Article: Trade Deadline Thread: Who Are Your Favorite Bullpen Targets?

[Cooper Carlson]

It is July 25 and we are now just six days from the trade deadline. There has still been no real impact moves lately so those could be coming any day now, but it is likely to all happen within the final 48 hours. Today I’ll be discussing a package deal from the Royals I would like, as well as giving some links to recent rumors. Head down to the comments and discuss.During the Twins game last night, multiple reporters had an interesting quote from Derek Falvey about the state of salary/payroll during this deadline.

 

So the Twins would be willing to take on some money, you say? Well there is one particular reliever who came to mind for a lot of Twins fans including myself, and that is the Kansas City Royals reliever Ian Kennedy. The 34-year-old right-hander is under team control next season but he is owed roughly $16.5 million for that year. The Royals might still maintain some of the salary but the Twins would still be paying quite a bit. That shouldn’t be too big of a problem though, because Kennedy is actually a really good pitcher.

 

He is in his first season as a relief pitcher after twelve up and down seasons as a starter. In 41 appearances this year, Kennedy owns a 3.48 ERA, 2.23 FIP(!), 10.89 K/9, and 2.18 BB/9. He is a solid right hander who will be able to share high leverage innings with Taylor Rogers and as a righty to pair with Rogers, the Twins could utilize their matchup approach to the bullpen even more.

 

Of course if I’m calling, texting, facetiming or writing letters to Kansas City I am looking for a second player to pair with Kennedy, and that would be Lucas Duda. That is a joke, the real second piece the Twins should target is left handed reliever Jake Diekman.

 

A lot of you will be turned off of him after I say this, but I would call him a left handed Trevor May. Diekman has a very good fastball reaching 96 mph that hitters are hitting just .185 against to go with an outstanding 13.28 K/9, but his BB/9 is a frustrating 5.09 so he will either strike you out or walk you. He is just a good pitcher you can put in for the sixth or seventh inning to safely get you to the big guns to finish the game.

So what do you think? Would this package from the Royals be good enough to fix the Twins bullpen? Who are your favorite bullpen pieces expected to be available?

 

Discuss that with me in the comments along with some of these other rumors in the deadline discussion.

 

Deadline Discussion

• Fangraphs put out an article predicting what each team does at the deadline. They have Twins going to the Giants to acquire Madison Bumgarner and
  for the costly price of Brusdar Graterol and Trevor Larnach, the Twins #3 and #4 prospects respectively. While both are good pitchers, I don’t see the Twins dealing two of their best prospects for a rental starter and a reliever. What do you think?

• CBS Sports ranked the 50 best trade candidates for this upcoming deadline. The Twins are listed as fits for Austin Brice (#28), Tony Watson (#23), Sam Dyson (#22), Alex Colome (#21), Chris Martin (#20), Shawn Kelley (#19), Ken Giles (#15), Kirby Yates (#13), Trevor Bauer (#6), Mike Minor (#5) and Madison Bumgarner (#4). Who would you like to see from this list?

• Here at Twins Daily, Seth posted the first Trade Deadline Thread with some other interesting links from Ken Rosenthal among other posts. Also at Twins Daily, Matt and I gave our perfect trade deadline scenarios on our Leading Off Podcast, so just skip to the 46 minute mark for that.

I guarantee there is no better place to find everything you need for the Twins and their upcoming trade deadline than right here at Twins Daily. Now come join me in the comments and let’s discuss the Royals package deal, the Mad Bum/Sam Dyson idea and the many other players linked to the Twins!

 

Click here to view the article

[TheMatt]

Honestly, what was he supposed to say about Pohlad adding salary to ease the prospect burden? "Na, you guys are right. He is cheap"

[Cooper Carlson]

 

Honestly, what was he supposed to say about Pohlad adding salary to ease the prospect burden? "Na, you guys are right. He is cheap"

 

 

Honestly, what was he supposed to say about Pohlad adding salary to ease the prospect burden? "Na, you guys are right. He is cheap"

 

It is also a possibility that Pohlad wants to win and is actually willing to add salary

[TheMatt]

Ya, I hope so. As far as the trade, Kennedy for a lower prospect (or two) who needs to be added to the 40 man this fall would be nice. Take on all the money. I would like them to aim a little higher than Diekman, but if they feel they *need a lefty they could do worse.

[jud6312]

Obviously, they can't get them all, but if 2-3 of these names were in play I'd be happy (Yates, Giles, and Vazquez removed due to assumed prospect cost):

 

• Ian Kennedy
• Seth Lugo
• Will Smith
• Jose Leclerc
• Chris Martin
• Austin Brice
• Dylan Bundy (buy-low, bullpen flyer)

[Tom Froemming]

I've seen all sorts of the SP/RP trade ideas -- mainly MadBum+Smith/Stroman+Giles -- but I hadn't given much thought into reliever double dip move. That intrigues me.

