for your refute. My point remains.... the relief choices were from Rochester, and a sad state of affairs, and another game seemingly given up on too soon, and now in a penant race that one cannot afford to give any game away for player development.

I realize that you later emphasized “with two outs” but I certainly don’t think it is fair to “charge” them to the reliever. What about a guy who comes into bases loaded, no outs?Say he induces a first pitch run scoring double play and then gets a strike out. I think any team takes that outcome. Is it really fair to “charge” him with that run?

 

That’s what the IR/IS stats are for.

[Battle ur tail off]

I was at the game last night. Gibson was not sharp at all. He was hit hard, everything off the bat was a rocket. His pace in the game is also painfully slow and doesn't attack hitters. 

 

Flat out, we need some of our guys to get healthy. The lineup they had out there last night had 2-3 automatic outs in it and with our starting pitching being what it is, we can't have that. 

[Mike Sixel]

Or maybe it’s just too early for these guys - remember how we rushed Hicks and Buxton to the majors before they were ready? I would have called up Rooker, he should be healthy now.

We do know LaMarre isn't good, but he's here. We don't know with those two. That's the point, always choosing the least risk.

[h2oface]

 

I realize that you later emphasized “with two outs” but I certainly don’t think it is fair to “charge” them to the reliever. What about a guy who comes into bases loaded, no outs?Say he induces a first pitch run scoring double play and then gets a strike out. I think any team takes that outcome. Is it really fair to “charge” him with that run?

That’s what the IR/IS stats are for.

 

Yup. I would look at that different, and say no in my mind. 2 outs is the key. Not asking much, really, of the reliever. Just come in and relieve. Get a single out. Pitch a single clean at bat. Do your job. How about not throwing the ball 4 feet away from the target? I have a whole percentage applied idea that include situations with runners on which base and outs at time of entering game....to reflect on and improve ERA. Also the pitcher getting unearned runs when he let's his own runners in by throwing the ball away and makng his own throwing error on a pick off or just trying to throw out a runner. IR/IS is just a raw number, and it should be incorporated into ERA to better reflect what happened, I think. So many don't consider it, and don't include it, like this time, when they say the run was credited to...... of course it was as the system stands, but there was a huge contributing factor. Anyway..... for another thread. The main point was the choice of relief, mostly, and not trying to be that competitive too early in the game, and using the Rochester staff..... that Gibson did not let the run score, even though he allowed the runner on base was the aside that seems to be of more interest to argue about.

[Platoon]

Well, the 6th run was charged to Gibson and scored on a passed ball by Garver -- so maybe if the bullpen *and* catching holds, it would have been a 6-5 win. Otherwise, if just the bullpen, a 6-6 tie -- just like in Japan!

The amount of baseballs that make it to the backstop for this team is starting to get beyond acceptable. Whether passed, WP, or whoever the catcher is.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The amount of baseballs that make it to the backstop for this team is starting to get beyond acceptable. Whether passed, WP, or whoever the catcher is.

[ashbury]

download (2).jpeg

 

"Acceptable" being also a charitable description of my imaging skilz.