So it's now September 15th and the Twins are well established in first place.

 

When do Minnesota fans actually acknowledge that this is a *very* good team?

 

How's 2032 work for ya? I may be feeling nostalgic then...

Edited September 15, 20197 yr by 70charger

 

So it's now September 15th and the Twins are well established in first place.

 

When do Minnesota fans actually acknowledge that this is a *very* good team?

If they would not acknowledge it before yesterday, why would they change now? There will be some qualifier

OK I take it all back.

So it's now September 15th and the Twins are well established in first place.

 

When do Minnesota fans actually acknowledge that this is a *very* good team?

 

When they can consistently win against teams with a winning record.

Full disclosure: I also previously posted about the Twins' poor record vs. teams above .500, just before the Boston series, but in reality, it's not so bad in the AL at least: 

Houston 4-3

Tampa Bay 5-2

Cleveland 9-9 as we all know chance to take the series today (interesting 4-6 at home, 5-3 away)

Boston 3-3

Oakland 3-4

NYY 2-4

If you want to throw in Texas, at just 2 under .500 - 6-1

 

NL - Bombed. Lost all 4 series 1-2 against NL East teams above .500 (says something about the strength of that division), split with Milwaukee.

 

32-35 overall (throwing out Texas)

 

Sure AL Central is weak, but also note the Twins are 20-12 against the East and 23-10 against the West.  I recall that some of their past playoff teams struggled to hit .500 against those divisions. They won every series against teams under .500 this year, so they are consistent. The Twins deserve to be where they are, hopefully win today although now they should still be able to comfortably take the division anyway, and finish strong. I've seen many Twins playoff teams (and other Minnesota teams for that matter) limp into the postseason losing their last games to poor competition, even when the games still had some meaning. Even resting some, I feel they should still beat up the remaining competition. Finish strong, guys!

So it's now September 15th and the Twins are well established in first place.

 

When do Minnesota fans actually acknowledge that this is a *very* good team?

When the Vikings season ends?

 

Seriously, though, this is an odd place to post this, Brock. The OP of this thread certainly wasn't saying the Twins were not a very good team, just that they were very banged up at the moment and still had some work to do to win the division. Both of those things were undoubtedly true a few days ago (much less so now, thankfully).

 

Beyond that, this language is subjective -- I suspect some fans might reserve the "very" good qualifier for success beyond the regular season, especially after the TR years, which isn't unreasonable and has yet to be tested this year.

 

This just seems like an invitation to sniping about other posters...

 

When the Vikings season ends?

Seriously, though, this is an odd place to post this, Brock. The OP of this thread certainly wasn't saying the Twins were not a very good team, just that they were very banged up at the moment and still had some work to do to win the division. Both of those things were undoubtedly true a few days ago (much less so now, thankfully).

Beyond that, this language is subjective -- I suspect some fans might reserve the "very" good qualifier for success beyond the regular season, especially after the TR years, which isn't unreasonable and has yet to be tested this year.

This just seems like an invitation to sniping about other posters...

Oh, it wasn't meant as a snipe at all. We all had reservations about the team after all the recent injuries and they basically wrapped up the division by dominating the second-place team in a doubleheader.

 

The team has a good shot at 100 wins for the season, something most of us have never seen.

 

The Twins are a very good team.

The odds of winning the division thing makes me laugh once again. Maybe they haven't updated it since the Twins swept today, although their record has been updated, but last I checked (granted, a few days ago) they had ~ 95% chance of winning the division. Now it's at 77%. And predicted number of wins would have the Twins going 8-6 against Cleveland (1 game) and the rest of the Central. While they have the Indians going 9-4 against the Twins, Philly, Washington, and other division foes. WTF?

Where are you getting your odds? I recommend Fangraphs, and they update every morning:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

 

And the cool thing is, you can adjust the date on that page and look back at their previous published odds too. The Twins division odds went from 94.1% to 99.4% with the doubleheader sweep yesterday!

Oh, it wasn't meant as a snipe at all. We all had reservations about the team after all the recent injuries and they basically wrapped up the division by dominating the second-place team in a doubleheader.

 

The team has a good shot at 100 wins for the season, something most of us have never seen.

 

The Twins are a very good team.

That's fair. And I didn't think you were sniping, just that others might see it as a prompt to do their own sniping.

 

That said, 100 wins is also context dependent achievement. The 2006 Twins won 96 games, when the best team in MLB only had 97. The 2010 team had 94 wins vs. the MLB best of 97 too (and that was with a 2-8 finish after we clinched).

 

Fangraphs projects our 2019 squad to 99 wins, but with 4 teams ahead of us, the best teams at 105, and even the two AL wild cards just 3 games behind us at 96.

 

There is no doubt that this is the best Twins team since at least 2010. But I could see why some might wait until the postseason to declare them better than 2010 or the 2006 team. (Even the Morneau/Liriano absences have at least been partially offset by the recent Buxton/Pineda news.)

That's fair. And I didn't think you were sniping, just that others might see it as a prompt to do their own sniping.

 

That said, 100 wins is also context dependent achievement. The 2006 Twins won 96 games, when the best team in MLB only had 97. The 2010 team had 94 wins vs. the MLB best of 97 too (and that was with a 2-8 finish after we clinched).

 

Fangraphs projects our 2019 squad to 99 wins, but with 4 teams ahead of us, the best teams at 105, and even the two AL wild cards just 3 games behind us at 96.