 

This Kennedy+Diekman idea you have would go a long way toward fixing the pen. And I don't think the cost would be so prohibitive that it would prevent the Twins from staying in on other bigger bullpen targets as well.

 

I'm going to sound extremely Terry Ryan right now, but if I'm in this front office I'm getting at least one reliever in hand Monday at the latest. You can't go into the final 48 hours of the deadline with nothing at all when you really need multiple upgrades. Can you imagine if everything fell through? Oof.

 

Anyway, Sam Dyson had been the guy I really liked a lot, but now that San Francisco is over .500 and just three back in the wild card, I'm not sure he'll be available. Mychal Givens from Baltimore is now my go-to guy in that second tier of relievers who should be available. Kirby Yates from San Diego or Felipe Vazquez of Pittsburgh would be great, but I don't think either of those guys gets moved until we're within 24 hours of the deadline (but what do I know?).

 

One last really under the radar guy I'll throw out is Scott Oberg from the Rockies. He's been a very solid pitcher for them the past two seasons, has multiple more years of team control and that team is in a tailspin right now. I'm not sure they'll necessarily be shopping him, but I think that was also the case with the Twins and Ryan Pressly last year. 

[Cooper Carlson]

 

 

Obviously, they can't get them all, but if 2-3 of these names were in play I'd be happy (Yates, Giles, and Vazquez removed due to assumed prospect cost):

 

• Ian Kennedy
• Seth Lugo
• Will Smith
• Jose Leclerc
• Chris Martin
• Austin Brice
• Dylan Bundy (buy-low, bullpen flyer)

 

In my opinion, the Twins have to add two relievers at the minimum. It will cost a lot, but Vasquez, Giles or Yates may be a key piece the Twins could add. 

[MMMordabito]

I would love for the Twins to get Kennedy.  Since it isn't my money, I would trade a package of lower end guys that have to hit the 40 and a GCL flyer to the Royals and take on all the salary.   I doubt the Twins would do that though.

 

Jaylin Davis, Jovani Moran and Donny Breek for Ian Kennedy and his full salary.

 

I'm not as high on Diekman at this point.  He walks way too many guys and that's been killing the Twins.  I'd rather just go rent a LOOGY like Avilan from the Mets.  Avilan doesn't have any control, but he won't make sense in 2020 anyway with the new 3 batter rule.  The Mets are not deploying him properly.

[jud6312]

 

In my opinion, the Twins have to add two relievers at the minimum. It will cost a lot, but Vasquez, Giles or Yates may be a key piece the Twins could add. 

 

2 for sure, 3 would be preferable.

 

I would definitely love to have any of the three big guys, but I really made my list based on my realistic expectations of what I think the FO would be willing to part with to acquire help.

 

I'm not confident they'll cough up the pieces to get those guys though.

[Cooper Carlson]

 

I've seen all sorts of the SP/RP trade ideas -- mainly MadBum+Smith/Stroman+Giles -- but I hadn't given much thought into reliever double dip move. That intrigues me.

 

This Kennedy+Diekman idea you have would go a long way toward fixing the pen. And I don't think the cost would be so prohibitive that it would prevent the Twins from staying in on other bigger bullpen targets as well.

 

I'm going to sound extremely Terry Ryan right now, but if I'm in this front office I'm getting at least one reliever in hand Monday at the latest. You can't go into the final 48 hours of the deadline with nothing at all when you really need multiple upgrades. Can you imagine if everything fell through? Oof.

 

Anyway, Sam Dyson had been the guy I really liked a lot, but now that San Francisco is over .500 and just three back in the wild card, I'm not sure he'll be available. Mychal Givens from Baltimore is now my go-to guy in that second tier of relievers who should be available. Kirby Yates from San Diego or Felipe Vazquez of Pittsburgh would be great, but I don't think either of those guys gets moved until we're within 24 hours of the deadline (but what do I know?).

 

One last really under the radar guy I'll throw out is Scott Oberg from the Rockies. He's been a very solid pitcher for them the past two seasons, has multiple more years of team control and that team is in a tailspin right now. I'm not sure they'll necessarily be shopping him, but I think that was also the case with the Twins and Ryan Pressly last year. 

I have been high on Givens all season so he is also my number one guy in that second tier. Past success, high upside and years of control are definitely a few keys you look for in that second tier. Plus, his slider is awesome. By the way Tom, click on Sam Dyson's name in this post for a surprise.

[Tom Froemming]

 

I have been high on Givens all season so he is also my number one guy in that second tier. Past success, high upside and years of control are definitely a few keys you look for in that second tier. Plus, his slider is awesome. By the way Tom, click on Sam Dyson's name in this post for a surprise.

Yeah, I'm sad that Dyson move didn't happen at that time when it appeared the Giants had every reason to sell. Well, from the outside looking in at least.

