Article: CLE 5, MIN 2: Twins Can’t Figure Out Bieber, Lindor Lifts Cleveland

[longstrangetrip]

 

Well, a new pitcher is reminded that you don't walk the #9 hitter with a .200 average. He had a tough first inning, and a gem of the run for the rest of the game, until the 7th. Maybe pushing him one too many with a well-rested bullpen and people like Duffey able to pitch multiple innings. Tough loss. But you do have to lose occasionally. Good for the rookie, but probably not enough to keep him from going back to the minors when Pineda returns. 

True, rosterman.  But in all fairness to Smeltzer, it looked to me like ball 4 to the #9 hitter was clearly a strike.   I generally don't complain about umpiring because it tends to even out over the course of a game,  but I thought the plate ump was giving Bieber strike calls all night on balls outside the zone, and didn't reciprocate for Devin.  

 

All in all I was quite impressed with our young pitcher.  Yes, he doesn't have big league velocity on his fastball, but the sharp angle of his breaking ball makes it extremely difficult to hit (and frankly, sometimes difficult for an umpire to assess whether it's a strike as it crosses the zone).  I think he has a bright future.  

[MMMordabito]

 

But in all fairness to Smeltzer, it looked to me like ball 4 to the #9 hitter was clearly a strike.  

 

Concur ... Garver setting up in pipeshot territory on the next pitch didn't help either.

[Aerodeliria]

almost all of it, interestingly enough, was from the first inning where he threw about 20 pitches and more balls than strikes. They had the shift on the entire inning and he was asked to pepper the inside only,

I could only tune in to MLB.com after the game had been tied. I was quite surprised he was still in for the 7th inning myself. Five hitter...too bad they were all homers. Edited June 5, 2019 by Aerodeliria

[Dantes929]

 

Wait, Pineda is better than Smeltzer right? Smeltzer = Tommy Milone? Am I missing something?

Milone was 47-38 in his career with a 4.41 ERA.    Not Cy Young but his career average ERA is better than 9 of the pitchers the Twins have put out there this year.    Milone gave up 4.5 runs a game and the Twins score almost 6 runs a game.   The math doesn't work out so bad for a 5th starter.      

[Cap'n Piranha]

I'm not too concerned with the pitching, this is a chance to see what our depth looks like should we need to use internal options to replace injured/ineffective starters.  I'm not even concerned about the offense for the rest of the season.

 

What I am concerned about with the offense is a potential vulnerability based on it's philosophy.  The 2019 Twins are like a boxer who has a huge uppercut, and therefore becomes a knockout artist.  If the punches are landing, and usually they are, you're going to be unbeatable.  But if you face someone who never gives you that opening, what's the fall back?

 

Last night, Bieber was at 36 pitches through 2 innings, and 67 through 4.  He somehow pitched into the 8th.  In the first game of a series, getting to the bullpen is a good thing.  I would have liked to see a more patient approach in innings 5 and 6 on a guy who was at 60% strikes on the night

[SwainZag]

Wow, we sure turned on Smeltzer didn't we?  Last time we couldn't believe he got pulled so quickly and now he's no good and got left in for way too long.  Very much a "what have you done for me lately" crowd.  He got beat by Lindor twice, that will happen, the guy was a Top 10 MVP candidate the last 3 years.  Smeltzer wasn't great, but you aren't going to win many ballgames scoring 2 runs on 5 hits.  Let's get um today.

[jmlease1]

felt like Smeltzer was getting squeezed a bit early by the home plate umpire; he had a few borderline pitches go the other way that Bieber was getting as strikes, but overall his command just wasn't as good as it was in his first start. Until he got chased late, he still really only made two mistakes, and they were to a guy who is pretty damn good. It'll happen.

 

He's an interesting pitcher. Hopefully he learned a few things that he needs to work on and can go back to AAA and get after it again and be ready for the next opportunity. He's got some ability, and while I don't ever see him as a guy who will be a front end starter, he could be valuable chewing up innings on the back end.

 

The offense didn't do much to pick up our starter either. When a team averaging 5.9 runs per game only scratches 2 past the plate, it might just not be your night.