 

There is no doubt that this is the best Twins team since at least 2010. But I could see why some might wait until the postseason to declare them better than 2010 or the 2006 team. (Even the Morneau/Liriano absences have at least been partially offset by the recent Buxton/Pineda news.)

The sad thing is that they can prove they are the best team since 2002 by winning one postseason game.

 

Sigh. The 2000s were so painful.

Looks like Rocco is positioning the rotation for the playoffs, pushing back Berrios for one game, which means the Twins really only need one more bullpen game between now and the end of the season (not counting this last game against the Indians).

 

The magic number is nine. The Twins have to win five. If the Indians lose five, the Twins are set. It still isn't over, but would be ncie to win the division during the home series!

I laughed when someone said this thread was "relatively balanced"

 

I'm still laughing

The sad thing is that they can prove they are the best team since 2002 by winning one postseason game.

 

Sigh. The 2000s were so painful.

"'Tis better to have playoffed and lost, than never to have playoffed at all." -- Rick, Lord Anderson

The greatest single difference between a winner and a loser is a positive mental attitude. The Twins have that. 

The greatest single difference between a winner and a loser is a positive mental attitude. The Twins have that.

In sports? I'd say talent and skill. But a good attitude helps.

"'Tis better to have playoffed and lost, than never to have playoffed at all." -- Rick, Lord Anderson

I’ve also seen that quote attributed Paul Allen, Vikings announcer.

 

People should be concerned. Big 3 game stretch and we have injuries all over the place. Getting swept in my opinion will be pretty close to season over. I don't see us coming back from that. We need to take a minimum of two. Flip side, we have two today. Take them both and I'll be sleeping a lot easier. Lose them both and it's Vikings season.

 

definitely sleeping easier today... Hope we put a dagger in Cleveland this afternoon to compliment a nice Vikings win. 

 

So it's now September 15th and the Twins are well established in first place.

 

When do Minnesota fans actually acknowledge that this is a *very* good team?

Only after hoisting a trophy

Only after hoisting a trophy

I'm pretty sure that the 2017 Twins won MLB's "Most Improved Odor" trophy.

 

I think we are not exploring this subject fully...

 

 

To paraphrase the narator, is the new team is built with... a stiffening truss* and now completely stable?

 

(note to self... no WTC, nor i35. What else might be in poor taste?)

 

 

*nominations for what embodies this metaphor for the Twins will be accepted up to the end of the season.

 

definitely sleeping easier today... Hope we put a dagger in Cleveland this afternoon to compliment a nice Vikings win. 

IALTO.

Twins will win the division

 

The magic number is nine. The Twins have to win five. If the Indians lose five, the Twins are set. 

 

I don't understand the math. In my mind, the Twins have to win 7 (their magic number going into today), or at least I absolutely don't count on Cleveland losing 5. I look at it from the lens of them winning out, and they may, although I expect them to lose a couple, with Philly and Washington on their schedule. If the Twins win only 5 (and they have already won 2 since the above post), I think they not only lose the division, but miss the postseason entirely. There is still work to do, guys. Finish strong!

I think the Twins should operate under the assumption that Cleveland will not lose again this year.

 

I think the Twins should operate under the assumption that Cleveland will not lose again this year.

I agree. They are playing very well, as is Oakland and Tampa Bay, although the Rays have a tough schedule the next several games. If Cleveland catches the Twins, we'll have seen an incredibly fun season end with the Twins not even getting 1 playoff game.

 

I agree. They are playing very well, as is Oakland and Tampa Bay, although the Rays have a tough schedule the next several games. If Cleveland catches the Twins, we'll have seen an incredibly fun season end with the Twins not even getting 1 playoff game.

If Cleveland catches the Twins, that means the Twins play a Wild Card game.

 

Unless you expect Tampa to basically win out.

 

The greatest single difference between a winner and a loser is a positive mental attitude. The Twins have that. 

Yesterday I handed a few dollars to homeless guy with a wonderful positive attitude.  I guess what was missing with his was a good work ethic or having some sort of marketable skill.  That stuff kind of matter

I agree. They are playing very well, as is Oakland and Tampa Bay, although the Rays have a tough schedule the next several games. If Cleveland catches the Twins, we'll have seen an incredibly fun season end with the Twins not even getting 1 playoff game.

While not mathematically eliminated from the division, I think Cleveland has been thinking Wild Card since the Twins-Cleveland doubleheader.

If Cleveland catches the Twins, that means the Twins play a Wild Card game.

 

Unless you expect Tampa to basically win out.

Not sure I buy the logic. Each division has two 90+ win teams. Of these, Cleveland has the weakest record. If they overtake the Twins, it will have to involve a lot of Twins losses, and the Twins might easily have a worse record than TB and Oak. Oakland might be about to overtake the Twins in number of wins. Said another way, the Twins' magic number relative to either of them is currently higher than for Cleveland.

 

Not sure I buy the logic. Each division has two 90+ win teams. Of these, Cleveland has the weakest record. If they overtake the Twins, it will have to involve a lot of Twins losses, and the Twins might easily have a worse record than TB and Oak. Oakland might be about to overtake the Twins in number of wins. Said another way, the Twins' magic number relative to either of them is currently higher than for Cleveland.

Huh? Cleveland and Tampa Bay have identical records, so if the season ended today, they would have a one-game play-in game to play Oakland. The Twins magic number to clinch a wild card is identical to their magic number to clinch the division--3.