 

Jon Morosi of MLB Network reported today that the Twins "are interested in" Daniel Hudson. Now, as evidence by my love of Oberg, I can get behind under the radar types. Hudson? No thanks. Batters are hitting the crap outta the ball against him. His exit velo and hard hit % are terrible.

[railmarshalljon]

Felipe Vázquez is my answer because he's really good at baseball (this is the big one) and on a great contract. You've gotta deal some prospect capital at some point. Maybe not go full blown Dombrowski, but this club is gonna need a little more life in the bullpen if they hope to get by the Yankees and Astros in the playoffs. 

[nicksaviking]

I've been waiting to play this game! I don't think SF or AZ will sell and I haven't heard anything about Cincinnati selling, but they'd be dumb not to move at least one or two of their interesting bullpen arms:

 

Felipe Vazquez

Kirby Yates

Ken Giles

Seth Lugo

Raisel Iglesias 

Amir Garrett

Ian Kennedy

Shane Greene

Roenis Elias

Buck Farmer

Michael Lorenzen

Scott Oberg

Jose Leclerc

Mychal Givens

Robert Stephenson

Daniel Hudson

[Cooper Carlson]

 

Felipe Vázquez is my answer because he's really good at baseball (this is the big one) and on a great contract. You've gotta deal some prospect capital at some point. Maybe not go full blown Dombrowski, but this club is gonna need a little more life in the bullpen if they hope to get by the Yankees and Astros in the playoffs. 

Sure, but the asking price right now anyway was like a top two prospect and unless that is lowered the Twins will not do it in a million years.

[VATwinsFan]

Giles and Kennedy--can't help but be an upgrade and shouldn't cost that much. Keep Smelzer to be the long guy or starter.

[nokomismod]

I would rather see them add a starter, move Perez to pen, and keep working with the young three that have shown promise (Stashak, Thorpe, and Smeltzer). I hate the idea of trade away young talent for BP arms.

[Dantes929]

I already think Schmeltzer is better than Parker and optimistic that Thorpe and Stashak can be better than Magill and Morin.   I would be thrilled to get Kennedy and any other upgrade that does not cost us a top 3.   Along those lines, is there any reason at all to think Graterol can get back on the mound in the next couple weeks?   or several weeks?  I have said before I don't want to trade him for an answer.   I want him to be the answer.   I am coming around on the idea of him and Gordon for Stroman cuz the rotation is still a good way to alleviate the stress on the pen.    My confidence in Perez and Odorizzi has waned.

[Tom Froemming]

 

I would rather see them add a starter, move Perez to pen, and keep working with the young three that have shown promise (Stashak, Thorpe, and Smeltzer). I hate the idea of trade away young talent for BP arms.

The plan is for the main topic of conversation for tomorrow's thread to be on starting pitcher, so make sure to check back in.

[mudcat14]

I don't think we can solve our mound issues with one deal.   I think we need to make a rental deal for Bumgarner/Smith.   Maybe Gordon, Duran & a couple lesser's get that done.   We also need two RH guys for the pen.   Giles for Larnach/Rooker & Balazovic.   Then finish with Kennedy for Jaylin Davis, if the Royals eat some salary.

 

None of those deals are worth including Royce Lewis unless we can get a piece to flip into one of the other deals.

[2wins87]

 

Felipe Vázquez is my answer because he's really good at baseball (this is the big one) and on a great contract. You've gotta deal some prospect capital at some point. Maybe not go full blown Dombrowski, but this club is gonna need a little more life in the bullpen if they hope to get by the Yankees and Astros in the playoffs. 

 

Sure, but the asking price right now anyway was like a top two prospect and unless that is lowered the Twins will not do it in a million years.

 

The Pirates GM has also explicitly stated multiple times that Vazquez won't be traded.  As always, it could be posturing, but Vazquez isn't on my list for that reason.

[pierre75275]

I would love to see the twins add Giles then a second tier reliever maybe a rental in the good not great range and then get somebody like Robbie Ray from the Dbacks and bounce either Pineda or Perez to the pen

[2wins87]

I'm excluding Vazquez since the GM has been pretty explicit about him not being available.  I'll include the Giants' guys because who knows if they'll be traded.

 

1) Ken Giles - Definitely moving, definitely good

2) Kirby Yates - I think the Padres hold on to him if they don't get a ridiculously good offer

3) Will Smith - Will he be available?

4) Sam Dyson - Ditto

5) Scott Oberg - Haven't seen him talked about, but the Rockies should definitely be selling now and he's cheap and controllable

6) Raisel Iglesias - Not sure if he's moving, but the Reds ought to be shopping him, also hasn't pitched to expectations so far

7) Shane Greene - If home runs continue to be an issue the ERA won't continue to be so low

8) Alex Colome - Has been lucky like Greene, but still a decent option

9) Ian Kennedy - His home run rate is way down to the point where there's probably a lot of luck involved, he's also old and expensive next year

10) Cam Bedrosian - Angels are almost back into a race, but they still ought to sell

11) Tony Watson - Could be a LOOGY pickup, but again, will the Giants sell?