[Aerodeliria]

Completely off-topic: I got a chance to watch the Yomiuri Giants and the Rakuten Eagles for the last three innings tonight. Our old 'friend' Alan Busenitz came in to try to hang on to a 2-1 lead in the eighth inning. After recording one out, he had a tough luck inning started by ground ball single between 1st and 2nd. Then, he got another ball chopped to the left of the mound, which he tried to glove--a mistake--it hit off the end of his glove and carommed into right field (it would have been a pretty easy doubleplay if he hadn't tried to stab it). Runners were at the corners. The next hitter grounded the ball in the hole but the shortstop fielded it nicely. It also looked like it was going to be a doubleplay, but the shortstop's plant foot slipped on the damp grass and his throw pulled the 2nd baseman off the bag. Tying run scored. The next batter grounded into the inning ending doubleplay.

 

He ended up getting the win, however, as Rakuten rallied for two runs in the bottom of the eighth.

 

Just thought I'd let the faithful know how one of their own is doing. He's been quite a good pitcher for the Eagles and looked sharp despite giving up the tying run.

 

Sorry for the long post.

[PDX Twin]

 

I think the major difference today was his inability to command the zone. His strike rate was 20% lower than the last time out.

 

And part of that may have been the instability of the zone itself. I don't remember a game in which there have been more pitches on which the umpire disagreed with the TV tracker.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And part of that may have been the instability of the zone itself. I don't remember a game in which there have been more pitches on which the umpire disagreed with the TV tracker.

Yeah, last night was pretty bad and I almost never complain about umpiring.

[laloesch]

 

I missed Smeltzer's first start, but saw most of the game last night. I think he's showed enough to be first in line when there's a starting vacancy (rainouts, injuries), but with less than dominating stuff, he needs to have good command and keep ahead of counts. Smeltzer isn't going to give up four homers every start, but  he's a far better pitcher when he's pounding the strike zone.

 

From what i've seen of him he doesn't have the "heat" to blow hitters away with his fastball so that means pin point accuracy, deceptive delivery and good offspeed stuff to compensate and get guys out multiple times through the order. Not really sure he's got enough to be a starter in the major leagues but time will tell.

[bighat]

 

Completely off-topic: I got a chance to watch the Yomiuri Giants and the Rakuten Eagles for the last three innings tonight. Our old 'friend' Alan Busenitz came in to try to hang on to a 2-1 lead in the eighth inning. After recording one out, he had a tough luck inning started by ground ball single between 1st and 2nd. Then, he got another ball chopped to the left of the mound, which he tried to glove--a mistake--it hit off the end of his glove and carommed into right field (it would have been a pretty easy doubleplay if he hadn't tried to stab it). Runners were at the corners. The next hitter grounded the ball in the hole but the shortstop fielded it nicely. It also looked like it was going to be a doubleplay, but the shortstop's plant foot slipped on the damp grass and his throw pulled the 2nd baseman off the bag. Tying run scored. The next batter grounded into the inning ending doubleplay.

He ended up getting the win, however, as Rakuten rallied for two runs in the bottom of the eighth.

Just thought I'd let the faithful know how one of their own is doing. He's been quite a good pitcher for the Eagles and looked sharp despite giving up the tying run.

Sorry for the long post.

 

"damp grass"? Honestly I had no idea they had outdoor baseball in Japan. Every single highlight I've ever seen in my entire life has been from inside a dome.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

From what i've seen of him he doesn't have the "heat" to blow hitters away with his fastball so that means pin point accuracy, deceptive delivery and good offspeed stuff to compensate and get guys out multiple times through the order. Not really sure he's got enough to be a starter in the major leagues but time will tell.

 

yeah, he's not going to pitch much in the mid-90s... he does seem to get the Ks though... at least in small samples. 

[joefish]

Yesterday we sucked. Kepler looked helpless. Cruz looked as bad as he did before the IL stint. The offense was offensive. Everybody. That should be a rarity for this lineup against a mediocre pitcher like Cy Bieber.

[MNT1996]

 

Yesterday we sucked. Kepler looked helpless. Cruz looked as bad as he did before the IL stint. The offense was offensive. Everybody. That should be a rarity for this lineup against a mediocre pitcher like Cy Bieber.

