Huh? Cleveland's bullpen has the best ERA in MLB.
The gap between them and 2nd place, is wider than the gap between 2nd and 9th place.

It seems to be done with smoke and mirrors, we shall see when they face better hitting clubs.  Hand is looking like he needs an IL breather, so we shall see how Cleveland's bullpen holds up against well above average major league lineups.

 

The vaunted farm system has given almost no help. Unlike the Yankees.

This team aimed low in pitching. Perez, Odorrizi, and Pineda are all bad, or just ok. They don't draft pitchers early, then refuse to trade top prospects to get it.

I'm still waiting for this great system to do something to help this roster. And, yes, guys drafted and traded for in the last three years are helping playoff teams....

Disagree, Pineda and Odorizzi have been ok and Pineda is getting better as the season goes on. Perez and Gibson are the issue and both should be gone after this season.  Would QA one of both of Odorizzi and Pineda and hope to sign Pineda. 

Twins will never win until management either finds a way to develop pitching or spends like $80 million per year more on pitching in the FA market, starting with the Houston FA on the way out.

It seems to be done with smoke and mirrors, we shall see when they face better hitting clubs. Hand is looking like he needs an IL breather, so we shall see how Cleveland's bullpen holds up against well above average major league lineups.

Smoke and mirrors in what way?

Which metrics are you using to downgrade them from first in MLB, by a huge margin, to awful?

 

And these are full season stats, so the level of competition is balanced, just like every other team they are ranked against.

 

Disagree, Pineda and Odorizzi have been ok and Pineda is getting better as the season goes on. Perez and Gibson are the issue and both should be gone after this season.  Would QA one of both of Odorizzi and Pineda and hope to sign Pineda. 

Twins will never win until management either finds a way to develop pitching or spends like $80 million per year more on pitching in the FA market, starting with the Houston FA on the way out.

What will a QA be for a pitcher, 18ish?  

I would say the young core of the team who are all 26 years old or younger all came from the vaunted farm system. Sano, Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, Berrios and Arraez are fit into that mold.

 

Before the season the majority of the high pieces on the farm were AA or lower including the entire Top 10 not named Rooker, who is injured.

 

The Yankees are a weird comparison because the only guys that are 26 or under and really helping the club are Torres, Sanchez and German. So where's all this vaunted Yankee farm club helping out at?

It's pretty obvious I'm talking about this year, isn't it? The Yankees have plugged numerous holes from within, and have the best record. Who has come up from the minors this year for the Twins and been a positive difference maker? When does this system start producing again?

Edited August 13, 20197 yr by Mike Sixel

Disagree, Pineda and Odorizzi have been ok and Pineda is getting better as the season goes on. Perez and Gibson are the issue and both should be gone after this season. Would QA one of both of Odorizzi and Pineda and hope to sign Pineda.

Twins will never win until management either finds a way to develop pitching or spends like $80 million per year more on pitching in the FA market, starting with the Houston FA on the way out.

You'd pay Odorrizi fifteen to eighteen million per year? Because he's not turning that down. And, neither of those is signed for next year, which is kind of the actual point.... Pineda looks good, when he's actually healthy. He hasn't pitched a full year in three or four years....

Edited August 13, 20197 yr by Mike Sixel

 

It's pretty obvious I'm talking about this year, isn't it? The Yankees have plugged numerous holes from within, and have the best record. Who has come up from the minors this year for the Twins and been a positive difference maker? When does this system start producing again?

Well, Arraez for one. Probably got to give credit to Smeltzer for a couple good starts.

 

But your point stands, IMO.

 

I would say the young core of the team who are all 26 years old or younger all came from the vaunted farm system.  Sano, Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, Berrios and Arraez are fit into that mold.  

 

 

Give credit to Billy Smith then, because he was the guy that brought in most of those guys. Has zero to do with the wunderkids.

Well, Arraez for one. Probably got to give credit to Smeltzer for a couple good starts.

 

But your point stands, IMO.

I was coming back to compliment Arraez! For sure.

 

What will a QA be for a pitcher, 18ish?  

A little over, but that is the price of decent pitching until you can develop some.  

 

You'd pay Odorrizi fifteen to eighteen million per year? Because he's not turning that down. And, neither of those is signed for next year, which is kind of the actual point.... Pineda looks good, when he's actually healthy. He hasn't pitched a full year in three or four years....

 

What are your other options, hoping 3 - 4 rookies can cut it in one year.  Scraping the bottom of the barrel and hoping one out of 3 - 4 work out.  I have hopes some of the Twins Rookies will make decent bullpen pieces next year, not sure about the starters.

 

What are your other options, hoping 3 - 4 rookies can cut it in one year.  Scraping the bottom of the barrel and hoping one out of 3 - 4 work out.  I have hopes some of the Twins Rookies will make decent bullpen pieces next year, not sure about the starters.

 

I don't know what they are going to do. They didn't acquire any FAs or make any trades for guys with multiple years of control, other than Perez who is not good, so they'll have to figure this out. I'm not confident they can find 2, let alone 3 or 4, good starters.

Edited August 13, 20197 yr by Mike Sixel

Give credit to Billy Smith then, because he was the guy that brought in most of those guys. Has zero to do with the wunderkids.

Isn't development part of the process as well?

I don't buy that they have zero to do with the improvements from Kepler,Polanco, Buxton, Sano and Arraez.

You'd pay Odorrizi fifteen to eighteen million per year? Because he's not turning that down. And, neither of those is signed for next year, which is kind of the actual point.... Pineda looks good, when he's actually healthy. He hasn't pitched a full year in three or four years....

Odorizzi is on pace for a 3.6 bWAR and fWAR season.

Why wouldn't you pay him $18 million for a 1 year commitment?

 

Odorizzi is on pace for a 3.6 bWAR and fWAR season.
Why wouldn't you pay him $18 million for a 1 year commitment?

 

Because he's getting worse as the year goes on, and he's never been this good before? Because they wouldn't offer anyone that much money before, so would I expect them to for him? I'm not sure.

 

Actually, I'm more likely to offer him than Pineda, because Big Mike hasn't been healthy in forever. So, sure, I'd probably offer Odo, but I would not expect this good a year again. 

Because he's getting worse as the year goes on, and he's never been this good before? Because they wouldn't offer anyone that much money before, so would I expect them to for him? I'm not sure.

 

Actually, I'm more likely to offer him than Pineda, because Big Mike hasn't been healthy in forever. So, sure, I'd probably offer Odo, but I would not expect this good a year again.

It's a long season. All the games count. Whatever he ends the season with will be what his performance was, regardless of when on the calendar they took place.

 

As far as him never being this good before, sure, that's why a QO is a much better deal for the Twins than a multi year deal.

The budget shouldn't start to get really tight until 2021, so see if he can prove this is the new norm next year.

Plenty of pitchers that you've advocated for the Twins to pursue have been guys that figured it out along the way.