12) Seth Lugo - With 3 more arbitration years left, I think the Mets ask for a lot in return.

[mudcat14]

 

I love your ideas, but I think the proposed price for Bumgarner/Smith is waaaaay too low for SF to consider. Add in the Giants' moves up in the standings and I think we're looking at Gordon, Duran and a lesser or two just for Smith and that might not be enough. I don't think Gordon has much value at this point. 

 

Frankly, at this point I think Bumgarner is effectively off the table and the cost for Smith will be such (one of our top 5 prospects plus more at least) that he's effectively off the table well. SF will keep their pieces for a run at the Wild Card in Bochy's last year and they think they can re-sign guys for next year plus. Maybe a lower level SF bullpen piece might be in play, like Meloncon or possibly Dyson but probably not a good trading partner for us.    

The Giants only shot is a 1-game Wild Card play-off, and their farm is weak.  They've been auditioning OF's all season and Crawford & Panik ain't getting any younger (or better.)  Add Badoo/Celestino or Maciel to that package and I think it's a better offer than you're giving credit for.  We've already seen that the QO compensation isn't a guarantee for the Giants, with the way Keuchel and Kimbrell played out this year.  I think the Giants would give it strong consideration.

[Tom Froemming]

 

The Giants only shot is a 1-game Wild Card play-off, and their farm is weak.  They've been auditioning OF's all season and Crawford & Panik ain't getting any younger (or better.)  Add Badoo/Celestino or Maciel to that package and I think it's a better offer than you're giving credit for.  We've already seen that the QO compensation isn't a guarantee for the Giants, with the way Keuchel and Kimbrell played out this year.  I think the Giants would give it strong consideration.

Maybe for one of MadBum or Smith, but not the pair. It's less about the offer in a vacuum than it is about what I'd expect other teams would offer. Someone else would beat that package.

[jay]

No way the Twins are taking on all that salary AND giving up a 40-man worthy prospect.

 

https://www.royalsreview.com/2019/7/17/20696903/ian-kennedys-trade-value-contract

[Alex Schieferdecker]

After the Blake Parker experiment, I don't think I could stand another reliever who walks so many hitters. Even the guys from AAA like Thorpe and Stashak are upgrades because at least they throw strikes.

[Cooper Carlson]

 

After the Blake Parker experiment, I don't think I could stand another reliever who walks so many hitters. Even the guys from AAA like Thorpe and Stashak are upgrades because at least they throw strikes.

True, that makes sense but Parker didn't strike people out to counter the walks and Diekman is one of the better strikeout relievers. He is 11th in K/9 in all of baseball.

[MMMordabito]

 

No way the Twins are taking on all that salary AND giving up a 40-man worthy prospect.

https://www.royalsreview.com/2019/7/17/20696903/ian-kennedys-trade-value-contract

 

After reading that, I must be way overpaying.   I would like to think a 40-man worthy to the Twins is more than a 40-man worthy to KC.   Is giving them Davis basically like just saying, "Here, now you don't have to use one of your Rule 5 picks. You just have to use a 40-man spot."

[jud6312]

 

Perfect. I posted an almost identical list in another thread except that you added Brice and I had Roenis Elias. I say let's get 2 off the list adding Elias to your top 6 guys. Smith is the big target but I just wonder if SF will really make a fair deal given their position in the standings. 

 

I'm less thrilled about Dylan Bundy although I can see the potential upside, even as a starter next year. Does he have any options left?

 

Perfect. I posted an almost identical list in another thread except that you added Brice and I had Roenis Elias. I say let's get 2 off the list adding Elias to your top 6 guys. Smith is the big target but I just wonder if SF will really make a fair deal given their position in the standings. 

 

I'm less thrilled about Dylan Bundy although I can see the potential upside, even as a starter next year. Does he have any options left?

 

I believe he's out of options, but still has 2 years of control left. 

 

Misses a fair amount of bats, walks are consistently around 3 per 9, and he was pretty decent in the pen when they had him out there in '16. I'd assume his stuff would play up a bit if he took to the pen.

 

It could just as easily be a crazy idea, just a guy that's always intrigued me.

[ChrisKnutson]

In no particular order, I really hope the FO is bold enough to make a deal for at least two of the arms on this list.

 

Kirby Yates

Felipe Vazquez

Raisel Iglesias

Carlos Martinez

Jose Leclerc

Mychal Givens

Ian Kennedy

Tony Watson

Sam Dyson

 

For those wondering why some names are missing it’s because I don’t trust Greene or Giles, and I think Smith is an overpriced rental.