 

Bieber is a good pitcher and definitely not mediocre. He's arguably Cleveland's best pitcher. Just gotta tip your cap to them and say they pitched better than we did.

[Monticore]

Knew when he walked the #9 hitter he didn't have it.

[Jham]

Wow, we sure turned on Smeltzer didn't we? Last time we couldn't believe he got pulled so quickly and now he's no good and got left in for way too long. Very much a "what have you done for me lately" crowd. He got beat by Lindor twice, that will happen, the guy was a Top 10 MVP candidate the last 3 years. Smeltzer wasn't great, but you aren't going to win many ballgames scoring 2 runs on 5 hits. Let's get um today.

I'm not sure anyone turned on him. I think maybe some turned on Baldelli. I was surprised he came ot for the 7th. He had walked a guy on 4 pitches as I recall, in the 6th before getting a double play. A bounce off his emotional debut was expected and he pitched pretty well to keep us in it without his best stuff. The rest of the team including the manager did him no favors, imo.

[Danchat]

Apparently Carrasco won’t be starting tonight’s game as he’s been diagnosed with a “blood condition”. The Indians are out of starters with so many injured now...

[Doomtints]

 

From what i've seen of him he doesn't have the "heat" to blow hitters away with his fastball so that means pin point accuracy, deceptive delivery and good offspeed stuff to compensate and get guys out multiple times through the order. Not really sure he's got enough to be a starter in the major leagues but time will tell.

 

Isn't that the profile of 3/4 of starters?

[ChrisKnutson]

Completely off-topic: I got a chance to watch the Yomiuri Giants and the Rakuten Eagles for the last three innings tonight. Our old 'friend' Alan Busenitz came in to try to hang on to a 2-1 lead in the eighth inning. After recording one out, he had a tough luck inning started by ground ball single between 1st and 2nd. Then, he got another ball chopped to the left of the mound, which he tried to glove--a mistake--it hit off the end of his glove and carommed into right field (it would have been a pretty easy doubleplay if he hadn't tried to stab it). Runners were at the corners. The next hitter grounded the ball in the hole but the shortstop fielded it nicely. It also looked like it was going to be a doubleplay, but the shortstop's plant foot slipped on the damp grass and his throw pulled the 2nd baseman off the bag. Tying run scored. The next batter grounded into the inning ending doubleplay.

He ended up getting the win, however, as Rakuten rallied for two runs in the bottom of the eighth.

Just thought I'd let the faithful know how one of their own is doing. He's been quite a good pitcher for the Eagles and looked sharp despite giving up the tying run.

Sorry for the long post.

Really wish he would’ve stayed because I definitely could’ve seen Buze benefiting from working with Wes. Who knows, perhaps he’ll return next season.

[Aerodeliria]

 

"damp grass"? Honestly I had no idea they had outdoor baseball in Japan. Every single highlight I've ever seen in my entire life has been from inside a dome.

Actually, there are plenty of outdoor stadiums and some of them have no infield grass (like the Hanshin Tigers' home field in Osaka--affectionately known as 'Koshien' which brings to mind (for Japanese folks) the spring/summer high school baseball tournaments which are held there--an interesting phenomenon because the Tigers are forced to play away games for the entire tournament every year, so the professional team has to take a backseat to the high schoolers!!). All of the teams also play a percentage of the their games outside of their home stadiums--maybe like four or six series per year. Specifically, they go to smaller urban areas to play some of their games. Some of those stadiums are really not that great. Last year, I went to one game of a three game series featuring the Yomiuri Giants and the Chunichi Dragons. They played at a local stadium about 10 kilometers from where I live. I wouldn't say the field was terrible, but there was no infield grass and the grass in the outfield became extremely slippery over the length of the game (a couple of players slipped). We left early because it was quite a cold evening and the Giants were clobbering the Dragons. I think the score was something like 19-3 in the sixth inning, so there was no reason to stay and freeze to death (and suffer additional humiliation).

[Channing1964]

Cruz looked rusty.He might have some additional rough ABs in the next couple of games, dude's been out a month. The good news is that he's back! In the long run his presence is a huge plus for this team. I think we need to temper expectations on Garver a bit. He was on a hot streak that was simply unsustainable.

true that but i definitely like the progress Garver is showing

Edited June 10, 2019 by Channing1964